Replastering, Redecking, Replumbing 20x40 in ground

[arri]

My 33,000 gallon 20x40 in ground that was built in 1973 and fiberglassed in 1995 is getting an overhaul. We are doing architectural work that requires removal of the pool decking as well as relocating the pool equipment pad. The pool leaks heavily at the tile line, the fiberglass is blistering and delaminating, and we would like a plaster finish so there is an opportunity to substantially renovate the pool. Demolition crews will remove the concrete decking and fiberglass in the coming weeks. Then foundation preparations will take place and eventually trenching for a new garage and pool house construction project. While construction is taking place, I would like to upgrade the pool as follows:

1. Decommission existing in ground spa
2. Possibly fill in the steps and put new ones in the shallow end somewhere (existing steps are encroaching on valuable pathway at the main house)
3. Decommission the main drain (temporarily plugging it also slowed existing leakage)
4. Replace or move the West Skimmer that only effectively skims a few days out of the year due to prevailing winds (best brand and features to look out for?)
5. Replace or move the East Skimmer to the East Wall to better capture prevailing breeze
6. Home run both skimmers to new equipment pad for energy efficiency and flexibility (preferred valve size, layout and brands?)
7. Move and home run the returns to better sweep the steps at both ends (brand and size recommendations?)
8. Install automated pool filler (float valve well or timed fill?)
9. Install lighting along North wall (my family wants rgb lighting I prefer white, any brand/system recommendations?)
10. Chip and plaster (architecture supports darker pool to support surface reflections; given how huge this topic is I'll handle it separately)

I am interested in any advice (and/or TFP links) including brands of components (I have no trouble mixing and matching as I have no allegiance and don't anticipate using a control system), pipe sizing, etc. In general I am most interested in durability and maintainability when choosing components.

Our existing Intelliflo VSF pump will be feeding a 48 square foot DE filter (possibly a new one, size and brand recommendations are welcome). Planning to install a bypass valve across our existing 250k btu Hayward heater since we only use it a couple times a year. The new equipment pad is going to be approximately 40' as the crow flies off the North West Corner of the pool. While I've been happy with liquid chlorine injection on our super stable fiberglass pool, plaster will change the chemistry substantially enough I am open to alternatives.

If this topic is overly general I am happy to manage it as a number of individual threads instead.

 

[Bperry]

My 33,000 gallon 20x40 in ground that was built in 1973 and fiberglassed in 1995 is getting an overhaul. We are doing architectural work that requires removal of the pool decking as well as relocating the pool equipment pad. The pool leaks heavily at the tile line, the fiberglass is blistering and delaminating, and we would like a plaster finish so there is an opportunity to substantially renovate the pool. Demolition crews will remove the concrete decking and fiberglass in the coming weeks. Then foundation preparations will take place and eventually trenching for a new garage and pool house construction project. While construction is taking place, I would like to upgrade the pool as follows:

1. Decommission existing in ground spa
2. Possibly fill in the steps and put new ones in the shallow end somewhere (existing steps are encroaching on valuable pathway at the main house)
3. Decommission the main drain (temporarily plugging it also slowed existing leakage)
4. Replace or move the West Skimmer that only effectively skims a few days out of the year due to prevailing winds (best brand and features to look out for?)
5. Replace or move the East Skimmer to the East Wall to better capture prevailing breeze
6. Home run both skimmers to new equipment pad for energy efficiency and flexibility (preferred valve size, layout and brands?)
7. Move the supply lines to better sweep the steps at both ends (homerun the supplies, brand and size recommendations?)
8. Install automated pool filler (float valve well or timed fill?)
9. Install lighting along North wall (my family wants rgb lighting I prefer white, any brand/system recommendations?)
10. Chip and plaster (architecture supports darker pool to support surface reflections; given how huge this topic is I'll handle it separately)

I am interested in any advice (and/or TFP links) including brands of components (I have no trouble mixing and matching as I have no allegiance and don't anticipate using a control system), pipe sizing, etc. In general I am most interested in durability and maintainability when choosing components.

Our existing Intelliflo VSF pump will be feeding a 48 square foot DE filter (possibly a new one, size and brand recommendations are welcome). Planning to install a bypass valve across our existing 250k btu Hayward heater since we only use it a couple times a year. While I've been happy with liquid chlorine injection on our super stable fiberglass pool, plaster will change the chemistry substantially enough I am open to alternatives.

If this topic is overly general I am happy to manage it as a number of individual threads instead.

Consider something other than a DE filter and also consider a salt chlorinator rather than liquid chlorine injector.

 

[arri]

Consider something other than a DE filter and also consider a salt chlorinator rather than liquid chlorine injector.

Thanks! Am definitely considering a salt chlorinator.

I am reading here that cartridge filters will operate more efficiently than DE especially when oversized, but they do not achieve quite the level of cleanliness of DE. That's going to be a difficult decision!

 

[reggiehammond]

Thanks! Am definitely considering a salt chlorinator.

I am reading here that cartridge filters will operate more efficiently than DE especially when oversized, but they do not achieve quite the level of cleanliness of DE. That's going to be a difficult decision!

I don’t recall anyone ever reporting being able to see a difference between DE and cartridge filters. Just get a cartridge filter, DE filters are a thing of the past.

 

[ajw22]

DE filters are a thing of the past.

DE filters have their place if you have a place to dispose of the effluent and no local restrictions on DE disposal.

Things to read that may help you in your decisions...

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pics or drawings of your pool would help us visualize what you are working with.

 

[arri]

I am fortunate enough to have had and will have the ability to dispose of the effluent in the new pad location without local restrictions. DE maintenance has never been problematic for me; however, I am intrigued by the lower maintenance cartridge users extol over DE. It appears the larger Pentair Clean & Clear Plus cartridge filters are most popular here.

All are excellent links that I have and will re-read, thank you. Due to years of industrial and agricultural experience with pumps and plumbing, I am probably more sensitive to the number of elbows and pipe diameter (not to mention length of straight pipe at pump inlet) than the average pool owner. The links are fantastic references to reinforce my plumbing strategy.

I will edit my original message to include the drawing inline instead of attaching it.

 

[Bperry]

I am fortunate enough to have had and will have the ability to dispose of the effluent in the new pad location without local restrictions. DE maintenance has never been problematic for me; however, I am intrigued by the lower maintenance cartridge users extol over DE. It appears the larger Pentair Clean & Clear Plus cartridge filters are most popular here.

All are excellent links that I have and will re-read, thank you. Due to years of industrial and agricultural experience with pumps and plumbing, I am probably more sensitive to the number of elbows and pipe diameter (not to mention length of straight pipe at pump inlet) than the average pool owner. The links are fantastic references to reinforce my plumbing strategy.

I will edit my original message to include the drawing inline instead of attaching it.

My pool will be crystal clear using a sand filter once the pollen stops falling. Any filter around can do a good job if the chlorine is maintained. Not the best light but the robot is 9ft under water today.


If you ever have an algae outbreak is when the DE kinda stinks.

 

[arri]

So lots of preference for the cartridge filter over DE which seems to point toward the Pentair CCP520 from most accounts here on TFP. If we are able to fill in the existing stairs that encroach on our house our preferred replacement is full width steps into the shallow end. That would pretty well require us to keep the nearby skimmer in the same location as it is now so we would only be moving the West skimmer to the North West corner.
For the sake of plumbing runs and accessibility during construction and in the future, ideally all penetrations would be located on the North wall of the pool where there is plenty of future lawn rather than buildings and its the shortest run to the new equipment pad. Four returns should be good, one for deep end step, one for the steps and two in the field. We are anticipating placing three of the nicheless lights along the North wall as well since the existing old style niche at the West wall is blinding to the house.
Any additional advice or pitfalls? I'm meeting with a plaster contractor tomorrow.

 

[reggiehammond]

I'm a little worried about returns and skimmers on same wall with prevailing wind moving laterally.
I would think you'd want the returns on opposite wall to push toward skimmer.

I think you'll end up with a lot of debris on the steps on opposite side from planned skimmer.

Others know more than I do... hopefully they'll chime in.

 

[ajw22]

Show us the specific locations where you intend for skimmers and returns to be placed.

Water flows from the returns to the skimmers and if they are all on the same side of the pool some areas will have little circulation or skimming. Especially if the pool does not have a main floor drain.

 

[arri]

I totally agree having watched the surface scum slide right by the skimmer and would prefer to move the existing East skimmer all the way to the East wall. However, moving the steps to cover the entirety of the East wall precluded that practicality until speaking with the pool refinisher who priced the filling of the steps prohibitively primarily due to the mobilization fees from a gunite crew. I'm not surprised but wanted to explore the possibility of filling in the steps on the off chance it wasn't prohibitively expensive. The new preferred skimmer locations are illustrated below with the only better spot for the Eastern one being on the North wall of the steps themselves. The Western one is still very much up for grabs albeit somewhere along the North wall is generally preferred.
I have placed three returns along the North wall and one in the steps illustrated as yellow dots below.
The plaster refinisher felt my three nicheless lights along the 40' North wall were not sufficient based on his having seven of them along the 49' long wall of his own pool given similar widths so I am now considering five lights there illustrated as purple dots.

 

[ajw22]

The south and west sides of the pool will get little circulation beyond some surface wind.

Why can't you put returns on the south side?

The southwest water will be stagnant.

 

[arri]

The North wall will have by far the easiest access during the construction phase whereas the South wall has by far the most prohibitive access due to close proximity to an existing building. The West and East walls would also be significantly easier to work with than the South one.

An alternative design is to direct all flow from West to East with three returns on the West wall and two skimmers on the East wall. I am not exaggerating when I say there are only a few days out of the year when the prevailing wind direction wouldn't be helping.

My experience with an existing return located on the East wall running lower flow is that it is able to push subsurface water beyond twenty feet even with the surface wind blowing opposite.