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Construction concerns when adding Baja shelf to existing pool

M
We are planning a major remodel to our pool—new coping, surface, tile, equipment. We are also considering adding a Baja shelf. My concern is the potential for problems when adding new construction to an old pool. I understand that there can be structural integrity and plumbing problems, but I don’t know if it is common or rare. I’d appreciate learning from the experience of anyone who has done this. Did you have any problems after the addition? What potential problems should we be aware of? Tips on how to make sure the construction is done right?Screenshot 2025-03-04 at 12.27.28 PM.png

Here is a draft from our contractor that places a new Baja shelf where the entry steps are currently located. The pool is 16’ x 32’ and we are trying to preserve a lane for swimming laps. The deep end of the pool is cut off in this image.

Thanks for sharing your experience and advice!

Screenshot 2025-03-04 at 12.27.28 PM.png
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HOA Pool

S
Thank you all for your responses. The pool is rectangular and on the larger side. I’ve reached out to our management company for the exact size, but for now, I can estimate that it’s roughly 2/3 the size of another pool I’m familiar with, which measures 25x20 yards.
As far as I know, county regulations require daily water quality checks, and we do not have lifeguards on duty. The pool experiences relatively low traffic.
After reading your responses, I’m now even more concerned about potential overcharges.
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M
Screenshot 2025-03-04 at 12.27.28 PM.png

Little brown-red type spores on hot tub jets

datadr93
While waiting for any replies, I pulled the info on the hot tub heater:
Balboa 58104 heater, 4.0 kw 800 M7 stud.

If I'm understanding the 800 means it is composed of nickel-iron-chromium alloy... and doesn't appear it's a very high-end unit/element.

I did find this replacement... Hydro-Quip titanium element 6-Flo, 4.0 kw, 230v, 10" Immersion w Balboa M7 Swoop... $39.00. The cost is negligible if I can fix something early to prevent issues later.
www.superiorpoolandspa-service.com

TITANIUM HEATER ELEMENT 6-FLO 4.0kW 120v/230v, 10" Immersion w Balboa M7 Swoop — SUPERIOR POOL AND SPAS

Hydro-Quip Heater Element 6-FLO HYDRO-QUIP Heater Element, Flo-Thru, Double Bend, M7, 4.0kW, 230V, 10" Immersion w/Swoop Hydro-Quip Heater Element 6-FLO The smart choice Replacement heating element for 15" stainless steel manifolds, including Balboa, Gecko, Hydro Quip and many ot
www.superiorpoolandspa-service.com www.superiorpoolandspa-service.com
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Dual Heat Pumps on LI?

J
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Geothermal Energy
Up to $2,000/ton in Rebates
Tap into the earth for your heating, cooling and hot water needs with a geothermal/ground source heat pump. In heating mode, these systems are four times as efficient as the most efficient fuel furnace or boiler. These pumps don't make new heat - they just extract the heat from the ground and amplify it. In cooling mode, these same units are twice as efficient as conventional air conditioning units.

Geothermal Energy - PSEG Long Island

Find out if geothermal is right for you – and learn about available rebates through the Cool Homes program.
www.psegliny.com www.psegliny.com

ENERGY STAR Rebates for Home Appliances - PSEG Long Island

Shopping for a washers, dryers, refrigerator or AC? Find rebates for ENERGY STAR certified products like central air, humidifiers, air purifiers & more.
www.psegliny.com www.psegliny.com


Rebates are capped at $25,000 (Market Rate) and $35,000 (Income Eligible Rate).

How much can I claim for new solar panels on my tax return?
You can receive a tax credit for a percentage of the cost (not including installation costs), which varies depending on when the system was/is placed in service.

30% for systems placed in service after December 31, 2016, and before January 1, 2020
26% for systems placed in service after December 31, 2019, and before January 1, 2022
30% for systems placed in service after December 31, 2021, and before January 1, 2033
26% for systems placed in service after December 31, 2032, and before January 1, 2034
22% for systems placed in service after December 31, 2033, and before January 1, 2035

Note that geothermal used exclusively for the pool might not qualify for rebates or tax incentives.

If you add solar, you can use that to power the heat pumps and save money.

You can add home geothermal and use the geothermal for pool heating as well.

You need to do a thorough investigation into all rebates and incentives to see what qualifies.
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Dual Heat Pumps on LI?

J
Have you checked into rebates and tax credits.

Heat pumps can have rebates and tax credits and geothermal can qualify for incentives as well.

A 140,000 btu/hr heat pump is 11.7 tons and 2 is 23.3 tons.

If you can get a rebate of 1,500.00 per ton, then that is $35,000.00 credit.

  • New York State Tax Credit 30% up to a maximum of $5,000.00.
  • LIPA rebates up to $1,000.00 per unit.
Heat Pump Pool Heaters
$600 Rebate

Higher Rebates
The PSEG Long Island ground source heat pump rebate is $1,500 per heating ton (and $3,000 per heating ton for income eligible customer). In addition, we aligned our requirement to match ENERGY STAR®. A new qualifying three-ton ground source heat pump system rebate is $4,500 ($9,000 for income eligible).


Geothermal Energy - PSEG Long Island

Find out if geothermal is right for you – and learn about available rebates through the Cool Homes program.
www.psegliny.com www.psegliny.com


Residential Energy Efficiency Property Credit
Your energy efficient geothermal systems may also qualify for a federal tax credit.

The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 reinstated the residential renewable energy tax credit for renewable technology including ground source heat pumps.

You may claim a tax credit of 30% for qualifying systems, by using IRS Form 5695 .

Please consult with your tax accountant and your ground source heat pump installer for more details.

There is also a New York State income tax credit for 25% of the geothermal project cost, capped at a maximum credit of $5,000.

The details are in Section 606 (Credits against tax), Subsection (g-4) Geothermal energy systems credit.
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New EVO 614i Robot Pool Cleaner Review

M
GDN said:
Another first day positive review for the 614iq

First - the pool was more of a mess than I realized. I knew it was dirty, but I hadn't done anything to it in about 3 weeks, back before our cold snap and 9 degree weather. However, both skimmer baskets had floated (rarely happens in this pool), the skimmer boxes had leaves in them and hence the basket at the pump was packed full. Got that cleaned up and made sure both skimmer lines were clear and got to work with the new robot.

The old Pentair Racer (pressure side cleaner) had not been doing a good job of cleaning in months, maybe a couple of years. It didn't cover the whole pool, would get stuck near the steps, needed a new brush and the pump started making a noise so I knew it was time. To be fair the pool is going on its 10th season and I've had to do very little to it. I should also note I don't own a vacuum of any kind. The cleaning has been the Racer and an occasional brushing.

I brushed the deck and put the new 614iq in and let it go to work. It got every leaf in the pool the first 2.5 hour cleaning. That was impressive. As others note it won't clean the tanning deck (7" of water) but it has climbed up on the "Seat" that is built in at about 18" deep. So it has the capabilities if your seats and steps are wide enough for it, or if the tanning ledge were likely 12-14" I think it would climb up and clean.

To say the least I'd wondered if shutting the pump off to let things settle to the floor would be the way to go while it was cleaning and I did so for the first cleaning. I've already decided against that for the future. After dark and with the pool lights on I could see all of the fine debris it had stirred up, but not captured, I was very surprised at how cloudy the water was and what was stirred up. So I know running the pump while that is stirred up with help filter it out.

I was going to put the "Fine" filter in today and run a couple of cycles with the pump on to get the water back to crystal clear, but unfortunately opening the fine filter, it was broken during shipment. I'm sure Marina will take care of me tomorrow for that fix.

Emptying the cleaner basket I was once again impressed. All the leaves, but then also the fine debris it had picked up was impressive. The pic below shows about half of it. I had already tapped the basked to empty and about half of it fell out. I didn't realize so much silt was below the leaves when I first looked in.

As others note, the bot is slow to respond to app commands. I'll likely learn to not press the buttons too long and be able to control it to face the wall and then climb for removal. That's not the end of the world, but with today's technology you'd expect a little quicker response. My old Roomba vacuums didn't do much better in the house.

If it will perform like this for many years to come and I get the fine basket in it, I'd say I'll be a happy camper.

View attachment 630431

View attachment 630432 View attachment 630433
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My old pentair warrior SE broke after 3 years at the end of last season which I felt was a little short. It was fine except it got stuck on the main drains within 10 minutes of starting a cycle (I bought covers which reduced getting stuck to once every few weeks) and the cable shredding was annoying. It was working fine, then I pulled it out of the pool to clear it, put it back in and it wouldnt run. I kept meaning to try to fix it, but never got around to it.

I bought a betabot to skim the surface and I dont feel like it really did anything. The basket is mostly empty and the skimmers were completely full. Lots of leaves in the bottom of the pool.

Decided to try the new hot thing suggested here. I ordered my 614IQ from marina pool and spa last week. Came within a few days. Set it up last night and ran a cycle and it ran another cycle automatically this morning. I included the pictures from the post Im replying to as my basket looked pretty much like that too. Lots of very fine mud and all the leaves except 2. The total mud was about a cup.

I brushed the benches just now and am running another cycle to see if I can get the rest of the dust.

I dont have the fine filter in and will probably buy one.

For whatever reason we get a lot of dust in this pool compared to our last pool.
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Indoor gunite hot tub….keep & renovate?

MAPR-Austin
Chedwards said:
Hello all! First time poster, long time lurker. Appreciate all of you, as reading through TFP and this forum has really helped me get my feet under me as a first time Pool owner this past year.

We are currently getting out Pool replastered and tiled.

But, we’ve been dragging our feet on one decision. This Hot Tub. We bought this house a year ago, and when we did, this whole hot tub was covered with a wood framed platform and carpeted over. The story I heard is the previous home owners didn’t use it, and so they just had it sit dry and covered for a decade.

From what I can tell, this hot tub and whole area used to be outdoor on the deck like the pool. But at some point the old homeowner decided to enclose a portion of the deck, and with it, the gunite hot tub. So now it is somewhat indoors, in the enclosed deck.

We like the idea of having a hot tub in here. Dreaming of soaking in it and watching the snow fall outside in the winter months!

It is plumbed to the same equipment room as the pool. The company that is renovating our pool is going to pressure test the lines to make sure it is still good. In the equipment room, it has two pumps (one labeled “spa jets” & other “spa filter”) and a heater, and a sand filter. It appears to be plumbed and operated completely separately from the pool. All of this equipment seems pretty historic, so my assumption is, we’ll have to replace all of it too if we do renovate it.

We have been debating whether we replaster this and get new equipment. Or we just fill it in and put a normal/basic hot tub on top. Although, our contractor warned that’s not as simple as you might think. That there’s permitting we have to do to fill in the hot tub and electrical would have to be run here.

Assuming the lines pressure test okay, what would you do? And pros and cons you guys can think of? Also, if we do decide to keep it as a gunite hot tub, any suggestions as far as renovation and equipment? Any feedback is appreciated!

Thank you!!
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Any reason you can't just have a service company come check things over, fill it up and see if it runs/operates? Looks like an electric heater in the equipment picture, is that correct?
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New build in Atlanta, GA - Nov 24

AndyMac1
lvanpelt said:
Between the unusually cold January and a few other snags, we’re getting ready to pebble next Friday. The pool builder is suggesting doing the NPT stonescapes mini pebble on Friday, then acid washing the next week and filling.

2 questions.
1) how long after pebble should you do acid wash and fill?
2) is doing the acid wash a good idea / necessary in the first place?t

I’ve read the start up guides so understand the process once it’s filled, but trying to understand before filling what needs to happen. Thanks!!
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This is exactly how ours went, pebble, acid wash the next day, and immediately start filling. We also used the same brand of pebble, what color are you going with?
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New EVO 614i Robot Pool Cleaner Review

S
For those who've experienced issues with the robot...sometime during the last quarter of last year it had the issue I've seen posted here where it would go forward a few feet, rotate (I think 180 degrees...it's been a minute) than go forward a few feet and repeat. I took it to Leslie's and explained it was a polaris and they "fixed it". Seemingly replacing all the parts. It worked for a few months and then started throwing a communications error code 10. Took it back in, they fixed it again (not sure what parts this time). And within a few weeks was throwing that code again.

I called Flurodia support and they asked me to take it to a different Leslie's to run a diagnostic. They did mention that if it isn't put back together just so it can have problems (I assume that's not unique to this robot). This new Leslie's told me their diagnostics were somewhat limited as to the motor block but could tell the control box and cable were bad. Called Fluorida, they agreed to send me a new EVO 614iQ. Then got a call from them a few hours later saying that it had/was being discontinued but that they'd send me a Polaird EPIC 8642iQ. Will hopefully arrive in the next week or so and get back to work. Other than the inlet being too small for the acorns I'm unfortunately cursed with, when the robot ran properly I thought it did a good job.

​

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How to choose a new main pump?

Jimrahbe
M,

In the old days, with single speed pumps, it was important to match the pump with the size of the plumbing, filter and pool.. In those days, you wanted to run the pump for the shortest amount of time possible due to the cost of operation, and the fact that they were very loud.

Not so much when using today's VS pumps... With a VS pump the basic idea is to buy a large (3 HP range) VS pump and to run it as slow as possible and still get the job done.. Running at a low rpm. means the cost to run 24/7 is often less than $20 bucks a month, and they are so quiet that you almost have to touch the pump to see if it is actually running. They really are Variable HP pumps... You just match the pump to the pool. The bigger the pump, the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water.

I too would recommend the IntelliFlo3... It would require a little replumbing, but unless your current pump is connected with pump unions, you will have to replumb anyway.


This pump comes with an app, and can be controlled by Pentair automation systems. As an option, you can also get it with an internal relay card to control other items, as well as a touch panel..

Thanks,

Jim R.
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Mastertemp400 breaker tripping while heater is OFF

J
Thanks for your replies.
The wire nut connection of the wires from the breaker and the main power wires in the heater looked dirty and corroded (black,red,green; 16 awg). I cut off the corroded ends and used water proof Dryconn wire nut connectors to splice them together. These are the only wires anywhere in the whole system that looked compromised. All other terminals, connections, wires, grounds, looked fine. Heater breaker has not tripped since everything dried out. This is the first time this has happened since pool was built in 2019, so I'm thinking possibly that could have been enough time for those corroded connections to start leaking current.
BTW, the 16 gauge black,red,green wires that came factory wired inside the heater look silver, like aluminum wires. Those are tinned copper wires, not aluminum, right?
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Dual Heat Pumps on LI?

1
NYR56 said:
I've been looking into installing a pool heater after using our pool for the first time last year. It's ~45-50K gallons and gets nearly full sun during the day on Long Island, NY. The pool is comfortable during the summer on sunny days (~78-80) but gets chilly after the sun sets. The curved L shape precludes a pool cover unfortunately. The pool company is pushing a 400k BTU natural gas heater, although I have to run a 200' gas line through the entire backyard. A few people have mentioned getting two heat pumps instead. I think that would get us up to around 280k BTU. We're not going in the pool unless it's at least 70 degrees outside, so I'm not trying to heat very cold water. Ideally we would keep the pool around 85 for the summer so we could go in after work and on weekends, which is why I'm leaning towards a heat pump. I assume I would need another electric line run to carry power for a dual heat pump situation, but that is likely much cheaper than a gas line. We don't have solar now but in ~10 years when the roof goes we'll get some panels.

Is this crazy compared to using a gas heater or will two heat pumps be able to accomplish what we're looking to do? Gas is only going to get more expensive, and heat pumps will continue to get more efficient, so I'd rather put in infrastructure for the future than regret I put in a gas line. It seems like running two heat pumps will still cost less than one gas heater. Appreciate any advice!
Click to expand...
This is based on you having a 50K gallon pool. That's huge for a residential pool.
How fast will you need the heat? A 400K BTU heater will add about .8 degrees an hour to that large a pool. Based on published data, that will cost about $8.00/hour for that heater.
Two heat pumps of 140K BTU, running parallelly will add about .7 degrees an hour if you can get the full rate BTUs, depending on how much heat is in the air. You would need at least a 100A service at the pool equipment just for two heat pumps. At your published electric rates and a rating of 7.2kw/hr. each that would be about $1.80 and hour.
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I want to upgrade my SWCG - what work is needed?

rsmobley85
I had a hayward aqua trol rj with T 5 cell. It was recommended with my pool installer. But way under sized. With suggestions from this forum. I was able to order the CP 45 for my system. I was able to add the flow switch and swap out the hayward box for the CP box all by myself. I thought i had 230volt but contacted customer service and they checked my settings and helped me switch to my actual 110v and am up and running great. Customer service is awesome and fast to reply they are in Texas. So don't hesitate to contact them. Just make sure you turn of main power to the pool system.
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Infinity Edge Pool & Spa Renovation

B
I decided to start the preliminary renovations at the spa and a decent portion of the wall crumbled as I was removing the coping. Upon further investigation, I believe most of the damage was caused by poor/no sealing around the mouth of the skimmer. All the damage basically spread from the skimmer. There were huge gaps between the tile and skimmer that I sealed a few years ago, but I think the damage was already done so I was just putting a bandaid on a huge flesh wound. I think a secondary issue was minor leaking around the pipe for the spa control wires.

I contacted one of the pool renovation companies to help with the process and perform the major steps. I think I will give the tiling and coping a shot on my own. The one contractor is very willing to work with me and could step in to finish tiling or other work if I get overwhelmed. I may start a new thread detailing my entire renovation journey.
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Planned Downtime

justin.smith2181
Leebo said:
To start today we’ve preformed a backup and have proceed making a copy of all details from the current server onto our new server. This process is currently 90% complete and we’re expecting somewhere around an hour for this to complete from now. Once this step is done we will then update some code on the server and finally
test the new server internally. Assuming all went well we will then open things up publicly and go from there.

It is our assumption all data, subscriptions, and so forth will be migrated over and it’s our hope tomorrow you won’t even know you’re on a new server as it’ll be just like the old. We’re having to do this as the old server was dated and maxed out, so this process simply will help us move forward.
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Thanks for the update!
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Bonding question

1
gctnj said:
Hi. I am replacing a pool pump on an older pool and noticed there is no bonding wire at the pump. I checked the pool. The ladder, handrail and pool light junction box had continuity, so it looks like it has a bonding grid. I will check to see if the pump bonding wire was cut. My question is the pool light junction box. It has a bonding wire connection and an electrical ground wire connection. Doesn’t this create a connection between ground and the bonding grid ? Could a ground fault electrify the bonding grid and create a safety issue?
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A pool as old as yours was probably plumbed using copper pipe and a bronze pump. That pipe was also the bond as long as the pump was also electrically grounded (a separate ground wire, many weren't in that era). The pipe was also considered the grounding for the motor many times.
If the pump was replaced with a new plastic one the bond to the motor was gone. If there is a piece of copper pipe still coming out of the ground, get a ground clamp and some 8ga wire and attach it to the bond lug on the motor. Be sure that there is also a 12g ground wire to the equipment if possible.
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Dual Heat Pumps on LI?

NYR56
I've been looking into installing a pool heater after using our pool for the first time last year. It's ~45-50K gallons and gets nearly full sun during the day on Long Island, NY. The pool is comfortable during the summer on sunny days (~78-80) but gets chilly after the sun sets. The curved L shape precludes a pool cover unfortunately. The pool company is pushing a 400k BTU natural gas heater, although I have to run a 200' gas line through the entire backyard. A few people have mentioned getting two heat pumps instead. I think that would get us up to around 280k BTU. We're not going in the pool unless it's at least 70 degrees outside, so I'm not trying to heat very cold water. Ideally we would keep the pool around 85 for the summer so we could go in after work and on weekends, which is why I'm leaning towards a heat pump. I assume I would need another electric line run to carry power for a dual heat pump situation, but that is likely much cheaper than a gas line. We don't have solar now but in ~10 years when the roof goes we'll get some panels.

Is this crazy compared to using a gas heater or will two heat pumps be able to accomplish what we're looking to do? Gas is only going to get more expensive, and heat pumps will continue to get more efficient, so I'd rather put in infrastructure for the future than regret I put in a gas line. It seems like running two heat pumps will still cost less than one gas heater. Appreciate any advice!
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