Pool mechanical part list

[qwert189]

Hello!

I'm in Detroit, Michigan and am midway through an indoor pool/spa install (I have gunite shell, bonding, and the plumbing to the mechanical room). Unfortunately, my builder has ghosted me the past 7 months, just completely disappeared off the face of the planet even trying to contact him through other side channels like his suppliers/installers.

I've called at least 15 different places at this point trying to get someone to pick up the project, worked through referrals from pool supply companies, talked to pool inspectors for my city, etc. and after 3 months have not been able to find a single company willing to take a project halfway through like this. At this point any referrals I'm getting are to companies I've already called. Honestly, in this market I don't blame them, why pick up the risk on my weird half-finished project when they can they are already making bank and booked solid the next two years on new installs?

Long story short, it looks like I'm going to end up having to finish it myself. I've done probably 100+ hours of researching, talking to retired pool builders, etc. at this point and am pretty comfortable with the whole process at this point. I've also done fairly complex HVAC work (radiant geo loops, etc), and it's not feeling that much more complicated. I'm already neck deep doing a 90% gut remodel of the house where I'm acting as the GC, so I'm fine with figuring it out as I go.

One thing that would really help me out is to see a pad design and bill of materials for a pool setup similar to my own, to make sure I'm not missing anything when ordering all my mechanicals. Given the long lead time I'm seeing on parts, I'd hate to wait 6 months for parts, then find out I forgot some valve or pump and delay the project another 6 months.

My setup is:
13k gallon 14x30' pool
~1000 gallon integrated spa w/ 10 standard jets
3x magicstream laminar deck jets
2x LED lights
1x underwater speaker
2x 4" main drains
1x 4" spa drain
1x skimmer (Pentair Admiral S20)
A couple of supply lines (I forget exactly how many)

Mechanicals
3 HP pentair pump
2 HP silencer air blower
TR60 ClearPro sand filter (w/ glass media)
Pentair intellicenter
Rainbow 320 inline chlorinator
Titanium heat exchanger (TBD) - Pool is radiant heated in shell w/ supplemental 'boosted' heat through geothermally heated exchanger (radiant lines already tested/working)
Auto-cover (from CoverCare)
Some kind of boost pump for pressure side cleaner? (so I can clean while cover is closed)
Backflush valve?
Diverters?
Some kind of electronic valves for the intellicenter to flip pump from spa to magic stream jets to pool supply?
A bunch of PVC elbows, Ts, short lengths, whatever
Auto-fill valves?
Puck 'tower'? (for backup/startup before adding salt)

I'm sure I'm forgetting things after me piecing all this together from my contract, youtube videos, talking to suppliers, and pictures of other systems/pads I've scoured from Reddit, TFP and elsewhere. Just seeing another BOM or detailed pad design would be a huge help. Should be an interesting project either way!

Thanks everyone!

PS, not sure where to even ask this, but if anyone knows a pool builder in the Detroit area (or heck, even remote!) and is willing to do paid hourly consulting just to give me some advice and answer questions I'd love it!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Every pool pad is unique. I think you will get better responses if you post pics of what you are working with and the materials you have or are ordering and we can comment.

Some comments on what you listed....

• 3 HP pentair pump -
  • what model number?
  • Use "2 PACK -CMP Hi-Temp Union 2" inch 2MIP x 2" inch PVC Whisperflo & Intelliflo - 2 PACK" unions.
• 2 HP silencer air blower - you all plumbed with an air line from your spa jets to your equipment pad?
• TR60 ClearPro sand filter (w/ glass media) -
  • why not a large cartridge filter?
  • You have the MPV for the sand filter?
  • We recommend using tried and proven sand over glass media.
• Pentair intellicenter -
  • you getting the IntelliCenter bundle with SWG and actuators?
  • You need 220V and 120V GFCI CBs
  • Get the Pentair or Siemans QPF GFCI CB for the pump - Electrical GFCI - Further Reading
  • You doing the electrical wiring for the Load Center?
• Rainbow 320 inline chlorinator - why? get a SWG.
• Titanium heat exchanger (TBD) - Pool is radiant heated in shell w/ supplemental 'boosted' heat through geothermally heated exchanger (radiant lines already tested/working) - can't help you here
• Auto-cover (from CoverCare) -
  • you installing that or subcontracting the installation?
  • What type of coping over the cover lid?
• Some kind of boost pump for pressure side cleaner? (so I can clean while cover is closed)
  • Polaris PB$-60 or PB4SQ
• Backflush valve? - You mean the MPV on the sand filter?
• Diverters?
  • How many depend on your plumbing design and what pipes have been run to the pool pad
  • POOL/Spa return - 3 way diverter
  • POOL/SPA suction - 3 way diverter
  • Water feature valves
• Where do you need check valves in your equipment?
  • SPA return to prevent water flowing back from spa to pool when pump is off
  • Before Rainbow chlorinator if you insist on using trichlor tablets
• Some kind of electronic valves for the intellicenter to flip pump from spa to magic stream jets to pool supply?
  • Those are acutators which go on top of diverter valves for the IntelliCenter to control
  • You need actuators for POOL/SP return and suction valves and as many water features as you want audiovisual control
• A bunch of PVC elbows, Ts, short lengths, whatever
  • Buy a lot and return what you don't use
  • Make sure you only get Schedule 40 PVC and not DWV pvc
  • A pipe can be dual rated ASTM D 1785 and ASTM D 2665, but it has to say ASTM D 1785 if it's going to be used for pressure.
• Auto-fill valves? How has your shell been plumbed for an autofill?
• Puck 'tower'? (for backup/startup before adding salt) -
  • you have this above as Rainbow Chlorinator. You don't need either with a sWG. Use a tablet floater in the pool.
  • Use Liquid chlorine for backup/startup chlorination

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

PVC Repair - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Liquid Chlorine - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Is this what you are looking for as a detailed pad design or are you looking for what everything does also?

 

[qwert189]

Welcome to TFP.

Every pool pad is unique. I think you will get better responses if you post pics of what you are working with and the materials you have or are ordering and we can comment.

Some comments on what you listed....

• 3 HP pentair pump -
  • what model number?
  • Use "2 PACK -CMP Hi-Temp Union 2" inch 2MIP x 2" inch PVC Whisperflo & Intelliflo - 2 PACK" unions.
• 2 HP silencer air blower - you all plumbed with an air line from your spa jets to your equipment pad?
• TR60 ClearPro sand filter (w/ glass media) -
  • why not a large cartridge filter?
  • You have the MPV for the sand filter?
  • We recommend using tried and proven sand over glass media.
• Pentair intellicenter -
  • you getting the IntelliCenter bundle with SWG and actuators?
  • You need 220V and 120V GFCI CBs
  • Get the Pentair or Siemans QPF GFCI CB for the pump - Electrical GFCI - Further Reading
  • You doing the electrical wiring for the Load Center?
• Rainbow 320 inline chlorinator - why? get a SWG.
• Titanium heat exchanger (TBD) - Pool is radiant heated in shell w/ supplemental 'boosted' heat through geothermally heated exchanger (radiant lines already tested/working) - can't help you here
• Auto-cover (from CoverCare) -
  • you installing that or subcontracting the installation?
  • What type of coping over the cover lid?
• Some kind of boost pump for pressure side cleaner? (so I can clean while cover is closed)
  • Polaris PB$-60 or PB4SQ
• Backflush valve? - You mean the MPV on the sand filter?
• Diverters?
  • How many depend on your plumbing design and what pipes have been run to the pool pad
  • POOL/Spa return - 3 way diverter
  • POOL/SPA suction - 3 way diverter
  • Water feature valves
• Where do you need check valves in your equipment?
  • SPA return to prevent water flowing back from spa to pool when pump is off
  • Before Rainbow chlorinator if you insist on using trichlor tablets
• Some kind of electronic valves for the intellicenter to flip pump from spa to magic stream jets to pool supply?
  • Those are acutators which go on top of diverter valves for the IntelliCenter to control
  • You need actuators for POOL/SP return and suction valves and as many water features as you want audiovisual control
• A bunch of PVC elbows, Ts, short lengths, whatever
  • Buy a lot and return what you don't use
  • Make sure you only get Schedule 40 PVC and not DWV pvc
  • A pipe can be dual rated ASTM D 1785 and ASTM D 2665, but it has to say ASTM D 1785 if it's going to be used for pressure.
• Auto-fill valves? How has your shell been plumbed for an autofill?
• Puck 'tower'? (for backup/startup before adding salt) -
  • you have this above as Rainbow Chlorinator. You don't need either with a sWG. Use a tablet floater in the pool.
  • Use Liquid chlorine for backup/startup chlorination

I appreciate the detailed response! here's a (not great) pic of the mechanical room:
New item by Fletcher Liverance

Here's the pool (The mechanical is under my feet ~10ft to the right)):
New item by Fletcher Liverance

Ignore the giant tank and radiant lines in the mechanical room, that's all for my solar/thermal and radiant stuff. The pool stuff is just that left wall.

The mechanical is in the basement, the pool deep end (6ft) is directly on the other side of that left wall. You can see the the electrical lines coming out of the wall (2x wall light, 1x spa light, 1x speaker, 1x pool autocover, 3x laminar jet, I think the electrician combined some of them together using some exterior junction boxes at the back of the house).

The three flex lines are for each of the magicstream laminar jets (no housing or jet yet, just a 5 gal bucket with hose/conduit coming out of the ground).

The three PVC lines I want to say are the 2x supply + 1x skimmer, but I need to go confirm.

Not shown in the picture are the spa and pool drain lines, and the spa air/water pressure side lines. I'll get a pic of those as well.

I also have a huge 12" and 2x 10" PVC pipes coming out of the wall for a CurrentFlow system just outside the frame, that's completely independent from the pool mechanical though.

----

A few notes on your responses:
* I don't know the exact pump model #, but 3HP Pentair Intelliflow VSP is the original spec, and talking with a few pool guys they seemed to think that was fine
* Yes, the air lines are plumbed to the pad, the jets looked like these (need to confirm the exact size, not sure if they were 1.5") https://www.inyopools.com/Products/02200022044064.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjwt7SWBhAnEiwAx8ZLajI-aqtC9ceoSH41c7Ft2EX8LidowBfB6MifIAyKutnviYa7HhraaxoCprYQAvD_BwE
* Since it's in a basement I wasn't stoked about having to muck with cleaning a large cartridge filter, just backwashing sounded easy to me. That said, I get different recommendations on TR100-C vs TR60, the TR100 is large and would be hard to do maintenance on in the confined space (carrying 600lb of sand around and the big 30" shell), so I dunno, could go either way I guess.
* The MPV would be something like this one I think? https://www.aquapoolstore.com/261055.html I still need to confirm what size inlet/outlet the TR60 has first (hoping the pool parts guy can just match those for me)
* I am doing the load center wiring myself (unless I can manage to find someone to do it, but no luck so far). I redid my 2x 200 amp main panels already for the house, as well as put in a new dual meter pad out by the electrical pole.
* Good notes on all the Intellicenter options, I will need the SWG option and enough actuators. I think I need 5? (3x magicstream, 1x spa vs pool supply, 1x pool vs spa drain, 1x skimmer).
* I also need some kind of electrical hookup between the autocover, thermostats (1x spa, 1x pool) and HVAC units (1x spa shell, 1x pool shell, 1x inline heat exchanger) so that the intellicenter can call for heat and avoid stupid things like the deck jets turning on while the autocover is closed. That's the most error prone/complex thing to order from what I can tell due to the sheer # of options and configurations.
* GFCI breakers sound like a great idea to me.
* Doh! on the Rainbow 320. I think that should be a Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 or equivalent
* Subcontracting auto-cover install to CoverCare
* Lid is using 10x atlas brackets, an angle iron frame, with 1" travertine 16"x24" slabs mounted over the frame to match the deck/coping
* The spa is recessed to fit under the auto-cover, and water level is intended to be 1" below the level of the pool
* I'd prefer no tabs at all, the room is already packed full of equipment. The original pool installer insisted on the Rainbow 320 'just in case'. I think your 'startup with liquid and throw a floaty in the pool' sounds fine to me.

 

[qwert189]

Is this what you are looking for as a detailed pad design or are you looking for what everything does also?

That pic is actually way better than any other pad hookup pic I've seen, it's even got everything labelled which is super nice! Do you happen to have another angle on that 3-4ft to the right? Some of the piping is obstructed. Also that appears to be all manual valves, do you have anything that shows how an intellicenter would be hooked up, or is it essentially identical but w/ actuators attached to the top of the valves?

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

The blue manual valve handles are for the deck jets, since the picture was taken two more actuators have been added for the filter/heater bypass system.
Hope these pictures help.

 

[ajw22]

I appreciate the detailed response! here's a (not great) pic of the mechanical room:

Interesting setup.

Confirm that none of that PEX pipe is for the pool.

Do you have any floor drains in that room? You can't keep your pool equipment from never leaking and spraying water everywhere.

What type of pool heater will you use?

Here's the pool (The mechanical is under my feet ~10ft to the right)):

Ignore the giant tank and radiant lines in the mechanical room, that's all for my solar/thermal and radiant stuff. The pool stuff is just that left wall.

The mechanical is in the basement, the pool deep end (6ft) is directly on the other side of that left wall. You can see the the electrical lines coming out of the wall (2x wall light, 1x spa light, 1x speaker, 1x pool autocover, 3x laminar jet, I think the electrician combined some of them together using some exterior junction boxes at the back of the house).

The three flex lines are for each of the magicstream laminar jets (no housing or jet yet, just a 5 gal bucket with hose/conduit coming out of the ground).

The three PVC lines I want to say are the 2x supply + 1x skimmer, but I need to go confirm.

Not shown in the picture are the spa and pool drain lines, and the spa air/water pressure side lines. I'll get a pic of those as well.

Maybe you can show us a better view of the left wall.

* I don't know the exact pump model #, but 3HP Pentair Intelliflow VSP is the original spec, and talking with a few pool guys they seemed to think that was fine

How many spa jets will you have?

* Yes, the air lines are plumbed to the pad, the jets looked like these (need to confirm the exact size, not sure if they were 1.5") https://www.inyopools.com/Products/02200022044064.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjwt7SWBhAnEiwAx8ZLajI-aqtC9ceoSH41c7Ft2EX8LidowBfB6MifIAyKutnviYa7HhraaxoCprYQAvD_BwE

You going to have the air blower in that basement room?

I don't know how silent that Silencer Air Blower really is in a closed room.

* Since it's in a basement I wasn't stoked about having to muck with cleaning a large cartridge filter, just backwashing sounded easy to me. That said, I get different recommendations on TR100-C vs TR60, the TR100 is large and would be hard to do maintenance on in the confined space (carrying 600lb of sand around and the big 30" shell), so I dunno, could go either way I guess.

Sand filters are low maintenance with backwashing until they are not. The sand can get messed up and need deep cleaning. And be sure to use the proper grade of sand....

Sand Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Check if you have the headroom to lift the top off a cartridge filter and lift the cartridges out. If you do I woudl repfer a cartridge filter with the drain plumbed into a floo0r drain. Then you can drain the filter, open the top, remove the cartridges, and replace then with a clean set of cartridges, reassemble, and turn the pool on. Then youc an take the dirty cartidges out fo the absement to someplace for cleaning.

Cartridge Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

* I am doing the load center wiring myself (unless I can manage to find someone to do it, but no luck so far). I redid my 2x 200 amp main panels already for the house, as well as put in a new dual meter pad out by the electrical pole.

There are bunch of us who have wired up our IntelliCenters and can help you with that when the time comes.

* Good notes on all the Intellicenter options, I will need the SWG option and enough actuators. I think I need 5? (3x magicstream, 1x spa vs pool supply, 1x pool vs spa drain, 1x skimmer).

The standard pool/spa system can control 4 actuators. Suction, return, and two others called valve A & B. If you really need to control more then four then you will need the valve expansion card.

The three Magicstreams will be controlled together with one actuator turning the three on or off together?

What do you think you need an actuator on your skimmer?

I think you just need three actuators - suction, return, Magicstream.

* I also need some kind of electrical hookup between the autocover, thermostats (1x spa, 1x pool) and HVAC units (1x spa shell, 1x pool shell, 1x inline heat exchanger) so that the intellicenter can call for heat and avoid stupid things like the deck jets turning on while the autocover is closed. That's the most error prone/complex thing to order from what I can tell due to the sheer # of options and configurations.

Read this for what you need to do with the autocover and IntelliCenter...

CoverStar Sensor with IntelliCenter?

Good morning! Our pool gets underway tomorrow, and I got to thinking - since we will have a CoverStar auto cover, and since they sell a reed switch to indicate closed/open status, can you hook that up to IntelliCenter? My thought is that it would be nice to automatically set the SWCG to a...

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

With one body or water, one pump and heater, and suction/return actuators you have one thermostat on the IntelliCenter. IT will measure and control the heat on the POOL or SPA at one time.

* GFCI breakers sound like a great idea to me.

Required by NEC.

* I'd prefer no tabs at all, the room is already packed full of equipment. The original pool installer insisted on the Rainbow 320 'just in case'. I think your 'startup with liquid and throw a floaty in the pool' sounds fine to me.

You do not want tabs that have acid, or any pool acid, in an indoor basement room.

 

[qwert189]

Got better pics of the pool mechanical room:

3 new items by Fletcher Liverance

- The first pic shows center of the mechanical room
- 3x giant pipes for the current flow system (independent from the pool circulation stuff, ignored for now)
- 2x 4" drains, left is spa, right is pool (below the big pipes)

- The second pic shows just to the right, where all the main equipment (pumps, filter, heat exchanger, actuators/valves, SWG, anode) will be
- 1x 1.5" for the right side pool return
- 1x 1.5" for the pressure side cleaner
- 1x 2" for the skimmer return
- 5x 1" conduits (3x deck jets, 2x LED lights, 1x spa light, 1x underwater speaker, 1x autocover) They must get combined somehow coming from the pool (there are 3x junction boxes outside)

- The third pic shows the far left side of the mechanical room
- 1x 1.5" left side pool return
- 1x 1.5" spa return
- 1x 2" air

 

[ajw22]

Put a valve on every line running from the pool into the basement.

With the equipment below the pool water will flow into the basement if you open up any equipment for maintenance if you don’t have valves to shut the flow from the pool.

Do not use ball valves which stick, break, and can only be repaired by cutting them out and replacing them. Use all rebuildable diverter valves.

 

[qwert189]

Putting some notes based on comments/questions:
* All the PEX is for the radiant system, no PEX for the pool (only the white PVC is for the pool)
* I think I will control all the magicstream w/ one actuator, I don't see a need to have them do little shows at this point and it wouldn't be too hard to switch that later if I wanted

What do you think you need an actuator on your skimmer?

* I was planning on doing a 2-way actuator on the pool drain, and a 3-way on the spa + skimmer, then a 2-way on the deck jet return and a 3-way on the pool/spa return. That way when I want spa I can turn off the pool drain and skimmer drain and just have the spa drain/return turned on so that I don't dump cold pool water into the spa (and vice versa when I'm circulating the pool). Let me know if I should do something different though.

Collecting all the great advice being taken:
* Put a valve on every line into the basement
* Use Rebuildable diverter valves
* Store no acid in the basement (really I'm not going to store any chems at all down there)
* We will have the floor drain in (you can already see the drain in the pic, it's the 4" PVC coming out of the floor), there's already a sump pump there as well (and there will be a sink for smaller water work that doesn't end up on the floor)
* Use GFCI breakers (per NEC)
* I reviewed w/ Pentair and my supplier which center to hook up (thanks for the links on auto-cover hookup!), supplier recommended an easytouch he had in stock (he says intellicenter are almost impossible to find), pentair said it needs to be an intellicenter so I can control the autocover.

I've been working on a diagram of all the plumbing now as well, will post it when I finish.

One question I had after talking to Pentair and the pool store guy is figuring out how many relays I need. The easytouch he had in stock had 8.

I think I need relays for:
* IntelliFlo Pump
* Spa/skimmer 3-way
* Pool drain 2-way
* deck jets 2-way
* Pool/spa return 3-way
* Silencer blower?
* Heat exchanger? (i.e. 'solar')
* Pool shell heat? (i.e. 'pool heat')
* Spa shell heat? (i.e. in 'spa mode' it should call for heat on a separate relay)
* Auto-cover? (seems like that'd be a separate module w/ its own relays)

I think that means doubly so that the 8 relay easytouch would not work and I'd really want something like 12 relay intellitouch w/ the auto-cover module. Need to figure out a bit more there, I'm still not sure exactly which model/modules I need to do what I want there.

 

[ajw22]

I was planning on doing a 2-way actuator on the pool drain, and a 3-way on the spa + skimmer, then a 2-way on the deck jet return and a 3-way on the pool/spa return. That way when I want spa I can turn off the pool drain and skimmer drain and just have the spa drain/return turned on so that I don't dump cold pool water into the spa (and vice versa when I'm circulating the pool). Let me know if I should do something different though.

That is not the way the system is designed to work.

You have a 3 way diverter valve before the pump suction switching between pool skimmer/drains and spa drains,

And you have a 3 way diverter valve at your returns switching between pool returns and spa returns.

Then you have your SUCTION and RETURN actuators on those valves and plugged into the SUCTON and RETURN actuator sockets on the IntelliCenter.

It is fixed in the IntelliCenter that when in POOL mode water will come from the pool skimmers and drains and go to the pool returns.

In SPA mode water will come from the spa drains and go to the spa returns/jets.

In SPILLWAY mode water will come from the pool skimmer/drains and go to the spa returns/jets.

The EasyTouch or IntelliCenter then has two more sockets to control two additional actuators/valves called VALVE A & VALVE B. There is no easy way to add more then the two additional actuators to an EasyTouch. The IntelliCenter has a valve expansion board to add additional actuators.

* I reviewed w/ Pentair and my supplier which center to hook up (thanks for the links on auto-cover hookup!), supplier recommended an easytouch he had in stock (he says intellicenter are almost impossible to find), pentair said it needs to be an intellicenter so I can control the autocover.

I would wait to get the IntelliCenter. They are around and people are getting them. You need to get on some waiting lists from different sources.

One question I had after talking to Pentair and the pool store guy is figuring out how many relays I need. The easytouch he had in stock had 8.

I think I need relays for:
* IntelliFlo Pump
* Spa/skimmer 3-way
* Pool drain 2-way
* deck jets 2-way
* Pool/spa return 3-way
* Silencer blower?
* Heat exchanger? (i.e. 'solar')
* Pool shell heat? (i.e. 'pool heat')
* Spa shell heat? (i.e. in 'spa mode' it should call for heat on a separate relay)
* Auto-cover? (seems like that'd be a separate module w/ its own relays)

Only switched high voltage devices need relays - pumps, blowers, lights.

Valves controlled by an actuator need an actuator socket to plug the actuator into.

Heaters have a dedicated heat control relay on the board.

Autocover is just a sensor feed from the autocover module.

 

[1poolman1]

Likely you have thought about this, but you make no mention of humidity control for an indoor pool.

 

[qwert189]

Yeah, I have six 'layers' of humidity control. That was one of the areas the original pool guy just said, "I'm not doing anything, go figure it out yourself or hire someone else to do it." so I ended up spending alot of time figuring it out early on and used alot of best practices from commercial natatoriums.

#1 - 7x 8'x8' sliding glass doors that will be left open most of the time
#2 - Paperless drywall (and all surfaces are water safe in the room)
#3 - R10 glass on the windows/doors to keep the window interiors from condensing in winter
#4 - Pool autocover
#5 - Lumus e2 circulator low on the ground passing slow fresh air over the pool surface (to remove chloramines and equalize humidity as long as outside is reasonable)
#6 - 2x 1100CFM (100+gal day dehumidification) dehumidfiers mounted in the ceiling and circulating air high throughout the room

Hoping with all these 'over-engineering' options there I'll keep any sort of mold problems far, far away.