DrewLG said:

hold the test tube at waist level and look down into it.

Click to expand...

Hold the sample IN THE SHADOW OF YOUR BODY at waist level and look down into it...

Sws said:

I need to look more into the CYA testing method to see what people describe as "fully obscure"

Click to expand...

You bought the Standard Sampler, so you have a 50ppm CYA sample that you can use to calibrate your eye.

Wait for a sunny day, then perform the CYA test using that Standard instead of pool water:

1. Fill the CYA test bottle to the 7.5ml line with liquid from the CYA Standard.
2. Add CYA reagent to the 15ml line.
3. Mix for 30 seconds.
4. Wait 2 minutes.
5. Mix again, and fill the CYA test tube to the "100" line.
6. Standing with your back to the sun, hold the test tube at waist level and look down into it. What you see is not obscured enough.
7. Add more liquid, to the 90 line, and look again. That's still not obscured enough.
8. Add more to 80, 70, and 60. Look each time; those aren't obscured enough.
9. Add liquid to the 50 line. Look. What you see now is what you should look for when you do the test for real, with pool water.

Sws said:

Question everything...story of my life. Lol

Click to expand...

I believe we live in a simulation...JK.

We are brothers/sisters of another mother.

Show me/tell me, let me see it for myself. I have been TFP red pilled. My pool and thousands others are proof. Link--How Clear is TFP Clear?

Chlorine can not trigger the formation of antibodies which is what defines an “allergy”. One can get chemical contact dermatitis (itchy skin rash) but that occurs when one is exposed to a chemical irritant (like chlorine bleach used in laundry cleaning). In those cases, the exposure level is many thousands of time more concentrated than the level of chlorine in a pool. If a person were truly allergic to chlorine, they’d likely die because the human body uses chlorine as both a chloride ion (nerve conduction) and as a reactive chlorine species in immune mediated responses to pathogens. It’s simply not a thing.

As others have alluded to, people can developed respiratory and dermal sensitivities to chlorinated by-products of disinfection and oxidation. Chloramines can be very irritating to most people.

Swimming pools that are improperly cared for, especially true in water parks and community swimming pools, can have high loads of chloramines. That is the “nasty chlorinated swimming pool” smell that everyone detests. Go to an indoor water park like a Great Wolf Lodge or similar and you will be overpowered by that smell. I find it incredibly irritating and nauseating which is why I rarely go to indoor water facilities.

When properly used in a residential outdoor swimming pool, you would never know that a chlorine pool actually has chlorine in it. At TFP, pool owners are taught how to properly take care of their pools. People are amazed at how my pool feels and they think that because I have a salt water chlorine generator that my “salt pool” isn’t a chlorinated pool. I just chuckle and let them believe what they want.

Baquacil is a money pit. It’s basically hand sanitizer for a swimming pool and it doesn’t work well. And when it fails to work, WHEN not IF, you will not be able to swim in your algae and white water mold infested swimming pool.

Look up Baquacil in the search bar and read horror story after horror story about it. And then be prepared to drain your bank account to use it.

PoolStored said:

As I reflect on this thread. You and I are not much different. I was *PoolStored* for $1500 before I found TFP. I figured, I got a 5 on my AP Chem, I can figure this out....I questioned everything.

Two threads for you....my AHAs!!!

Pool Water Chemistry

This thread presents my findings so far on pool water chemistry including the following: More Accurate Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) to replace Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) Calculation of ppm HOCl (disinfecting chlorine) at various levels of Total Free Chlorine (FC) and Cyanuric Acid (CYA)...

www.troublefreepool.com

I knew I was Pool Stored when...

With the influx of springtime new members rolling in, oddly, I found myself astounded at the number of members that have been Pool Stored. I don't know why it struck me this year, after helping so many that have been pool stored in the past, and even having the username PoolStored, but...

www.troublefreepool.com

Click to expand...

Question everything...story of my life. Lol

I need to see things for myself, even if it means spending hours messing with stuff. I probably did 10 tests just to see how temperature affects CYA readings.

Im done for tonight. Ill play more tomorrow. Thanks again.

ShallowWater said:

Well it got hot today and my guy is getting tired. It'll be tomorrow before he finishes and the fill starts.

Click to expand...

Gotta' take care of the guy...you are a good egg.

proluxline said:

That's why I was thinking of getting an easier solution

Click to expand...

For prosperity, there is easier, then there is accurate. It may be easier, but if the results aren't accurate you will be chasing your tail.

The kits we recommend are more accurate than any other available alternatives; outside a laboratory.

FRAM commercial...pay me now or pay me later. The accurate test kit will save you time and aggravation.

As I reflect on this thread. You and I are not much different. I was *PoolStored* for $1500 before I found TFP. I figured, I got a 5 on my AP Chem, I can figure this out....I questioned everything.

Two threads for you....my AHAs!!!

If you have found value, TFP is a 503c non-profit. We are all volunteers...you might consider becoming a supporter to keep the lights on...

PoolStored said:

The L1 ANSI standard is just not up to the Taylor accuracy. It's not you it is the chemistry and the technology. Trust the Taylor reagents. They are the "gold standard."

I just updated the CYA testing article last fall. CYA test is turbidity test and highly dependent on light. Read the CYA testing article, it will help you.

I conversed with Taylor, over a period of time, to understand. You need to use indirect lighting to see the turbidity. You need strong indirect lighting, with the sun to your back, vial in the shadow of your body. Very roughly speaking, direct overhead sunlight is around 100,000 lux, strong indirect light (i.e. shaded from the sun) is around 10,000 lux, an overcast sky is around 1000-5000 lux but varies on how overcast (which is why a bright white cloud overcast is still OK), indoors is usually < 1000 even in a bright kitchen (more typically 500 lux). Sunlight, even on an overcast day, will provide more accurate results than indoor lighting. See the article for obscured, or order the 50ppm standard (that is how I learned).

Click to expand...

Thank you,

I was just reading that. Ill try outside in the daylight tomorrow. Im also going to buy the 50ppm sample for a solid comparison.

I appreciate the support.

Pasqua said:

We are almost at construction of our pool time and we have a close friend/neighbor that is allergic to chlorine. Wanted to weigh the options between liquid chlorine and baquacil. We are having an 18x36 vinyl pool put in with a sun shelf. Any advice is welcome.

Click to expand...

Stay as far away from baquacil as you can.

99% of the time, people who think they are allergic to chlorine are actually just allergic to the byproducts of inadequate chlorine breaking down waste in the water. The amount of active chlorine in a TFP pool is less than the chlorine found in tap water. If your friend can’t take a shower because of chlorine in the water then maybe it’s good to look at chlorine alternatives.

If you start out with chlorine and follow the TFP recommendations, your friend can try it out and see how it works out. If they really are allergic to chlorine, you can convert to something else easily. But note It’s really hard to convert from baquacil to anything else.

Sws said:

Overall, I'm disappointed in the Sensafe numbers with Taylor reagents being the "gold standard", unless I just need to identify something I did wrong. I also wish the dot disappearing was more dramatic, but maybe its because my CYA was lower than I had thought...or it could be my kitchen light. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

The L1 ANSI standard is just not up to the Taylor accuracy. It's not you it is the chemistry and the technology. Trust the Taylor reagents. They are the "gold standard."

I just updated the CYA testing article last fall. CYA test is turbidity test and highly dependent on light. Read the CYA testing article, it will help you.

I conversed with Taylor, over a period of time, to understand. You need to use indirect lighting to see the turbidity. You need strong indirect lighting, with the sun to your back, vial in the shadow of your body. Very roughly speaking, direct overhead sunlight is around 100,000 lux, strong indirect light (i.e. shaded from the sun) is around 10,000 lux, an overcast sky is around 1000-5000 lux but varies on how overcast (which is why a bright white cloud overcast is still OK), indoors is usually < 1000 even in a bright kitchen (more typically 500 lux). Sunlight, even on an overcast day, will provide more accurate results than indoor lighting. See the article for obscured, or order the 50ppm standard (that is how I learned).

PoolStored said:

Don't be overwhelmed. Do each three times and you will get it. I was the same in the beginning. Take it as a learning experience...new frontiers!

Here are the instructions for each...easy to follow...you can print them out too. Each kit, taylor or TFTESTkits comes with instructions.

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

We have had 100s of thousands learn. Seriously.
View attachment 634210

You will be a pro in a week!

Videos if you like!

K-2006 Complete™ Kit with FAS-DPD

Click to expand...

thank you for the links, I will check the soon and let you know.

Don't be overwhelmed. Do each three times and you will get it. I was the same in the beginning. Take it as a learning experience...new frontiers!

Here are the instructions for each...easy to follow...you can print them out too. Each kit, taylor or TFTESTkits comes with instructions.

We have had 100s of thousands learn. Seriously.


You will be a pro in a week!

Videos if you like!

PoolStored said:

No. (see below).

Send it back. There is a much more accurate and reliable solution (K-1766 see below). More expensive, but I can't tell you the number of times we have issues with digital testers.

Yes. Get one of the recommended test kits. Link-->Test Kits Compared

We don't care what you get:
TF-100 SALT TF-100 Salt Test Kit
TFPRO SALT TF-Pro Salt
Taylor K-2006C and K-1766 (salt). Amazon.com and Amazon.com

They are all the same Taylor reagents. The benefit of the TF kits (separate company and run by a member) is that there is 2.7x the amount of the FC testing solution, and the speed stir in the PRO makes testing accurate and reliable.

We also have had a lot of reports of bad reagents from Amazon because they sit in a hot warehouse and degrade. TFTESTKITS will stand behind any issues and guarantee reagents for a year.

Having a proper test kit will save you $$ and save you from chasing your tail.

Click to expand...

I just skimmed a bit, and it looks a bit complicated for me to read each test and understand how to check it. That's why I was thinking of getting an easier solution. I agree with you that the products you suggested are much better than the ones I mentioned. But I need some videos or guides with clear instructions so I can use all the chemical tests. It’s a bit overwhelming for a newbie like me.

Good catch on the SWG type, I'm on PC, hard to see...my bad.

ajw22 said:

• What is the actual salinity and how are you measuring it?

Click to expand...

His test kit may have old reagents and testing higher...

Sws said:

TF kit and the numbers didnt change.

Click to expand...

I know...right?

Sws said:

I need to look more into the CYA testing method to see what people describe as "fully obscure"

Click to expand...

Print these out. Read them a couple times. You'll get it:

You can also get a standard sample that has 50 CYA..so you KNOW what it looks like...

ajw22 said:

Just connect yellow/green wires.

Black and red wires are used for 12V power to devices that are powered by the RS-485.

Click to expand...

I wonder why Pentair Install Manual mentions connecting Black / Yellow / Green only in the RS-485 section, line #8?

Aquarite in the signature…


This is the basic information we need to know in diagnosing a problem:

• Report all diagnostic readings when you..
  • Move the switch from auto to off and check all of the readings.
  • Move the switch back to auto and recheck the readings.
  • Move the switch to off for a minute and then back to auto and recheck the readings.
• What are the first seven characters of the cell and box serial numbers?
• What is the actual salinity and how are you measuring it?

proluxline said:

Do you think that’s still accurate enough?

Click to expand...

No. (see below).

proluxline said:

For the salt level, I used to use strips, but today I ordered this one:

Click to expand...

Send it back. There is a much more accurate and reliable solution (K-1766 see below). More expensive, but I can't tell you the number of times we have issues with digital testers.

proluxline said:

Do you think there’s any other test kit I should have?

Click to expand...

Yes. Get one of the recommended test kits. Link-->Test Kits Compared

We don't care what you get:
TF-100 SALT TF-100 Salt Test Kit
TFPRO SALT TF-Pro Salt
Taylor K-2006C and K-1766 (salt). Amazon.com and Amazon.com

They are all the same Taylor reagents. The benefit of the TF kits (separate company and run by a member) is that there is 2.7x the amount of the FC testing solution, and the speed stir in the PRO makes testing accurate and reliable.

We also have had a lot of reports of bad reagents from Amazon because they sit in a hot warehouse and degrade. TFTESTKITS will stand behind any issues and guarantee reagents for a year.

Having a proper test kit will save you $$ and save you from chasing your tail.

Pesh said:

Thanks for prompt reply.

I'll get the heater powered correctly tomorrow AM but leveraging the Line side of my relay. That will be fairly easy and clean.

With respect to IntelliCenter... Looks like I have some rewiring to do. It certainly seems like the RS-485 connection is more functional than the Gas Heater J2 allowing for more info/control thru IntelliCenter.

So I believe I need to:
1. Restore the Fireman's Switch by wire-nutting the spliced wired back.
2. Move my 4-conductor "control wire" to the RS-485 connector on the MT400, but only use Black / Yellow / Green (I wonder why not Red)
3. Move the other end of the "control wire" from J2 to a COM Port and use only use Black / Yellow / Green
4. Reprogram IntelliCenter fro MasterTemp instead of Gas Heater.
5. Fire the bad boy up!

Click to expand...

Just connect yellow/green wires.

Black and red wires are used for 12V power to devices that are powered by the RS-485.

I was able to play with the TF kit tonight with Taylor reagents.

Results are as follows with Sensafe on the left and TF on the right. Its my first time using the TF so there may be human error here, but I did repeat some tests with the TF kit and the numbers didnt change. Updated with a Leslies test on the right.

Alk 100 70 59
Calcium 110 225 137
FC 6.6 9.5 7.0
CC .3 0. 0
TC 6.9 9.5. 7.0
CYA 43 30/40ish 40


I need to do them over in sunlight. I need to look more into the CYA testing method to see what people describe as "fully obscure" i was able to see a shadow of the black dot for probably the whole test with a warm sample and a around 40 with a cold sample.

Overall, I'm disappointed in the Sensafe numbers with Taylor reagents being the "gold standard", unless I just need to identify something I did wrong. I also wish the dot disappearing was more dramatic, but maybe its because my CYA was lower than I had thought...or it could be my kitchen light. Time will tell.

PoolStored said:

You got it. Thanks for the support. TFP has saved me thousands. No joke.

Now, back to testing. How are you testing your water?

On pool math, use your TFP login and password. Enable sharing with TFP...then we can click on your name and see results. To store results, you need the subscription...it $8 per YEAR to keep a log of tests and chemical additions. Free versions saves only the last results.

Click to expand...

The testing is still in progress. I used to have some old test kits, but some are expired and others got lost! I was going to ask how to test FC—mine is an old 2-color dye test kit. Do you think that’s still accurate enough?

For the salt level, I used to use strips, but today I ordered this one:
Salt Level Test Kit.

I know you might be a little disappointed with all these digital versions, but I’m going to give it a shot and see if it works.

For CYA, I also ordered a refill agent since I’m out of it:
CYA Refill Agent.

Do you think there’s any other test kit I should have?

ajw22 said:

1. Use RS-485 control. Read Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

2. Yes. Connect to LINE screws.

Click to expand...

Thanks for prompt reply.

I'll get the heater powered correctly tomorrow AM but leveraging the Line side of my relay. That will be fairly easy and clean.

With respect to IntelliCenter... Looks like I have some rewiring to do. It certainly seems like the RS-485 connection is more functional than the Gas Heater J2 allowing for more info/control thru IntelliCenter.

So I believe I need to:
1. Restore the Fireman's Switch by wire-nutting the spliced wired back.
2. Move my 4-conductor "control wire" to the RS-485 connector on the MT400, but only use Black / Yellow / Green (I wonder why not Red)
3. Move the other end of the "control wire" from J2 to a COM Port and use only use Black / Yellow / Green
4. Reprogram IntelliCenter fro MasterTemp instead of Gas Heater.
5. Fire the bad boy up!

aztony said:

I conducted a sodium chloride test

Click to expand...

How old is your K-1766...salt reagents tend to go bad more quickly than others. When they are bad, you get a higher result on your salt test. I had a reagent set that was "unexpired," but it read high and I knew it. Got new reagents and the results were lower.

What is the brand and model of the SWG?
How do you clean it? If you use muriatic acid, that is one of the quickest ways to kill the cell...it removes the ruthenium oxide that makes chlorine. Suspend the use of acid in the future.
Post any pictures of stickers on the cell.
Likely dead...but let's troubleshoot.

On the cleaning side, follow this in the future:

You got it. Thanks for the support. TFP has saved me thousands. No joke.

Now, back to testing. How are you testing your water?

On pool math, use your TFP login and password. Enable sharing with TFP...then we can click on your name and see results. To store results, you need the subscription...it $8 per YEAR to keep a log of tests and chemical additions. Free versions saves only the last results.