Being Held Hostage By My Pool!!! (aka Intelliph installation)

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ajw22 said:
I have been following your installation experience as my pool needs MA every 2 - 3 days to keep PH below 8.

Have you read the Amazon reviews on the IntelliPH and seen the problems others have had? Specifically:

Parts need to be serviced annually at a minimum!
ByJLMon September 30, 2015
I installed an Intelliph system along with a pentair pump and chlorinator in June of 2014. As of a couple of weeks ago I noticed acid staining underneath the pump. In fact my two children noticed the staining and thought it was mud. I contact Pentair to file a warranty claim as the pump went bad and leaked. Little did I expect to be told that [actual emails] "The whole unit is absolutely covered by a three year warranty if anything goes bad with it. The only difference with these pumps is they are a wear and tear item and do have to be replaced every year. This also makes it not a warrantable part because since they have to get changed out annually it does not fall into the perimeters of warranty."

So I ask in relation to the annual replacement "I did not see where I was supposed to (in the owners manual)" The reply i get "Yes the tube fittings in those units need to be replaced yearly because there is Acid running through them and they will eventually fail. There is a kit PN 522152 which rebuilds those motors, which is mainly replacing the suction tubes....it is an IntelliPH system it's on page 10 of the OM."

Please PENTAIR please show me where in the OM it states "this is a part that needs to be replaced at the minimum once a year"

No where in the sales brochure, user manual, or in any other documentation purchased with this unit is there ANY mention of a yearly replacement. At the very least this is a safety issue as little kids can be very hurt with the acid, and the worst this is a manufacturing defect. If it is the latter, I wonder why this product is on the market.

What needs to be done is #1 this should be stated in all brochures and #2 those of us who purchased this product thinking it would be safe should be given a rebate or parts as we were sold a defective product with a poor engineering design.

Needless to say this is unacceptable on many levels. I have never in my life seen such a negligent disregard for safety nor a solution for the customer to remedy the problem.

I give it 2 stars because at least it lasted 1 year.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info.

I did read that exact review, before I purchased. It's also made quite clear in the manual. Which is available online, so I had perused that before my purchase, too. So I am prepared for all that. It's possible the manual was changed since the reviewer posted, but no matter, I think that person is being unreasonable. It'd be like complaining about your new car purchase because the dealer didn't inform you that the oil would need to be changed every x miles, or that the tires would eventually wear out, which could cause an accident, which could kill someone, so the car manufacturer should fix your car for free, forever. Like there should be a sign on everything you buy explaining its upkeep? Pentair didn't hide that information from me, I just needed to take a few reasonable steps to learn it. Filter cartridges need to be replaced. Pump o-rings need to be replaced. SWGs need to be replaced. I'm not sure why that reviewer was so in the dark about something that handles a material that can melt plaster might need a little maintenance! ;) I don't believe it's defective. Nor bad engineering. The thing pumps a very strong acid. Some of its parts are subject to wear because of that. That's not a flaw, just a reality. And how about taking a little responsibility for your kids?!? If your kids have access to your pool pad, which includes a four gallon container of acid, 220V, high pressure water, and enough valves and buttons to destroy some or all of your pool, or seriously injure someone in the pool, uh, who's responsible? Yikes.

I was also aware that I might be facing the question I asked. I had read others' notes about diluting. And I had read others' notes that there IpH was not keeping up with demand. So I knew ahead of time this thing might not work for me. And I rolled the dice.

So far I have it delivering enough acid. It's just not clear to me how best to dilute MA, and by how much, or if I even need to. I was just reading a similar discussion about robots, that their manuals say take them out of the water, but at the same time they offer a timer which implies it can live in the water.

The IpH manual explains to dilute the acid, and the unit has a very handy feature that can empty an MA jug without pouring. You just slide it into the dispenser and it pierces the jug for you. But then how is one supposed to dilute the acid? The same manual states you don't pour water into acid!! Like the robot manual, I'm guessing Pentair includes the dilution language to support warranty denials. Like if the motor gives out too soon, they can ask "Well, did you dilute the acid first? No? Well, no soup for you!!"

Others claim they are using MA full strength in these things. Others are diluting. I'm just seeking thoughts on the subject, and maybe an MO that someone has worked out for this dilemma.
 
I will be following this and appreciate you being the test pool. If you are still happy with iph this time next year i will consider installing it.

I assume you keep your pool open all year. Mine is closed from November to March. I wonder how you drain the acid and winterize it?
 
Meh, I pour the water into the acid. I watched the handover guy do it with no protection whatsoever without incident. When it was my turn I did the same but with protection. No heat, no melting plastic. Nothing. I will probably just do it water first next time which won’t be hard. I discarded the remaining acid into an old acid jug that I can use later for manual addition. With the empty dispensing container just fill an empty acid jug with water from the hose and pour in. Then add a fresh jug. Ours are 5l but whatever size or for bigger quantities do two of each etc. There’s your 1:1 ratio. Mine is 2:1 so I do two jugs of water one of acid. This part of the system doesn’t bother me... just the fact that it doesn’t work[emoji31]
 
Huh. I was told all life as we know it will cease to exist should water pour into acid!!!

I can't empty the dispensing container. It's bolted to the pad. I can't run it empty, so it's always going to have some acid in it when I add more.

So maybe let the level get close to the bottom, then pour in two of water, then two of acid?

I have a good mask and I wear gloves. I wonder what kind of heat we're talking about... Did you not feel any heat at all?

Or...

Thanks to TFP, my pool expenses are so low that I can afford the 14% stuff, off the shelf.

As I said, the bigger issue is if 1:1 is going to be strong enough to feed the pool. One of the more common reviewer complaints were from those that had a similar problem getting it to dose enough. They were at 100% output, and the system doesn't allow you to increase what 100% dispenses. They wanted a way to override the default dosing amount and increase it. I suppose Pentair is not eager to do that, wanting the system to be safe as possible to pools.

I suppose I could put in two of 14 and one of 31... Or one of water and two of 31... Eventually I'll find the maximum dilution that will both feed my pool and minimize the strength of the acid on the equipment. I'll figure it out.

Any thoughts about that acid pumping out of the returns while humans are in the pool? (And maybe that's another reason Pentair only allows so much acid at a time, and suggests the dilution.)
 
On the acid out of the returns. For discussion sake say you are pumping at 25 gallons per minute. or about 48 oz per second. And you add what, a teaspoon (at most) of acid per second? Dilution is the solution.
 
Dirk said:
So maybe let the level get close to the bottom, then pour in two of water, then two of acid?

I have a good mask and I wear gloves. I wonder what kind of heat we're talking about... Did you not feel any heat at all?
Click to expand...

Nothing. Zip. Nada. I was waiting for some sort of explosion. Mine is 31% acid. No heat at all. No additional fumes - same as what you’d get pouring into a measurement jug to dispense by hand. I’m sure if you added water first to the small amount of acid left then added the acid it would be perfectly fine. You will have your protection on.

I have often thought about how LC and acid shouldn’t be added at the same time and how that works with this system. Maybe that’s part of the reason for diluting it? It does dispense very small amounts at a time so I guess by the time it makes it out a return it is even more diluted by a long shot.
 
I figured that Pentair legal would be all over any issues pumping acid out of the returns like that. But was looking for a little "feel good" from the experts here about it. Thanks Marty.

From the manual:

IntellipH Chart.jpg

The manual states the pump dispenses once an hour. So I think one can assume that it does it all at once, though at whatever rate it does it. According to the chart, if I max the output, it'll dispense 2.13 oz at one time. That goes through a 1/4" line, into an injector that has an even smaller ID. That's squirting into 2" of water, probably over the course of a minute (I'll have to time it some time), then running 25' or so to the pool, and then separated (to some degree) into three returns. I think that's safe to claim "safe" for skin. And maybe you'd have to have your eyeball right up to the return to pose even a tiny danger to that tissue. Guess I'll have to let that go.

I did worry about mixing acid and chlorine together at the same time in the pipe, and shooting that through the returns. I posed that question here (somewhere, I can't find it now). Someone answered it is a non issue as long as both remain underwater. Which, to be honest, didn't make sense to me because of all the hype here about adding those two things at least 15 minutes apart. If you poured in acid, then poured in chlorine on top of that, wouldn't they be mixing underwater? So either that someone was mistaken, or the warning about dosing those two too close together is not actually a concern? Or is it that the chlorine hits the acid while it's still close to the surface and the air gets involved?

Either way, one of the nice things about going with IntelliChlor and IntellipH, instead of using Stenner, is that the IntellipH is controlling the IntelliChlor. So just before the IntellipH pumps acid into the pipe, it shuts off the IntelliChlor. Once the injection is done, the IntellipH turns the IntelliChlor back on. So the mixing of the two, if any, would be infantesimal.
 
Well, I just wanted to close out this thread. I haven't touched MA in weeks. Calibrating the IntellipH's output to my pool seemed way simpler and easier than I had anticipated. I just picked a number, got it pretty close right off the bat, and then just tweaked it a few times. pH has been very stable, and I couldn't be happier with the purchase.

My output is just over 50%, using 31% MA, so I don't yet know what to do about the 1:1 dilution ratio the manual recommends. I guess the next time I add acid, I'll use 14% and see what happens. If 100% output at 14% solves the problem, then great. If not, I suppose I'll have to mess with the dilution ratio.

Installation was easy. I bolted it to my pad and hid it behind the heater, so it's as safe as it can be. I used a chemical mask while pouring in four gallons of MA into the tank. Still caught a few whiffs. Highly recommend gloves and mask and glasses while adding acid. It's just not worth the risk to skip those, and since I'll only have to do this a few times a year, it just doesn't make sense not to be cautious.

This is my official two-thumbs-up for the IntellipH. I'll report back if anything goes wrong...

:thumleft::thumleft:
 
I think I hate you right now. As I just added a gallon of MA. On Sunday I added enough to knock it back to 7.2. Today it was back around 7.9. Now 7.0 and aerating like crazy. TA is 65-70 I’m going to be around enough I’m shooting for 50-60 to see if that slows it down. I know my biggest problem is that 7.8 and 8.0 look similar to me and the added insecurity of not knowing if it’s over 8.0 when you look at the scale. I have bookmarked the Stenner pump page and here in a couple of weeks if the MA / PH rise madness has t resolved itself I’m going the auto-dose route.
 

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So jealous! Mine is still not auto dosing properly. They replaced the probe and I think it is now reading correctly but it doesn’t care how far over the set point it gets. It makes no real attempt to keep the ph down. Set it to 7.6 and this morning it’s 7.9. It should be dosing acid to correct but no grrr. Had to tell it to dose a set amount to bring it down. Beyond frustrated with this thing.
 
Can you get rid of the probe part and just run it as a "dumb doser?" Just X amount of acid per day? So far that's working here, the result, the pH level, is more stable than what the SWG does for FC, which varies depending on all the usual factors (temp, bather load, etc). My pool just seems to stay at 7.7 now.

We're discussing in another thread the overdosing potential. Like if the thing goes haywire and just keeps pumping. I would think relying on a probe/computer to calculate the dose ups the possibility of something going wrong. If you can get your setup to dose the correct amount each day to stabilize your pH without the probe, should you?
 
Well, I am very happy (and embarrassed) to report!

I just got back from a 5-day trip, and my pool survived!! Well, thrived, actually. pH 7.7 and FC 4.5. Dead on where they were supposed to be. And because I was relying on my gizmos, I didn't have to goose acid or chlorine before I left. No pucks. The pool just took care of itself. And maintained perfect chemistry the whole time.

But, of course, I almost sabotaged the whole thing! I really lucked out. My normal MO is to turn off my house water when I leave for more than a day. In case a supply line pops or whatever (it happened to me once and destroyed my house). I had it in my head that my pool and landscaping would be fine, as the auto-fill and irrigation systems are tapped off the water main before the house shut off valve. Yep, well, that used to be true.

You all have been subjected to my incessant bragging about how I have solved CH-creep by connecting my auto-fill to my water softener. You'd think I would have remembered I'd done that!!! The water softener is on the house side of of the shut off valve! Ooops!! So I inadvertently shut off my autofill system right before I left for five days!! I came back to about a 1/2" of water above the skimmer. So close. Another day vacation and I might have been looking for a new pump!! (Remember, I also brag about removing my drains!)

I really do need constant supervision.

The worst part of this is: I had planned for this!! My fill system is valved such that I can put the pool back on the street side of the shut off valve with just the turn of a knob. I just didn't. Well, no harm no foul. I lucked out. I won't forget next time...

Or I'll write about it here if I do!! ;)

Long story longer... My IntelliChlor and IntellipH worked perfectly, and I continue to be very happy with both of them.
 
Dirk LOL dude! You just need a list titled "Before I leave" so you can check off what to do and what not to do. Oh and then remember to use it! I forgot to print mine out before we left this summer so forgot to turn off the water this time. Thankfully everything was okay.

Kim:kim:
 
Ha! Now you know I have such a list. Single-spaced, 9-point-condensed type, double-sided!! I used to use if for my scuba trips, and after the first couple of years (as it grew and grew) I would forget nothing!! But it's been so long since I've done anything fun, and I was in such a hurry to pack, I didn't think about the list, or a lot of other things!

I'll put putting the bit about the pool on the list on my other list! ;)
 
Quite boring really isn’t it? After all the fun and games of midnight acid dosing I’m left wondering what on earth to do with the pool these days. Since our ph probe was replaced it’s been fairly uneventful. Ho hum. I do need to add a little calcium since my TA has dropped over time from all the acid. Umm that’s about it other than cleaning etc but Jeff takes care of most of that. How long do you get out of a drum of acid? Ours is diluted 2:1 and I get around 3 weeks out of 15 litres total. Five minute job to fill and that’s that.

Glad you avoided drama with your water level and that you were able to leave the pool unattended acid wise.
 

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