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Featured TFP Pool of the Month (December 2022); Theme - Holiday Feel

1. On the first of each month, a contest "theme" will be announced (i.e. water clarity, family fun, decking, custom features, lighting, scenery, etc)
2. Members have 10 days to upload ONE image for consideration; Photo must be related to the thread titled theme for that month.
3. Per general TFP rules, nothing profane, political, or insulting.
4. The first 10 days is the submission period. Posts are limited to ONE image ONLY. No discussion posts yet. This will make viewing much easier for all.
5. Days 11 - 15 the thread will be locked and is for voting only. No more uploads. Viewers now have a final opportunity to vote (or modify their selection) for their favorite upload.
6. Members are encouraged to use an emotion icon ("Like" or "Love") to vote for their favorite upload; it will be tough, but select only one favorite.
7. On day 16, emotion Likes/Loves will be tallied for a winner. In the event of a tie, we will create a poll on the thread to make a final selection.
8. Once a winner is announced, the thread will be unlocked and comments/discussions are welcomed. Winner and nominees can tell us all about their pool/photo/event.
9. A member can only be selected as winner once per calendar year.
10. Winner will receive a $50 gift certificate from tstestkits.net! Oh, and maybe some bragging rights. :poke:

This should be fun. Showcase your backyard/pool holiday decor. Let’s see those pics! Have fun and good luck to those who apply!

Copper(?) mystery... need advice

Hi! Looking for advice to understand if I'm doing anything incorrectly. A little background...

We live in the Phoenix area and we have a pool that completed build in Aug. 2020. Over the course of the last 2+ years, I've done all of my own maintenance and kept the water chemistry in balance. I monitor our pool frequently and the water has always been prestine (with the exception of a major dust storm or three). We have a SWG and I never use shock products or tabs, only liquid chlorine if necessary (exception to tab usage is when our SWG died prematurely towards the end of summer and needed a quick stop gap for a few weeks until replacement). Due to the SWG, our pH rises constantly so it's always a battle to keep it in check but not surprising. Our fill water is no better since it usually comes out of the tap at about pH of 8. Since our fill water has high calcium content, our CH has also increased over the last two years and the last reading was about 1400 ppm. I know that's high but I mainly monitor to keep my CSI in check so I never suffer the scaling effects that so many people in Phoenix have issues with. All that to say that the pool water never has an issue going acidic... it is always high so I generally fight to keep calcium scaling and I'm never concerned with etching issues.

That being said, our builder had to drain our pool yesterday for a repair to fix a rusting rebar stain. Once I drained the pool, I immediately noticed that there is a general blusish-green cast over many parts of the pebble plaster surfaces. It was widespread and almost blotchy in some spots. You can't really see it much when the pool is filled because we have a very light/white color pebble and the blueish-green blends in with the water. The difference is very noticible in the repair patch since it's white compared to the surrounding pebble. The tech said that it's very likely the copper is being etched away from the heater core due to acidic conditions and depositing itself on the pebble. This is where I scratch my head in disbelief because I KNOW for a fact that my water never drops below pH 7. I'm constantly battling to control rising pH, not falling!

I'm out of ideas as to where the copper came or is coming from. Our town water quality reports that the copper in the water is 0.17 ppm so it can't be the fill water. Any ideas? I'm just worried that our heater core is somehow disintegrating for some reason.

Thanks in advance for your help!


Trouble with Jandy 4724 valve and 2" PVC

Re-plumbing my pad and bought a bunch of Jandy 4724 valves to try for the first time. I'd been under the impression that 1-1/2" would go on the inside and 2" on the outside, but while the 1-1/2" fits snugly inside, the 2" looks like maybe you have to use a coupler for it since it's a very similar outer diameter to 2" PVC? I say "similar" because when I put a coupler on there it slides very loosely. Do I just glob a ton of cement on there and trust it to fill in all the gaps?

I also bought the 7235 1-1/2" or 2" check valve and a 2" coupler seems to fit snugly on that one, so I'm a little confused at why it's so loose on all the 4724 valves. Is there a different way these attach to 2" PVC rather than standard couplers?

Featured Waiting for the freezing weather

Last year in TX we had record freezing weather with periods of grid downtime. We are a new time and first time pool owner. One month in! Our pump equipment is lower than our pool by several feet. We were told as a result of the equipment location, we will not be able to drain our pumps if freezing weather and electric will be out for hrs or days. Is this true? Does anybody have this situation and if so, any recommendations or suggestions? I have an electrician coming after the holiday to take a look at hooking up a breaker for a portable generator. But is this correct about not being able to drain our pumps? IM thinking about buying some insulation and heavy outdoor water proof blankets. Overkill? Tks all!

Freeze Prevention - Pentair Screen Logic and SLConfig - How to set the pump speed?

Hey guys, new home, new pool, have not updated signature yet.

The pool company has the freeze pump setting to run at 3450 RPM, which is overkill, but I can t for the life of me find where to control it.

any help would; be appreciated, I would dhtink just 1000RPM to keep the water moving is enough but open to feedback on that too!

TSPoolSupply.com - Vendor?

Anyone used TSPoolsupply.com before? I know there are alot of "middleman storefronts" out there that are more of a front than a storefront. However looking over this site is appears to be a legit e-commerce arm of Shasta Pools out of Arizona. I'm looking for a 342001 or a 343001 and they are the cheapest I can find online (Sta rite by Pentair SuperMax 2.2THP VS Variable Speed Pump 343001)
Contact Phone number and address both match back to Shasta - Career Page links over to Shasta website and the AZ Record of Contract (ROC) numbers match up as well.

Just want to be doubly sure before I get duped and have to fight with a CC company.


Hayward heater F400FDN problem

I have been having trouble with my pool/spa
Hayward H400FDN heater the past few months. It started out as an intermittent problem but has progressed to complete fail somewhere. When I turn the heater on the fan activates and heater fires and seems to lite but goes out within 3-4 seconds. No codes are showing. I have replaced the flame sensor and the board but still having the issue. It is very difficult to find anyone to come out and work on Hayward products in my area. I am pretty handy when it comes to testing components if anyone has any ideas. I am completely stumped on what to do next. I have a video of the cycle but not sure how to post it. [/YOUTUBE]

Jandy 2 Speed Pump Wiring

I have the Jandy two speed pump listed in my signature. I want to take it off the two analog Intermatic timers and put it in two 240v wifi timers. Both WiFi timers are DPDT and are rated at 40amps, 240V. My question is how do I wire the new timers to the pump. I can’t seem to find a diagram for my pump, and I am making all the connections in the sub panel. I did all the preliminary wiring to the panel and mimicked the timer wiring (I believe) . See the image below.

Any help would be appreciated.


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Pool Cleaner Run Time

Do most of you run your pool cleaner 100% of the time that the pump is running, or do you turn it off when the pool is clean, saving wear and tear on the cleaner? I used to turn my off when the pool is clean, and and use only the main drain and skimmer for water circulation. I did find that algae would start growing inside the pool cleaner hose, presumably since it was baking in the sun, and chlorinated water wasn't circulating through it. I would imagine that could introduce algae into the pool. I assume if I didn't want to run the cleaner 100% of the time, I'd have to take the entire cleaner/hose out of the pool so it dries out?

When to Drain Equipment During Power Outage

How long should I wait to drain equipment during a power outage due to a winter storm. Temperatures are expected to be in high teens to low 20s for 48 hours and an ice storm is in the forecast.......which will likely result in a power outage. I have identified the plugs on all the equipment and have read all applicable articles on the site regarding preparing for the cold/storms so I'm prepared but the question is how long to I wait after the power goes out to drain the equipment to prevent freezing. Thanks in advance for your help!

Polaris PB4SQ - Failed, what are you replacing with?

Unfortunately my 3 year old (6 months out of warranty) Polaris PB4SQ started leaking. I bought a seal kit, pulled it apart, and found an explosion of nasty corrosion. It appears the shaft seal let salt water past the “wet” area, then the heat had some sort of chemical reaction causing paint to bubble. I’m going replace seals from my kit, however I have zero confidence this “fix” will last a few months.

My pool builder will happy charge $1,100 to install a new PB4SQ. Since these things are prone to failure, what is everyone buying? BTW, I really like having a pump-driven cleaner vs a robot.

Construction completed - we love our new concrete pool - 8 months start to finish

Hi all,

I posted here back in November with my design and received really great feedback. I created the design myself using Pool Studio and provided the build plans to the PB. I acted as my own GC and managed all the sub-contracting for the patio, pool deck, electrical, mechanical and landscaping while the PB managed the pool tile, plumbing and concrete sub-contractors.

It was a long process with many months of idle time in between inspections, delays, scheduling conflicts, etc. The patience paid off and was well worth the wait. We have been in the pool everyday until 9/10pm since the first week of August. First thing we do after my daughter is home from school and we're done working is jump in the pool. This has been a really great addition to our home and created an outdoor living space we plan to use for many years to come.

18'x40' pool - 7 LED lights - 1 Bubbler with LED
8'x16' tanning ledge - 2 LED lights - 2 Bubblers with LEDs
8'6"x7'6" spillover spa - 1 LED light
WetEdge Primera Stone Grigio Treasure
Natural Gas heater for Spa/Pool
Variable Speed Pump for Bubblers
Variable Speed Pump for Spa/Pool
Salt cell with chlorinator (not started salt yet)
Hayward OmniLogic Smart Panel
Landscaping lights
Pergola with fan, gas grill, and outdoor fridge

Original thread: Raleigh, NC - First time pool build - using my own design I created in Pool Studio - feedback request

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405 Saddletop Pool and Patio_012.jpgpool_ - 4.jpegpool_ - 25.jpegpool_ - 27.jpegpool_ - 31.jpegpool_ - 3.jpegpool_ - 13.jpegpool_ - 16.jpegpool_ - 18.jpeg

OB Fiberglass Pool in South Florida

Hi All,
I'm installing a 11x23 fiberglass pool in our backyard (it's a small one, hence the small pool). I had a contract with a pool company to do it a year and half ago but after 9 months of trying to get through permitting they came back to me and added 50% to the cost so we ended our relationship. After not being able to find someone capable to do the work I decided to do it myself.
I've got an excavator that's experienced with pool digs and a great concrete guy. Right now my biggest problem is the truck arrives on the 16th to deliver the pool and I can't find a way to get it off the truck. All of the equipment for rent and rigging guys are in Ft. Meyers for hurricane clean up (I'm in West Palm). The equipment the excavator has is too small but might be able to lift it and set it in the front yard until we can find something.
I've read for hours on this site and all over so I'm hoping I can pull it off. I've got time and I'm pretty handy so we'll see.

Right now I've been talking to the concrete guy about securing the collar. We're pouring all at once (collar and patio). No pavers, it'll be concrete all the way to the water. My mfr says we 'may use 3/8" rebar at 90 degrees to secure the lip to the concrete.' I've read on here about using fiberglass pins. Anyone know of anywhere I can get more info on that or pick up some of the pins? From what I've seen it seems like a better plan than the rebar.

I'll try to keep up with this thread as I go along so maybe something I learn along the way can help someone else down the road.

Thanks to everyone on this site for all of the info. I've learned a ton over the past few months and I'm sure the learning is just starting.

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New pool build with contemporary grotto

Screenshot_20221015-135455_Gallery.jpgWildman, Konrad 2_007.jpg
New pool build/owners here and are working on getting the contract in place. Have a things to work out before we go forward, mainly with the grotto. Here is a picture of the design. As pictured, the grotto is showing travertine stairs and top decking. In the contract it is shown as spray decking for the stairs and grotto top. When mentioned to the PB they said the travertine would be too slippery and not be recommended but they would include it if we desire. Do you all have any recommendations for which direction to go. For pure cosmetics, I would like travertine. If the coping is travertine around the pool, I dont see how the stairs and top would be any different.

Is there anything else in the equipment that seems off or anything else to be looked at? Thanks in advance!

Old Hot Springs Spa needs electrical help

Hoping someone can help save my old Hot Springs spa!

Following a recent power surge, my 30A GFCI breaker tripped. After resetting this, maybe 15 minutes later, the house 50A breaker tripped. I opened up the spa IQ2000 control box to start troubleshooting and was surprised to find my heater was "stuck" in the on position. The heat control is an old rotary type; normally when rotated full CCwise, relays click off. Since this surge, they're full on. I tried replacing the control, but still get the same heat full-on problem.

Does this mean my old motherboard toast? Is there anything else that might be the problem? The motherboard is now obsolete, so a major upgrade would be needed if that's the problem.

I suspect this problem is not tripping the breaker, but hoping someone with more smarts than me can weigh in.

Thanks in advance for ANY suggestions!!!

Can someone help identify what this is?

I’m still pretty new to pools. This is a fiberglass pool/spa. I recently changed all the grids filter is pretty much brand new it’s a FNSP 48. I can brush it, shock it, and vacuum it out and it will still come back minutes later. It clouds up like dirt after brushing it. Equipment is a pretty simple set up. Also included photo after it’s been vacuumed and brushed.EF4C54C9-92A4-4707-8661-3BAB04663AD3.jpeg


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VSP issues

I have a Pentair Intelliflo VS3050 that was installed in 2010 (model with control pad but now LCD screen) controlled by a Suntouch. It stopped working over the weekend. When I flip the breaker off and then on again I hear a thunk at the pump but nothing happens. Impeller spins by hand. There is power coming out of the breaker. Any clues before I buy a new pump? Also, I really dislike the Suntouch, do I even need to hook the new pump to the controller or are the onboard controllers enough. I have a 24,000 gallon pool with the Intelliflo and a 3/4hp booster for the Polaris. I'm thinking a 1.5hp replacement would work. Please let me know if I'm incorrect on that assumption. Thanks.

Pentair Spa won't stay on/heated

This is the first winter with our pool/spa. Pool has been winterized and it totally shut down. The spa is set to run/filter most of the day at 80 degrees. When we turn the temp to 104 on the app prior to use, it will heat for a few minutes then shut totally down. We have to keep turning it back on and it's taking forever to heat the spa. Why? HELP!
-Using Pentair ScreenLogic App

I'm SLAMing and desperately need guidance

Hello everyone!

Here is situation:
  1. The pool belongs to my kiddo's school. And I need to be very frugal with money and resources.
  2. The pool is 24K gallons, plaster, multiport valve and DE filter with hard-wired (or hard-plumbed?) waste line.
  3. It is 30 minutes drive from my house, so my hours with it are limited to 8a-3p, maybe till 5pm.
  4. I've began SLAMing Oct 31.
  5. Pump ran 24/7.
  6. I've added chlorine at least twice almost every day.
  7. I've brushed the pool with stainless steel brush every day.
  8. The filter develops high pressure (35 psi) about 30 minutes or so after wash and DE reload. I assume it gets full of crud that quickly - I started with vivid green pool.
  9. When filter gets full, the flow goes to almost nothing. I have flow gauge and there's nothing from returns.
  10. At this point I switch pump to recirculate, and wash the grids.
  11. 5 days into SLAMing, I found a crack in the manifold. I patched it with JB Weld Plastic Weld (2 parts clear epoxy) and let it cure over the weekend. I ran it again once (same 30 minutes until pressure goes to 35 psi) and the crack opened up again.
  12. At the same time, I found broken handle spring and bad spider gasket in multiport valve. It has been leaking DE back into the pool during backwash and it has been leaking water into waste line.
  13. New spider gasket, spring, spring o-rings installed.
  14. Return lines were checked by plugging all returns but one and recording the flow. The flow to farther return ports is a little less: 75 gpm vs 80 gpm on closer ports.
  15. There are 5 return ports with eyeball covers.
  16. I have lost my head after few days of no progress so I added borax at a wrong time.
  17. And I've tried clarifier in the pool after good results in test bucket. Without filter running, it didn't help.
  18. Logs: PoolMath Logs
  19. I have TFT-100 test kit.
What do I have now:
  1. The water is much lighter, but has green hue and is very murky.
  2. I am losing FC so there's live algae in there.
  3. I can see few spots in shallow parts but it feels that I still have a big infestation. But I can't see other hideouts because the water is opaque, so I just brush and focus really hard scrubbing on one section a day.
  4. The stairs have visible algae spots so they get brushed hard every day.
  5. The filter can't be run overnight.
  6. I can't keep washing and adding DE few times every day - it takes a lot of water and about $8 worth of DE every time.
  7. Water is about 70F.
  8. When I figure out how to share my logs, I'll add them to this post.
  1. Did I miss some info about DE filter usage during SLAMing?
  2. I speculate that filter clogging up this quickly have caused the crack and I'm afraid to break new manifold the same way with my improper method.
  3. Without constant filtering and with huge amount of crud floating in the water, would it be more practical to use floc, vacuum to waste and then keep going with SLAMing and brushing where I can see algae spots? Loss of water feels like a moot point as I will be losing it by daily washing of filter grids. Besides, I'll save some on not running the pump for one night.
  4. I'm also considering putting on full wetsuit and going into the pool. I'll feel slimy spots with my feet and will be able to do intense brushing at those spots.
  5. I'm open to suggestions of experienced users. The above is just what I can come up with in my ignorance.
Thank you for all and any help!
Feeling the profound depths of my ignorance, yours truly,
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Progress but slow as molasses!

The process of building is so frustrating just a complete lack of communication… Going on 4 weeks now since decking was laid still waiting on plaster. Plaster was supposed to be done last week but they “discovered” at 5pm the day before they didn’t have enough 👎. So hopefully Monday after Thanksgiving but I’m not holding my breath! Just needing plaster, finish waterfall and powering up the equipment… Started Aug 22nd

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First tests with proper test kit; and is it time to replace some water?

Hi all,

New pool owner as of July 2022. In other threads, some members advised me to get a proper test kit and to come back with any questions at the time. Well, now is the time and I do have a few questions.

First, my test results using my new TF-Pro, which is so great...

FC: 4.0
CC: 0.5
pH: 7.4
TA: 70
CH: 575
CYA: 90
Water Temp is currently around 47 F

I also tested my water source with the kit and found it to have...
CH: 200
CYA: 0

My CH and CYA levels are most concerning to me right now. I have been using a tablet feeder for chlorination since the pool was new in July, but after reading more about that here and hearing from some of you, I have stopped using tablets and have switched to liquid chlorine to avoid putting any more CYA in the pool.

I know everyone here has advised I should look at eventually switching to an SWG, but assuming that's a bit down the road for me, I'm looking for steps I can take now to get things in line.

My first thought is that I should attempt a partial water replacement -- something I haven't done before. I have been reading about the No Drain Water Exchange here -> Draining - Further Reading -- and I think I could pull that off sometime in the next week.

My thought is to replace 50% of my water. This should bring the CYA down to around 45 and CH to around 375. Those seems like good targets to hit to sort of reset everything, but I'm wondering if there's anything else I should consider before doing this.

@Dirk you were one of the biggest encouragers for me to get to testing, so tagging you here to see if you have any thoughts.

Iron and sequestrants in spa

So I filled the new spa today from my well water and I have that nice clear yellow iron color. I am going to have my water guy install a Penteck DGD-2501 dual gradient filter in a big blue housing so I can use this set up for my every 3 month water changes. In the mean time, any harm in using metal sequestrants? I understand they don't remove the iron long term (...a concern for a pool), but I only need a short term solution (2-3 months) before I dump the water and start over. Thanks.

Also, any health risks or skin reactions common with sequestrants? I could not find any data on this. Thanks again.

CYA Levels: Conflicting Recommendations

Hi all, I spent the last three weeks reading up and devouring as much information as I can about the care of my 14,400 gallon salt water pool, from blogs, YouTube channels, a few books, and then also going back and forth with my own Taylor test kit as well as getting readings from Leslie's pools. With the help of Leslie's I solved a pretty serious algae problem and since then I've been keeping the chemicals pretty well balanced.

There seems to be little controversy over the recommended ranges for most of my water measurements: pH, TA, CH, Free and Total Chlorine.

But what is baffling is the conflicting recommendations about CYA levels.
Orenda Tech and Pulsar Systems, which are concerned about chlorine effectiveness, seem to suggest sticking around the 20-30 ppm (maximum). Other places (Leslie's), websites, and apps (TFP PoolMath for example) seem to suggest CYA levels upwards of 50 ppm.

However, I'm concerned about chlorine effectiveness. Quick google searches on "CYA effects on disinfection" seem to suggest that you get the most bang for the buck (in terms of UV protection) at 10 ppm CYA and above that it's diminishing returns. However, at CYA levels above 20 ppm you lose a lot of chlorine effectiveness for disinfection. Bob Lowry and Orenda Tech suggest that you need chlorine levels to be at least 7.5% of CYA levels, so at 60 ppm CYA you'd already need more than 4.5 ppm free chlorine! Pulsar Systems suggests the same, except they state it by this 14:1 ratio (CYA Effects on Disinfection - Pulsar Systems)

So what am I to think? Right now it's winter and I'm keeping my CYA at 20 ppm, but given that it's hard to lower CYA levels I am scared to go higher and have algae issues down the road. All the research I've done suggested that I'm near the sweet spot, but am I sure? Heck no.


Featured New Salt Hot Spring Grandee

Hi everyone, few weeks ago I bought a Hot Spring Grandee with Salt cartridge and Silver Ion stick.

I had the salt output at 7 at first when they set it up. Everything was good. Been hitting the boost button every time we used it adding chlorine when needed. Then my wifes girl friends were in the tub and even though she told them to not have make up and other products on i think they did and now water is foaming when jets are on. Also i noticed that chlorine is being eaten up too quickly. I've increased salt output level to 9 and been adding chlorine each day to make sure it doesn't completely get to empty. Water is still foamy with jets on. Is it due to makeup products, swimsuits washed with detergent being in hot tub?

I tested the water today with Taylor test kit and my results were:

TA 50
CYA 90
Ph 7.8
Chlorine 5-10
Calcium Hardness 25

Ive been using Spa Guard Chlorinating Concentrate to add chlorine when low, SpaGuard Total Alkalinity Increaser to increase TA when low, SpaGuard pH increaser to increase pH when low.

Should i be using different products to balance water since i never see these products recommended on here? can some recommend them with specific links since i see Dichlor recommended but i don't know what that means. and what levels should i be targeting with the salt system?

Excavation cave-in

After new build excavation but before rebar, we‘ve had heavy rain. The project manager covered the walls with tarps beforehand, but the wind and rain beat them up. One side of the pool’s length is 38 feet and curved, and on this curve will be a low wall with columns and fire bowls. The curved length currently shows as much as 18 inches of erosion in a couple of places. The project manager explained that the crew will put in a piece of plywood between the eroded part of the wall and where the rebar will go in, allowing enough gunite to fully surround the rebar. The gunite will hit the plywood instead of the dirt wall. I’m told this is a common practice in this situation.

My concern is this part: The project manager explained that the decking crew will fill the gap between the eroded wall and plywood with cement before laying the decking. However, I know that the plywood will eventually disintegrate, and a gap will be left in its place. Is this a valid concern, or should I simply let the PB handle it, since they are on the hook for the warranty?

I‘ve received the PB’s quote to expand the arc of the curved length, so that the final excavated wall is a smooth curve and doesn’t require the plywood/cement workaround. It adds $8,000 to the cost. I am sure they would love this, but I don’t want to spend the money unless my concern is valid. Warranty or not, I do not look forward to having rework done if a problem comes out of the plywood/cement workaround.

Your input and guidance about which route is better for me, the owner of this big hole, would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!


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Greetings from California

Hi all, after some issues communicating with my chem and basket guy over the last year and a half, I decided to do weekly pool maintenance.

No disrespect to the people who have been doing this for years or decades, but I figured I could quickly get up to speed enough to do it myself and then learn as I go. I realized there are going to be things I don't know, but I was ready to do it.

So I spent the last three weeks reading up and devouring as much information as I can about the care of my 14,400 gallon salt water pool, from blogs, YouTube channels, a few books, and then also going back and forth with my own Taylor test kit as well as getting readings from Leslie's pools. With the help of Leslie's I solved a pretty serious algae problem and since then I've been keeping the chemicals pretty well balanced.

I joined the forum because I still have some doubts about CYA levels and how I'm going handle the chlorine generation from my SWG once it's summer.

Washing Soda caused PH spike after AA Treatment

I am coming out of my AA treatment and added 1/2 of the amount of washing soda that was recommended by pool math. Checked PH 30 minutes later and the reading is higher than expected. Based on pool math the PH after the addition should have been in the 6.6 to 6.8 range; however, I am getting a reading of 8.4. Is it normal to see that over-shoot like that?
I am using a calibrated quality PH meter and compared the reading to the color test. My meter is accurate.
Should I wait a while or add muriatic acid to get the PH back down to 7.0 [email protected]?