New Pool in South Jersey opinions?

[jkearney30]

Good Afternoon,

I am shopping for an inground pool again and wanted to see what everyone thought about the setup. I appreciate everyone's input! I will be begin the project this fall so I will get the salt water option at bottom.

Pool and inclusions 20’x33’x43-9’’’ Lagoon in ground Pool Pool built with polymer wall structure and insulcrete cement floor
Pool depth 3’-4’’ sloping to depth of choice
Choice of 4 different 27 mil liners or any 20 mil with a border 3 foot walkway of white concrete on all sides
Textured bullnose cantilever coping 4x8 white step or white corner step
1-Pentair Super-flo I-2 Variable speed pump
1-Pentair SD-80 sand filter
1-Pentair Intellibright LED color change pool light
3-skimmers
2-floor drains
4-returns
1 or 2-railing/s at pool entry
1-ladder in deep end of pool
1-Complete maintenance kit with nets, poles, and brushes
1-Winter cover with water bags

Electric connection 100 linear feet of electric utility run to power pool pump and light Electric run beyond 100’ is $12 per foot
Control box with timer for pool pump, service outlet, and light switch Install bonding grid
Ground work Excavation, backfilling, grading, and hauling away of any excavated material not needed for job.


Pool care automation Salt system for 40,000 gallon pool------------------------------------------------------$2,200
(This will be included at no cost with any 2022 pool build. Pool excavation must be this calendar year.)

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I'd get a 3hp Pentair VS pump. You can run it on lower speed, but you'll have the power you need if you desire.
Sand filter SD 80
I think you'll need more than just one LED light. Possibly 4 ?
3 Skimmers?? Hmmm... interesting. Make sure they're placed to take advantage of prevailing wind and circulation.
Many folks are going without floor drains nowadays. They use a sump pump to drain water greater than the skimmer allows.
YES! A handrail is a must!! Some avoid it and later regret it when their knee blows out or a sprained ankle requires extra caution.
A salt system is ideal For your pool I would recommend one that is sized for 60,000 gallons.

My two cents

Maddie

 

[gingrbredman]

Looks like a lot of details in your upcoming project. Do you know what brand equipment they are planning? Pentair (which I know best) has three options for automation, some builders will do only one, but the Intellicenter is their newest and would want that with any new build. Easy Touch is OK and a lot of people have that with screenlogic, like I said, fine, but a new install should probably be the newest system with updates available, unlike Easy Touch or Intelliconnect.

3 foot walkway

3' seems like enough at first, but is really just enough for walking. Any seating will be minimal if that's the only hard space around the pool.

-Pentair Intellibright LED color change pool light

Pentair's Microbrite is the newest light from Pentair and probably what you would want. Easy nichless install and future replacement would be no issues.

Complete maintenance kit with nets, poles, and brushes

Always a good start until you realize you upgrade after the first season, but this does get you by.

3-skimmers
2-floor drains
4-returns

Thats a lot of circulation! Of course it is a big pool, would love to see drawings of how this all comes together.

 

[jkearney30]

Thank you so much for the input. I attached a drawing that was given to me and I have a few questions below regarding comments made above.

Floor drains - I can ask to have these completely removed and then use a sump pump. This would be ideal in todays world?

Skimmers - would it hurt to add a 4th?

As for concrete, pump, led lights, equipment/Intellicenter I am going to inquire and make sure I do what is needed for sure.

Thank you again, everyone rocks here!

 

[ajw22]

Select the Pentair VS pump, SWG, and automation as a bundle and ensure that they all communicate together. Some Pentair equipment does not fully communicate with other equipment. For example the IntelliConnect system cannot control the VS functions of the SuperfloPump. You need the IntelliFlo pump to fully work with the IntelliConnect.

And the iChlor SWG Smart Sense feature only works with IntelliFlo pumps.

So you need to design the proper bundle of equipment that works best and not just look at individual devices.

How many gallons will be in your pool?

No heater? Ever?

No pool cover?

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Superflo VS Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Intellichlor ICXX SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair iChlor SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[gingrbredman]

Skimmers - would it hurt to add a 4th?

I don't think it would "hurt" to add a fourth, but three already seems like a lot for that pool. Ideally, two skimmers, in the best position to take advantage of the prevailing winds, would be great, three is just one more basket to clear out and hey, if it works, great, but four surely seems like over kill

 

[ajw22]

Floor drains - I can ask to have these completely removed and then use a sump pump. This would be ideal in todays world?

Keep your main drains.

Skimmers - would it hurt to add a 4th?

Even 3 skimmers are overkill but may be necessary with the shape of your pool.

It depends on the placement of the skimmers and your returns. You need to look at the overall plumbing plan not just pick a number.

 

[ajw22]

Also, I would prefer a large 500+ sq ft cartridge filter to the sand filter.

With a large cartridge filter you will likely need to clean it maybe once a season when you close the pool.

 

[jkearney30]

Many folks are going without floor drains nowadays. They use a sump pump to drain water greater than the skimmer allows.

My rep responded with this when I asked about removing the floor drains:

"Floor drains are a requirement and you are definitely going to want them.
Their function is to make sure that the water at the bottom deepest part of the pool is being turned over, filtered, sanitized, heated etc. If you were to only pull from the skimmers then you would have a pool that was really hard to keep clean."

He is coming out tomorrow morning to layout the pool and I will be going over all of the other questions in person and getting more details on lights, control system, etc.

Thanks again!!

 

[ajw22]

"Floor drains are a requirement and you are definitely going to want them.
Their function is to make sure that the water at the bottom deepest part of the pool is being turned over, filtered, sanitized, heated etc. If you were to only pull from the skimmers then you would have a pool that was really hard to keep clean."

I think you should keep the main drains but your reps reasons for keeping them are all wrong and have no scientific basis. Just a bunch of old wives tales passed among builders.

The chemicals like chlorine keep the water sanitized.

No heated water comes out of the drains so it does not make a difference in pool heating.

Turn over is a myth. You can never get a complete turn over of pool water or complete filtering. An interesting study is at...

http://consensus.fsu.edu/FBC/Pool-Efficiency/FAU-FPL-NSPI_1984_study-efficiency_of_circulation_systems.pdf

Debating the turnover is a myth belief

Yes i'm in questioning mode again ... that nuisance newbie from down under. I have tried hard to keep this impersonal as these statements are repeated by many. A number of statements that get repeated, especially to new members who will not have the knowledge yet to correctly interpret them...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I was surprised too when I learned that main drains were becoming "optional" these days. But truly.... a lot of pools have gone this way!
In a vinyl pool I'm always leery of added cuts in the liner so hesitate if there are work-arounds.
Your builder just learned one way of doing things and will never consider changes.... not a problem in this case <shrug>.

Maddie

 

[jkearney30]

Additional features we want to add - I just copied from the new document. Is Intelliconnect the good system? Also, the pool will be under 40,000 gallons and they are telling me I do not need the IC60 and that the IC40 is good enough?

Sun shelf
Radius sun shelf with 2 steps------------------------------------------------------------$5,300
Extend sun shelf out side of pool foot print for a 20’x36’x40’ size--------------$3,400
Bubblers on sun shelf
One Pentair GloBrite LED lighted bubbler--------------------------------------------$2,200
Two Pentair GloBrite LED lighted bubblers-------------------------------------------$2,800
Water feature options
(4) deck jet fountains-----------------------------------------------------------------------$1,700
OR
(4) Pentair magic stream LED lighted laminars
200 sq. ft. cartridge filter dedicated to fountains and electric switch------------$6,900
Note
If more than one water feature is added a second pump, and side suctions will be
needed to be dedicated to a feature---------------------------------------------------$2,400
Pool function automation
Pentair Intelliconnect control and monitoring system.
Upgrade pump to Pentair Intelliflo I-2
This system allows for pool function control from your smart phone-----------$3,450

 

[gingrbredman]

Is Intelliconnect the good system?

It is not the good system. The best Pentair automation is the Intellicenter. It is on backorder just about everywhere, but if your builder can get it, that is the one. Make sure he gets the bundle with the power center for the SWCG built in, it makes for a very nice install. Control from your phone is built in to the Intellicenter, so make sure when he is quoting you, its not another charge. He might not know a lot about the Intellicenter, PBs who install Intelliconnect usually are stuck in their ways of doing things, and that's the system they have done for years and years and not up to date on the newest things.

they are telling me I do not need the IC60 and that the IC40 is good enough?

They are incorrect, the IC40 really is not good enough. The recommendation is always to aim for a SWCG that is rated for 2x your pool volume. In your case though, Pentair does not make an IC80 so the next best thing would be the IC60. The IC40 is rated for 40,000 gallons, so in theory, it "could" work, but it will need to run 24/7 at 100% to just keep up with the minimum demand, and no room to spare. An oversized SWCG can run less, at lower percentages and last longer. If you ever need to ramp up chlorine, a ic40 just wouldn't cut it for your pool.

Like the water feature add on's. I would have gotten the colored LED bubblers, had it not been for the price, but looking back, I don't regret it, but do like the look of others that have them.

 

[ajw22]

Is Intelliconnect the good system?

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

IntelliConnect is an entry level automation system for simple pools. IntelliConnect can control Pentair IntelliFlo VS pumps, a Intellichlor or iChlor SWG, up to 5 pool devices, operates almost any 2 on/off items through two 20-Amp, 2 HP relays, and works through an app for smart devices.

The Pentair IntelliCenter is a full featured modular automation system.

If youa re going to have more then one pump the IntelliConnect is not right for you.

Also, the pool will be under 40,000 gallons and they are telling me I do not need the IC60 and that the IC40 is good enough?

No, with 40,000 gallons you need the IC60 so that you do not need to run your SWG at 200% 24/7 to get adequate chlorine.

Bubblers on sun shelf
One Pentair GloBrite LED lighted bubbler--------------------------------------------$2,200
Two Pentair GloBrite LED lighted bubblers-------------------------------------------$2,800

I think you will find the bubblers will make a lot of noise and the Globrite lights will not last more then a few years.

Water feature options
(4) deck jet fountains-----------------------------------------------------------------------$1,700
OR
(4) Pentair magic stream LED lighted laminars

Most people find the water features create a lot of noise, raise your pH, and are rarely used after a while.

Water Features - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

200 sq. ft. cartridge filter dedicated to fountains and electric switch------------$6,900
Note
If more than one water feature is added a second pump, and side suctions will be
needed to be dedicated to a feature---------------------------------------------------$2,400

Add up all the cost for the water features and decide if you will use it and get value for your cost.

Pool function automation
Pentair Intelliconnect control and monitoring system.

See above. Get the IntelliCenter if you are getting the water features.

Upgrade pump to Pentair Intelliflo I-2
This system allows for pool function control from your smart phone-----------$3,450

I would rather get an IntelliFlo VSF 011056 pump but the i2 is probably ok. It is a new pump and we have not heard much about it yet..

 

[jkearney30]

Most people find the water features create a lot of noise, raise your pH, and are rarely used after a while.

I am really struggling with the water features, worried if I don't get them, I will regret it and it will be near impossible to add them later. Then I have the fear I spend the money on them and go... well Darn, that wasn't worth it.

PBs who install Intelliconnect usually are stuck in their ways of doing things, and that's the system they have done for years and years and not up to date on the newest things.

This is the vibe I got when I asked if I was getting the newest automation and he quickly answered "yes we will give you intelliconnect" and I brought up Intellicenter and he said "no Intelliconnect is what you want".

I would rather get an IntelliFlo VSF 011056 pump but the i2 is probably ok. It is a new pump and we have not heard much about it yet..

I really want the IC60, Intellicenter, and whatever the best pump is to go with this. I also do plan to add a heater down the road. Is there a certain package I should press for to be able to have all of this?

Thanks again!!

 

[jkearney30]

I am also stuck between choosing an extra large lagoon 20x33x44 with a sunshell inside the pool or a standard lagoon 20x30x40 with a sunshell built outside essentially making it a 20x36x40.

 

[ajw22]

I really want the IC60, Intellicenter, and whatever the best pump is to go with this. I also do plan to add a heater down the road. Is there a certain package I should press for to be able to have all of this?

It seems the best stuff is the hardest to get with all the supply chain issues. I suspect your PB is nudging you towards the stuff he can get.

What are your choices in heaters? Natural gas? Propane? Heat Pump?

 

[ajw22]

I am also stuck between choosing an extra large lagoon 20x33x44 with a sunshell inside the pool or a standard lagoon 20x30x40 with a sunshell built outside essentially making it a 20x36x40.

I suspect with that depth profile your pool will be more in the low 30,000 gallon then 40,000 gallons.

 

[jkearney30]

What are your choices in heaters? Natural gas? Propane? Heat Pump?

Heat pump or natural gas.

As for pool depth, 3'6" shallow end with a 8' deep end for a diving board.

 

[ajw22]

With a pool that large get a NG gas heater. With the IntelliCenter you want the Pentair MasterTemp 400 heater.

If you don't get the heater with the pool plan for it by running the NG gas line to the pool pad and planning where it will be located.

What size gas meter do you have?

Make sure your NG meter and pipes meet the Pentair specs in the MasterTemp Installation Manual.