I had to partially drain my ~35,000 gallon pool this year to install new diverter valves so everything was low. Started at 100 & is now 167 after adding 50 lbs. It's almost 4X cheaper to use this than pool store calcium. This is what my local store had in stock when I actually asked for another variant that their web site showed was in stock. Just searched for calcium chloride. I decided to pursue this after reading the TFP Pool Care Basics, Recommended Pool Chemicals for alternatives.

Mattikuss said:

Really? I swear my manual says GPM minimum is 20.

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The manual says 25 GPM. However, each pool and installation is different. Generate enough flow to close the flow switch, whatever flow that may be.

Mattikuss said:

I don’t mean leaves and large debris, but the dust and floating particles that make their way to the bottom, right?

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Most debris will either float and be caught by the skimmer or sink and be picked up by your cleaner, vacuum, or robot. There's very little debris in between. Even if there was, the main drain has weak and dispersed suction.

My HD now Champion MA. Haven't seen HDX MA for quite some time.

Thank you so much for the information! We think that explains the low water flow in our experiments 2 and 3. We will try to do our experiments 1,2,3 without the drain king to see what happens.

We read on the web that filter pressure is high when the pump does not prime only happens when the return line is blocked. The cartridges are new. So we didn't run the pump with no cartridges in the filter. We have Hayward 425 Swim Clear Cartridge filer and Hayward 1hp Tristar pump. The system was fine before but the problem happened (pump does not prime when filter pressure is high) so we changed both the pump and the cartridges and the problem is still there.

Question: can the tree roots squeeze the pool return line but not penetrate it and as a result block the return? Thank you very much!

Pool cam reports... I'm done!



Data points:
Total inches exchanged: 7.5
Total gallons exchanged: 1929
Gallons per inch: 257
Time to fill 7.5 inches: 6 hr 55 min
Average time to fill one inch: 55 minutes

The fill rate seemed to fluctuate across the 7 hours. Either I was using water, or the neighbors were, but something was affecting the pressure (which I think means I need a new house pressure regulator). But I got some "close enough" data points that will be very useful for next time:
I confirmed my ~250 gallons per inch,
and it takes about an hour to raise the pool an inch from my soft water spigot.

Nice that those numbers are easy to remember.
Apologies for the novella, but as I said, there might be something in it that others will find useful.
Stay tuned! Tomorrow I finish the new drip circuit. Fix my filter. Add some CYA (which I've been stalling for the filter cleaning and the water exchange). And, of course, test my CH to see how this all worked out!

Welcome to TFP!

The flow through a Drain King is much less than through an open hose. It’s just a trickle compared to what the pool plumbing can handle, and even the open hose is much less than what the pump puts through the pool plumbing. The pool pump moves somewhere around 10-12 times as much water as a hose can flow. Pressure only becomes an issue when water flow is restricted by things like the filter or pipe size. Volume of water is the key with pool plumbing.

I’m not sure how the pressure gauge reads high if the pump doesn’t prime. With no flow, there should be no pressure.

If tree roots have penetrated the return lines, you’d be leaking water like crazy.

What pump and filter do you have? Has this equipment worked properly for you before, or is anything new?

Can you run your filter with no filter element in the housing?

Dragon Den, robots have a diminish return on investment. The factors that affect its usefulness is the size of the pool, the amout of debris surround the pool, and the season of the year. I'm sure there's other factors. The problem with these robots is that they provide somewhat of a misleading or lack of information in their specifications. For example, a corded robot is never advertised with a cord in the picture. The filters are not specific to microns but are general terms such as coarse, fine, ultra fine, etc. Come on. The opening and filter size is never mentioned. The size of the robot is also almost never shown. Maytronics, for example, as several robots that pretty much do the same thing. The same robot sells retail with a different model number vs online. I know Shark Vacuum is notorious for this practice which makes consumer comparison much more difficult.

In general, the pool vacuum industry is due for an overhaul. The newcomers, if they don't take the bait on buyouts from the bigger established companies, will stand to gain a lot.

Shoot, I meant to do this at about 3.75 inches (or 3.75 hours). I just pulled a sample from the soft water fill hose and tested it for CH. It's still CH zero. I'm at 6" of replacement water, or about 1500 gallons. Nice to know my water softener can handle that. Had I seen any CH at all, I would have stopped the fill and forced the softener to regenerate, then commenced the fill after that. I've had to do that before, when I had to do a bigger exchange. Which is another reason I like to do these smaller exchanges more often.

Anywho, all is well. This will be another data point to record.

Got about another hour and a half to go.

As for "shock" - you noted gallons. But to be explicit, only use Pool liquid chlorine! In the Lakeville area, you have a couple of Menard's within easy distance. Buy their pool liquid chlorine, cheap, strong, and judging by my Maplewood store, very fresh.

Get 3-4 cases from them. Between them and Wal-Mart, you can get all the chemicals you need. One of our major goals is to make it cheap, easy, and to prevent massive amounts of money from flowing in to pool stores for magic potions you never need nor should be putting in the pool.

What specific products have you put in so far? Anything besides pure liquid chlorine?

The best thing you can do for an SWG is to keep your pool water properly balanced. That means making sure your saturation index is in the negative range and you keep your overall CH level as low as you can for your particular fill water profile. Stay away from dry acids (sulfates are bad), never use the BOOST mode on the cell or run it at 100% all the time, never acid clean a cell (use vinegar instead if needed), and bring the cell inside during winter. I like to use borates in my pool water to help control high pH. The better you treat the SWG the longer it will last. Early product failures can’t be completely eliminated and so sometimes you just get a lemon and you have to work through the warranty process to get it made right. Most companies will do the right thing as long as you’re persistent and you can show good faith. No companies want to deal with the cry-babies that complain at the drop of a dime so they put the onerous process in place to make sure that they are getting legit complaints and not just people looking to scam their way to freebie.

You might want to call a place or two, and get a quote on removal. It will be many times what you would expect. There's the heavy equipment, the disposal of all the debris, the proper compaction of the new fill dirt, the permits and inspections your city likely requires. And then there is the relandscaping of your yard, both for the pool area, and all the damage done by the heavy equipment and the places they staged all the materials.
My wife was adamant about filling it in when we got very high quotes for replacing the 6' fence all around the yard. No pool, no need for the fence. Then the bids for filling arrived. We have the new fence, and have done other pool equipment updates. Even planning for big pool disasters, we will still be money ahead over the next many years. Here in Minn., pools aren't the best for resale value. One would think in Florida, that would be the opposite.

So if I run my #8 wire throughout the pool deck should it be buried in the sub grade or does the wire need to be In the concrete ?

I agree with onbalance that the problem of spot etching is usually a plaster quality issue caused the the product or the application.

However, without documentation to establish that the chemistry was maintained properly the entire time, that becomes more difficult to argue.

At this point, draining and polishing with diamond pads might be the best solution.

Then, maintain the chemistry carefully using your own test kit and frequent testing.

Note: Never drain unless you are sure that it is safe to do so.

Welcome to TFP!!!

You need a good test kit. Order that now. Link-->Test Kits Compared
To get over analysis paralysis, order the TF-Pro. Link-->TF-Pro
If you have a Salt Water Chlorine Generator, get the TF-pro SALT. Link-->Test Kits

Download Pool Math. Link-->PoolMath
Configure your pool. Use your TFP Uname/Password. Use it to figure out how to add 5ppm of liquid chlorine PER DAY until your kit arrives.

When your kit arrives, post a full set of results: FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA.

Then, follow the SLAM process to clear the pool...Link-->SLAM Process

Take the union apart just before the skimmer line goes into the pump. With it open, run hose water into it. You should get a good flow out of the other end. You may want to try it in reverse, since it you'd be pushing water through an open pipe, uphill, and instead go from the open pump end of the pipe to the skimmer end. If good here, likely your pipes are fine. Put it back together.

Undo the union on the vertical pipe that comes out of the pump. Run the pump and see if it will prime and pump normally. Yes, you will get a geyser with lots of water all over everything. But you should get a really strong flow out of the pipe, and the pump basket have no or little air after it primes. If not the same or stronger as you are used to seeing from your waste pipe in years past, then likely it is time to take the pump apart, and look for debris in the impellor. They can be pretty narrow, with narrow slots in them that debris plugs up and blocks. Report back if so, and we can help with a "how to". We will need the specific make/model - which is probably on the barcode sticker on the side toward the filter.

If flow is strong, put the pipe back together, and put the Filter handle to waste. Same test - looking for reduce flow from the waste. If so, take the multiport (the six screws) apart. It may be a bit of effort to pull/twist the whole top off using the handle. NO TOOLS! Check again for debris. Put pool lube on the inside spider gasket, and the o-ring around the perimeter of the top, and reassemble.

If the above strong, redo the test again, this time with one of the unions near where it goes back into the ground open. Test with the Multihandle to "Recirc", and see how it comes out of the open pipe. Then stop it, put the handle in the "Filter" position and see again. If bad on Recirc, then it is a matter of taking apart the pipes from the filter to the section inground, and seeing if there is blockage in any section. While a bit of a pain, you have lots of unions, so the job will not be difficult. If only bad when on Filter - then it is time to take apart and check the Sand filter. Report back, and we can help with that task.

A bit odd to see only one pipe out of the ground into the pump, and one return going back into the ground. How many skimmers and deep end drains are there? How many return jets into the pool? Is there anywhere else not yet pictured where there are valves to control flow, if there are either multiple suction inlets, or multiple jets?

I'm at 5" replaced, and it's been five hours. Well isn't that conveeeeenent! I'll be done in 2.5", which is 2 and a half hours, or about 11:08pm. I'm watching on my pool cam. And I can see all the floaties zooming by the ruler. That sump pump is really working well to circulate the water. So yah, I'm pretty pleased with myself!