IMG_1706.jpeg

IMG_1696.jpeg

IMG_1679.jpeg

1.5 Years after Dig Day, Our Builder Quit!

Frankly, I just heard some good news:
- You're only in 50% (not counting those materials you paid for). And you have a hole filled with gunite, right? We've heard plenty of stories here that were far, far worse, including less construction and up to 100% paid.
- If I read correctly what you've written so far, you're at the gunite stage, which means a lot of the construction is still to come. Once you find a better contractor, I'm confident you'll end up with a better end result, since it won't be this incompetent contractor doing any more work. Many times, a disgruntled contractor has the right to finish the job, and that can turn into a real nightmare, because he's going to cut corners to recoup his profit, or just out of spite. Now, you'll be free to hire a better guy, and get a better pool, because this guy is out of your hair for good, without you having to use legal tactics to get rid of him. He's done you a favor, at least in that regard.
- His contract is a joke. That will work against him. In CA, a construction contract has to contain many components, or it is virtually null and void. And it is on the contractor to furnish a proper contract, because he is the expert (there's a legal term for this, which I forget). So a thin contract will contain a lot less provisions, or none, that would protect the contractor, and that's good. If the contract doesn't contain specific language for termination, then there are no implied termination provisions, which means any decent judge will have to side with you if any termination terms are in dispute. All good, assuming TX treats contracts like CA does.
- It sounds like he may still be in business, either with the pool company or the other company, or both. This is FANTASTIC if true. That means he has assets, and a reason to protect them. Which is just more leverage for you. You'll be negotiating from a position of strength, instead of trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
- His language about supplying a spreadsheet of the financials is also good news, because that would mean my assumption that he was bankrupt and/or broke and/or going out of business might not be the case. Which means he's got something to lose, and assets that can be seized if he owes you money (which he probably does). It sounds like he's trying to back out of the contract with a minimal loss to him, but a decent lawyer (yours) will make mince meat out of that. He's breeched the contract (which provides no terms for termination), and that too places you in a position of strength during negotiations (or with the judge).

Based on all this, a best case scenario might be that he could be liable for the entire 50% you've paid. That may not be likely, but breeching a contract is a serious matter that has way more repercussions than the contractor getting to state what is paid and owed and then trotting along on his merry way. What he did is highly illegal (at least in CA), and that, too, could be a good thing in terms of leverage. Now a more likely scenario, and what would be fair, is for a third party to determine the value of the work done to date, and for the judge (or the two attorneys) to then do the math to make you whole. In other words, you pay for the industry standard value of the work done to date, minus some sort of penalty for his breech and leaving you in the lurch, and then the judge rules he must pay you the balance (the difference between what he collected and what he did). He should also pay for an expert to assess the work completed to ascertain its worthiness (perhaps some core sample analysis of the shell to confirm it was done property, and a plumbing test, etc), all of which he would pay for. Along with all your attorney fees too.

I'm making a lot of assumptions, but as I said, I heard a lot of potential for, well, maybe not an ideal outcome, but certainly one not as bad as I was picturing. I truly hope that is the case.

Put your energy into finding a good attorney, and a great contractor, and then let them do their jobs. Then let it go and let it resolve itself while you refocus on what is ultimately way more important: you, your family and your peace of mind. Best of luck.

I've been doing some research and I'm feeling hopeful given the circumstances. I've already got another contractor scheduled to come this weekend to bid on completing the build. He's been in the gunite business for a long time prior to starting his own pool company, so I'm hoping he can give me a reasonable assessment of the quality of the work done so far, which is really only gunite.

I also plan to bring in some more quality builders to get bids and get a sense for who if anyone will take on completing our project.

Hopefully it helps that I documented many of the conversations I had with the owner over the last 1.5 years in this thread and that gives me credibility, because in the last meeting with the owner 2 weeks ago, he flat out lied about previous conversations we had, like when he wanted to walk away as the dig went south. In December 2023, I was very clear with him that if he walked away there would be consequences. And if he decided to gunite, it would mean this pool was his to complete 100%. He gave me that commitment and I clearly documented that here on Page 10/11. I'd also been taking notes throughout and did my best to put things in email.

Of course, being here now... I'm thinking I could have done better at documenting, but I think I have enough to put the law squarely on my side.

The good news is that I have a good amount of money saved that I can dump into this project to complete it if things reasonably fall into place. The bad news is that I was hoping to not touch that money given our current economic climate and the situation at our current workplace. We've been laying off people in droves, and no one is ever truly safe. We currently have about 140k employees and will likely reduce to 90k in the next year or so. That's a ton of risk and my savings made me feel safe for a year or so if one of us was to get laid off.

Hopefully it all works out.
  • Like
Reactions: HermanTX and Dirk

1.5 Years after Dig Day, Our Builder Quit!

Frankly, I just heard some good news:
- You're only in 50% (not counting those materials you paid for). And you have a hole filled with gunite, right? We've heard plenty of stories here that were far, far worse, including less construction and up to 100% paid.
- If I read correctly what you've written so far, you're at the gunite stage, which means a lot of the construction is still to come. Once you find a better contractor, I'm confident you'll end up with a better end result, since it won't be this incompetent contractor doing any more work. Many times, a disgruntled contractor has the right to finish the job, and that can turn into a real nightmare, because he's going to cut corners to recoup his profit, or just out of spite. Now, you'll be free to hire a better guy, and get a better pool, because this guy is out of your hair for good, without you having to use legal tactics to get rid of him. He's done you a favor, at least in that regard.
- His contract is a joke. That will work against him. In CA, a construction contract has to contain many components, or it is virtually null and void. And it is on the contractor to furnish a proper contract, because he is the expert (there's a legal term for this, which I forget). So a thin contract will contain a lot less provisions, or none, that would protect the contractor, and that's good. If the contract doesn't contain specific language for termination, then there are no implied termination provisions, which means any decent judge will have to side with you if any termination terms are in dispute. All good, assuming TX treats contracts like CA does.
- It sounds like he may still be in business, either with the pool company or the other company, or both. This is FANTASTIC if true. That means he has assets, and a reason to protect them. Which is just more leverage for you. You'll be negotiating from a position of strength, instead of trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
- His language about supplying a spreadsheet of the financials is also good news, because that would mean my assumption that he was bankrupt and/or broke and/or going out of business might not be the case. Which means he's got something to lose, and assets that can be seized if he owes you money (which he probably does). It sounds like he's trying to back out of the contract with a minimal loss to him, but a decent lawyer (yours) will make mince meat out of that. He's breeched the contract (which provides no terms for termination), and that too places you in a position of strength during negotiations (or with the judge).

Based on all this, a best case scenario might be that he could be liable for the entire 50% you've paid. That may not be likely, but breeching a contract is a serious matter that has way more repercussions than the contractor getting to state what is paid and owed and then trotting along on his merry way. What he did is highly illegal (at least in CA), and that, too, could be a good thing in terms of leverage. Now a more likely scenario, and what would be fair, is for a third party to determine the value of the work done to date, and for the judge (or the two attorneys) to then do the math to make you whole. In other words, you pay for the industry standard value of the work done to date, minus some sort of penalty for his breech and leaving you in the lurch, and then the judge rules he must pay you the balance (the difference between what he collected and what he did). He should also pay for an expert to assess the work completed to ascertain its worthiness (perhaps some core sample analysis of the shell to confirm it was done property, and a plumbing test, etc), all of which he would pay for. Along with all your attorney fees too.

I'm making a lot of assumptions, but as I said, I heard a lot of potential for, well, maybe not an ideal outcome, but certainly one not as bad as I was picturing. I truly hope that is the case.

Put your energy into finding a good attorney, and a great contractor, and then let them do their jobs. Then let it go and let it resolve itself while you refocus on what is ultimately way more important: you, your family and your peace of mind. Best of luck.

Active 20 no longer working

I have an active 20 thats just over 3 years old, its will turn on normally and start its forward and backward movement with the light blinking then just starts going in reverse forever. the impeller motor never turns on during this process, but the motor is not the issue. when the driver motor and LED is unplugged from the motherboard the impeller motor turns on for a few seconds before turning off. I am assuming a motherboard issue since each individual thing will turn on but it going into reverse forever instead of turning off like a normal failsafe has me hesitant.

Never thought I'd have a pool...

... But here I am. Found a perfect house in a perfect neighborhood in Santa Rosa CA but it had a pool. I thought, pool no way, but here I am. Apparently this pool was a meeting place for the neighborhood.

Everyone says I need a pool guy, but I just can't see myself paying someone $60 a week for half hour or so of work and a bunch of chemicals.

The Reddit pools group suggested this site. I look forward to learning a lot here and doing this myself. (PS, I'm 69 years old but do things myself whenever I can.)

Backwash procedure for pool with 2 filters

Before replacing any plumbing I would try to reconcile the disconnect between the flow meter and pump pressure/suction measurements. They each indicate different flow rates.

Either one or both may be incorrect but if both are correct then there is something wrong with the pump because it does not match the published head curve.

I would separate the wet end from the motor and get a part number off the impeller to verify it is the correct one.

Questions about free chlorine

If you did as I outlined in post #21 and got a result on the tube of 90, your actual CYA is at least 180.

You can do another diluted test with 2 parts tap water, 1 part pool water and the result is 3 times what you read on the tube.

Best to do the test in the conditions outlined earlier.
Yes i followed the instructions. I appreciate all of your help! I'll re-test tomorrow and them work on draining and refilling over a period to see if I can lower the CYA.

1.5 Years after Dig Day, Our Builder Quit!

I make all the financial and important decisions for our family and I feel like this is my fault. I did not want a pool to begin with, but I relented to make my wife happy thinking this would be great for our little girls too, but I obviously rushed this decision which is highly unlike me. I feel like I let them down.
This could and has happened to others. Even with the best of intentions and preparation there are times where crummy things just unexpectedly happen. At this time, focus on what you can do to resolve this situation and move forward. The could have should haves never lead to anything great. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

Questions about free chlorine

Your PoolMath logs are now showing.

If CYA is 90 or above, do the diluted test as outlined in the article attached.
If you mixed 1/2 poolwater with 1/2 tap water for the diluted test, you would double the CYA result from that test.
Okay so I did the diluted test and cya was 90 possibly 100 (was hard to tell since it wasn't super bright outside. Will test again tomorrow). So does that mean my cya is 180?

FC and CYA - Justifying the increased cost of Liquid Chlorine

Just ordered my TF Pro Salt.

Thank you for the information on the heater bypass. I see the value in the bypass, but I am not looking to invest in a lot of changes beyond the purchase of the SWG unless it's absolutely necessary, or if I will somehow recoup the cost in the next few years. I am in a temporary rental home (3-4 years) having been displaced by the California wild fires earlier this year. I got the SWG because I was/am convinced that it will pay for itself in liquid chlorine and time/hassle savings.

Do you think the SWG and flow switch will work on the 60 degree incline? PoolStored, you seemed to think the cell would be fine but maybe not the flow switch. Would there be an issue with installing the flow switch on the relatively horizontal pipe leading into the heater? Just a thought.

One somewhat related question...

Now that I'm converting to a SWG I understand that I will need to raise my CYA. It is currently at 50. This is admittedly a Leslies measurement corroborated by test strips, but I don't have my test kit yet. If I do indeed need to raise the CYA, would using the pucks I purchased before finding TFP be an ok way to do that. I now know that stabilized chlorine is no good for regular use, but I do have a big bucket of pucks sitting around.

Thanks.

P.S. I have plenty of fodder for my PoolStored entry, which I will post after I have installed the SWG and my pool is running smoothly - fingers crossed!
Chances are you will recoup the cost of a heater bypass in electric saving over a couple of years. The additional parts are a 3-way Jandy valve, a Jandy check valve a couple PVC fittings and a little bit of PVC pipe - maybe $200-$300 in materials.

And if you are installing a SWG, you are already cutting pipe and plumbing that in.

I would consider putting both the SWG and flow switch horizontal or vertical - easy enough to do away with that 45° section of pipe. Adding a 90 or two will not affect your plumbing efficiency.

Wait until you get your test kit and get the SWG installed before raising CYA.
You will also need to measure the present salt content before adding any additional salt.
  • Like
Reactions: ibondsmith

Backwash procedure for pool with 2 filters

Hydraulically Inefficent Plumbing (Remedy: Replace sections of plumbing that may be restricting flow.) (Recommended by pool company.)
The concern I have is what does that actually mean? Is it hydraulically inefficient because it should be 4”, 6”, 8” in diameter?….. or because it has too many restrictive fittings….or because anything? They have not defined the actual root cause, which leaves you with a potential fix that could mean re-plumbing everything depending on the knowledge/expertise of the diagnostician….Call me pessimistic but their diagnosis/proposed solution leaves me feeling a bit queasy.
  • Like
Reactions: JPMorgan

Calcium Precipitate

You can mange CH up to about 800 before you need to drain/refill. As the CH rises, you need to keep the pH a bit lower (but still in the 7's) to keep the CSI in the 0.00 to -0.30 (negative 0.30) range.

A whole house water softener will provide benefits in addition to keeping your pool CH in check.
Soft water to all faucets, toilets, dishwasher, washer will minimize calcium buildup in pipes/appliances, allow using less soap and help keep your skin from drying out as fast.

Look in your garage near the water heater to see if there is already a soft water loop plumbed in. Many builders have added them in the last 20 years in areas with hard water. If you have one, it makes hooking up the water softener that much easier. If you decide to go that route, we can discuss further. In the mean time, Google - benefits of a water softener

New to pool ownership

Pety,

Removing the plug will not make your main drain work..!!!

You really don't even need a main drain.. Half of the old pools in the country probably don't have an operating main drain.

As new as you are to pools, I would suggest, that for now, you just leave the plug in and move on with getting your pool ready for summer.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
As everything seems to be working fine I will take your advice and just leave it plugged.

Thanks Jim!
  • Like
Reactions: Jimrahbe

Backwash procedure for pool with 2 filters

Simplest/least expensive solution is to replace your flow meter to verify its accuracy. Unfortunately it may be good money after bad as we don’t know that the current flow meter is actually malfunctioning. If you see the same result in flow after that, digging in to deeper solutions is necessary. (Yes call me captain obvious) 🤦‍♂️
  • Like
Reactions: JPMorgan

Annual early-May SLAM... I want to fill this thing in with sand.

Clean the tube with rubbing alcohol and that may Repeat the no CC result.

If the pool passes all three SLAM criteria at once, you can consider it done. Bump it up a bit before you leave for vacation and leave a floater with a few pucks in it.
Thanks! I'll give that a try in the morning. I have a SWCG, so I shouldn't need pucks in a floater, correct?

Calcium Precipitate

The TF-Pro Salt will serve you well.

pH needs to be kept in the 7's. Usually 7.2-7.9 range, based on your other test results.

You can install a whole house water softener and plumb it to your autofill line.
Or you can install a portable RV style softener near your autofill feed line. But the portable softener will need more frequent recharging and it's a manual operation.
Will try to keep managing TA, for sure. Probably stuck with the drain and fill method to keep CH from creeping over 500. Those softeners sound pricey.

Filter