Quick background:
After purchasing a new home that came with a pool, I knew my knowledge was at a solid zero and that I'd need some major help.
We turned to the company that the home's previous owners used to open/close the pool which informed us they no longer serviced our area. So I did some googling and found a highly rated pool store that also offered 'pool school' & on-site walk throughs so they could teach us about our equipment. The guy came out and showed us what everything was equipment wise and how to do the basics of hooking up the vacuum to start the daunting task of clearing the pool floor of the disgusting layer of decaying leaves and worms from the previous Fall (The pool cover had a tear in it).

First red flags:
So now that the pool was 'opened', and we began asking what to do next , we started taking our water samples in every couple days (super inpatient to start using this thing!) After the initial shock at open, the water began to cloud up and turn a teal green, then a darker more algae like green.
This is when the confusion started. The store would test the water and first guy said we couldn't do anything until we get the metal out ( test showed 0.4 of copper). Sold us a bag of CuLater and we were on our way. A couple days later our next test showed the copper now at 0.6 but they didn't even mention that this time and said we had to get our ph up before anything else as their test showed 7.0. I was confused as my home test showed 7.3 and so did our Intellichem system. We took their word for it and bought some Pak 200 PH increaser. The water was really getting ugly at this point and now we had a bio-film covering the surface. That's when I found TFP!

TFP Awakening:
First two things that hit me like a ton of bricks, #1) trust your own tests and not the pool stores, and #2 never let your FC hit 0.0. We'll our FC had been sitting at 0.0 for weeks and our pool store tests showed that. I just figured they knew best and we shouldn't be adding chlorine until the ph was right and all the metals were out. Now that had my trusty TF-Pro test kit (and confirmed my methods with the standard solutions), I was able to confirm their tests were wildly different compared to the TF-Pros, and confirming my PH was indeed 7.3 from several different methods (Strips, Intellichem, TF-Pro & finally a digital meter I purchased separately) I began my SLAM.

My First SLAM:
For anyone doing their first SLAM, the 3 things I'd stress are...
1) Test Often
2) Be Thorough (When brushing, don't forget those ladders, skimmer housings & light niches!)
3) Be Patient
#2 was probably the thing that caused my SLAM to last 3 weeks. The water was clear for a week but I kept failing the OCLT. The pool had been scrubbed top to bottom and I was at my wits end, until TFP came to the rescue again and I found some articles on never-ending SLAMs and how they had some nasties hiding in light niches. Well at night I found that my lights looked like they were 'vaping' into the water (video clips below) and that pretty much confirmed I would have to brave the 60 degree water and pull them out. 3 in the pool & 1 in the attached spa.

Video of my LED light puffing little vape clouds (Change quality to 4k to see the vape puffs) New video by Matthew Malkowski
Video of me taking the light out to clean (Gross!) New video by Matthew Malkowski

Happy Ending!
So after cleaning out my lights, I lost pretty much 0 FC on my next OCLT the night after. I'm now sitting at numbers I'm very happy with (other than TA but I'm OCD) and we've began enjoying the pool every chance we get! The water is CRYSTAL clear (switched from sand to glass fill and it seemed to get my night clarity where I wanted it) I still get my chemicals from the local pool store as I prefer to support local small businesses, but I'll leave the testing up to myself.

Thanks to this website and the whole community on here. I look forward to sharing my pool experiences and questions with you all

FC: 5.5
pH: 7.4
TA: 100
CH: 350
CYA: 70
SALT: 3400

Hey all. Our friend @B.lu needs some help.

B.lu said:

does it seem strange that I would still get flow on the swg at the lowest setting my VSP goes (450). Also, any idea why at 450 the VSP says it uses 135 WT energy but on 38 WT and 39 WT at 550 and 650? Thanks!!!!!

Click to expand...

So we have a possible malfunctioning flow switch to activate so low. At least, unless her pool has stupid flow at 450 RPMs with the 3HP intelliflow.

At first I was thinking the LCD screen had an issue and wasn't showing the '1' of 1450 RPMs, which would align with the 135 Watts displayed at supposedly 450 RPMs. 550 and 650 RPMs draw the appropriate wattages.

When she ramps the RPMs up and down by the hundred with the arrows, the motor volume behaves as expected, all the way down to 450 RPMs which draws more watts and still keeps the SWG on.

We polled 100 people and the Top 5 answers are on the Board.



Her setup

Hello, I order and just received my TFT test kit per recommendations from here. I'm excited to get this handled but a little confused. I've read all the instructions and searched the forums. My questions is, where is the line I fill the cell to? I know this is a silly question but I have not found anything that references that. On my instruction sheet it indicates "fill both side up to the think black". Looks like it may have cut off the wording.
This is the first time I've ever used a kit like this and trying to be as accurate as can be.

Also, I ordered the smart stir and no instructions for that at all. Please help this green newbie girl out!

Hi all! I’m curious how high above the water line a margarita table should be? I’m worried about some splashing causing my precious beverages to spill. Thank you!!

The June contest is here! Featured - TFP Pool of the Month (June 2022); Theme - Water Clarity Come look at what your pool can look like once you get it TFP clear!

Be there.



Enter for a chance to win

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TFP members, the TFP “Pool of the Month” contest for June 2022 begins now! it’s time to show-off your pool - water clarity that is! Rules are as follows:

1. On the first of each month, a contest "theme" will be announced (i.e. water clarity, family fun, decking, custom features, lighting, scenery, etc)
2. Members have 5 days to upload ONE image for consideration; Photo must be related to the thread titled theme for that month.
3. Per general TFP rules, nothing profane, political, or insulting.
4. The first 5 days is the submission period. Posts are limited to ONE image ONLY. No discussion posts yet. This will make viewing much easier for all.
5. Days 6 & 7 are the final voting period. No more uploads. Viewers now have a final opportunity to vote (or modify their selection) for their favorite upload.
6. Members are encouraged to use an emotion icon ("Like" or "Love") to vote for their favorite upload; it will be tough, but select only one favorite.
7. On day 8, emotion Likes/Loves will be tallied for a winner. In the event of a tie, we will create a poll on the thread to make a final selection.
8. Once a winner is announced, comments/discussions are welcomed. Winner and nominees can tell us all about their pool/photo/event.
9. A member can only be selected as winner once per calendar year.
10. Winner will receive a $50 gift certificate from tstestkits.net! Oh, and maybe some bragging rights.

This should be fun. Showcase your pool and hard work. Let’s see those pics! Have fun and good luck to those who apply!

Friend: Wow, your water looks amazing. I How do you get it so crystal clear?
Me: Maintaining water chemistry & a little brushing and vacuuming.
Friend: Well whenever I get my water tested, I always need to add chemicals and it still doesn't look clear.
Me: Let me guess, you test at the pool store.
Friend: Well they test for free.
Me: Do you want me to help you?
Friend: Sure

So I run a full set of tests, and of course they don't match the pool store tests:
FC: 4
CC: 2
PH: 8.0
TA: 110
CH: 250
CYA: 160

He uses dichlor & trichlor exclusively. I told him his stabilizer is way too high and we need to get that down first.

Me: We need to drain and refill the pool with at least 60% exchange.
Friend: I'm not doing that, can't we just add something to remove the stabilizer.
Me: You also need to switch to liquid chlorine or get a SWCG.
Friend: I'm not doing that, I just invested over $400 on shock and pucks.

I tried showing him articles and charts from TFP, to prove that the high stabilizer levels needed to be corrected, then enough chlorine added to kill the algea, but he wants no part of a partial drain & refill. Then he insisted the people at the pool store will have solutions and that my testing is giving bad readings.

Needless to say, you can't help the unwilling, and I'm not swimming in that pool.

Got an early start this year. Opened our pool on Saturday. It was very clear. Filter has been running with an automatic chlorinator. Started getting a little cloudy that. Tested water, here is what I got.

FC 5.5
CC 1.0
ph 7.2
TA 50
CYA 40
Pool temp 74 degrees

This is the first time in 3 years that the pool is clear when opening. Thanks for all your help these past 2 years.

I posted earlier about my foray into pool ownership this year. Added CYA a few days ago. Tri-chlor is done as of today. Took my readings with my new test kits and these are the results:

FC - 5
CC - 0
PH - 7.6
TA - 100
CH - 140
CYA - 50 - 55 (Taylor Kit vs. the TF-Pro)

So if I understand correctly, pretty much just Muratic Acid to drop PH occasionally and add liquid chlorine as needed to stay within 5-10% of CYA?

Hey all !! I’ve been doing this for years but finally got good pics to show the difference. I have a standard 1/3 HP submersible pump withshown here



Flow from 100ft 3/4 inch hose.



Here comes the fun part : In the sprinkler section of the home centers / hardware store they have 3/4 threaded adapters to upsize them with a nipple to 1.5 inch sprinkler pipe. Shown here :



With about 75ft of 1.5 inch sprinkler pipe it’s pretty much a fire hose from the same pump


Now, sure, Being 25 ft shorter than a 100ft garden hose it will of course have slightly better flow on its own, but nowhere near the gains seen above.

I am trying to see if I can simplify my life by switching to testing strips to cover some of the tests that I do on our pool. I purchased a batch of the AquaChek 7-way test strips and I compared it today to the results I got with my Taylor FAS-DPD kit:
CL: 14 ppm Taylor vs 10 ppm AquaCheck
FreeCl: 0 ppm vs 10 ppm
pH: 7.8 vs 7.2
Alk: 80 vs 40
TH: 150 vs 500
CYA: 80 vs 30 - 50

I was hoping that at least 2 or 3 of the tests would have comparable results, but none of them really matched closely.

Another oddity was that I have never registered a FreeCL reading using my Taylor kit (which also seemed weird to me) and the test strips showed a reading of 10 ppm.

I am planning on repeating the comparison a couple more times, but I wanted to hear if anyone else has had some success using the test strips.

Hi all. I am building a pool and so I am starting to research how to maintain it myself. What I have read about pool chemistry all makes sense to me except for the following question I have...

I understand that CYA is a chlorine stabilizer that you need for an outdoor pool. I also understand that you need the right balance and if you have too much CYA, you get chlorine lock. Also, the only way to lower CYA is to do a partial drain and then dilute with fresh water.

My question(s):
Using the chlorine tablets seems like the way I will probably go. Won't using chlorine tablets as the main chlorination method eventually accumulate too much CYA, since you cannot reduce CYA without draining? How do people use chlorine tablets as their main chlorination method without draining from time to time? Or am I missing something?

This one is going to be unique, pictures of the plan and the start of the dig are attached. We can’t wait to see the final product. Any advice or thoughts please don’t hesitate to chime in…

One quick comment please disregard the mess on my Carriage House porch, we literally just moved in this past week and the pool dig started at the same time the movers were here.

Here are some pool/equipment details
- 36’ on each side, 3’6”-7’ water depth (deep part is where the color blue gets darker)
- Sun Shelf with 2 bubblers and umbrella sleeves
- 8‘ diameter 360 degree spill over spa
- 2 Fire Bowls on columns at each side of the 1/4 circle
- 3 deck jets equal distance apart on the 1/4 circle
- 5 lights, 2 microbrites on tanning ledge facing away from house, 1 in spa, 2 intellibrite 5G lights
- 400k pentair propane heater (mostly to heat up spa quickly)
- Pentair Heat Pump/Chiller
- 2 Pentair VSP
- Pentair CCP 520 Cartridge Filter
- Pentair IC60 SWG
- Intellicenter Automation
- 500 gallon propane tank

I will follow this with some finishes that are finalized…..

We are new pool owners, and just getting started with the TFP method. We like DIY and the "just what is needed" approach.

We did have a pool service open the pool yesterday (winter cover taken off, pool brushed, vacuum), because we wanted someone to show us how the filter, heater, skimmers etc work. From a chemical perspective I understand that wasn't ideal, but we did need the in-person tutorial. They added liquid chlorine shock, and some other chemicals which I didn't manage to catch.

We are ready to take over for rest of season ourselves, and have 3 questions for getting started:

• When should we do our first baseline test? The pool service recommended we let their chemicals circulate with filter running fulltime for 48 hrs, and then doing our first test. Does that sound accurate? (I've attached pictures of what the pool looks like 24 hours after first open, water is semi-clear, some debris/algae which we need to vacuum and sweep out again)
• We don't know for 100% certainty the pool type and volume, as we can't get in touch w/ former owners. The pool service yesterday said it was fiberglass, and it's roughly 16x40 (not sure depth yet but about 3-8 feet) so I calculate ~20k gallon volume. How important is it for the chemicals that we have 100% accuracy on both of these? (especially volume)
• Will using a dark mesh pool safety cover when the pool isn't in use harm the pool / cover? The pool service said we need to leave it uncovered at least for the next couple days as the open chemicals will "burn" the cover. We prefer to keep the cover on for safety, heat maintenance (and because I thought chemicals burned off less?) Note: we want an automatic cover, install time is end of season right now and we have very young kids so want protection at all times.

We've already purchased all of the key chemicals from the TFP list, and have a Taylor test kit, so are ready to get started.

Thanks for the help!

HELP ... New pool owner still learning. I've studied the TFP site. I ordered the Taylor 2006c test kit. Test results are below. Pool was opened on 4/27 and was very green/brown. It turned blue rather quickly but is still super cloudy. I cannot see the main drain at the bottom. Up until now I have been taking samples to the pool store and following their advice. They always say my test shows all levels are good and to just keep monitoring chlorine and brushing/vacuuming. Saying "it will come around " My last trip to pool store 5/14 they had me add 6 lbs of stabilizer, instructed not backwash for 7 days. Also to treat with Pool First Aid every other day. I did the Pool First Aid twice this week as that was the amount of applications in the bottle. We have ran the dolphin 1-3x per day at least since then. It's been weeks and no change in the cloudiness. I'm at a loss.

22,000 gal, sand filter running 24/7, in line chlorinator.

FC - 5.2
CC - .2
PH - 7.4
TA - 110 ppm
CH - 270
CYA - 45 ppm

Send help

Thank you, lads and ladies. I followed your advice and I stuck with it and i fixed my pool problem. I'm just posting so that someone else in my situation will have the info to stick with the program.

I opened my pool to a slightly green tinge. Not nearly to the extent of the pictures you see on the net, but still greenish.

I had a bottle of algicide from the year before, so I put it in. Why not, right? I also put a full chlorine pack into my frog chlorinator. Result was water that went from greenish cloudy to just cloudy.

National pool store gave me a 9 part plan, but I only followed the first 3. I put in 3 pounds of shock at night, I put in their metal cleaning pack and liquid, and I used their "clarifier" Results: Probably nothing. I wanted to see something so I thought I did, but, honestly, probably not. So I went back 3 days later. Water still very cloudy.

They reported much less copper, still no chlorine, and sky high phosphates. 6000. They wanted me to reduce the phosphates with their product. 48 ounces - wait 48 hours - backwash - repeat. for 3.5 gallons at about $60 per gallon.

I said "That will take weeks!" They said "Yes!" I said "but why is there no chlorine? My pack is almost empty." They said "The chlorine must be attacking the phosphates." I thought that didn't sound right.

Found this forum, read the forum and decided to go for it. Bought the test kit. Arrived in record time.

The poolmath told me to put in 3 gallons of bleach. I thought they were crazy but I did it. I saw the posts saying to test hourly. I thought they were also crazy but I did that too. Another gallon of bleach and another gallon of bleach and another gallon of bleach.

My pool turned from kinda clear to absolutely clouded. I couldn’t see the bottom.

My wife came home and saw me hovered over a frankenstein-sized test kit surrounded by gallons of bleach. “I read it on the Internet!” I said calmly. “So it must be true.” She backed away holding the dog in front of her like a human shield.

The demand for bleach declined, but the cloudiness remained. In two days, I was keeping my chlorine level and the combined chlorine (originally 1.5) had declined to between .5 and 1.

I read about a skimmer sock and I decided to give it a try. Put it in at night, and by morning the pool was significantly cleaner and the sock was absolutely gross. I changed it.
Next morning I changed the sock again (disgusting again) and the water was absolutely clear. Today, the 4th day, I recorded no combined chlorine and the pool is crystal clear. I can’t do an overnight test because of rain. Combined Chlorine is zero.

I will probably try to remove the phosphate levels over the course of the summer, if only because I don’t want to see Yoda hanging out in my pool next spring, but for anyone coming to this forum:

Phosphates are not clouding your water! Mine are 6000 and the water is clear!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. You men and women saved my summer for my kid. Best money I ever spent and I will be a supporter for as long as i own a pool.

- librarybill

For those that may be interested-
I decided to find a glass beaker that I can use for the DPD testing - The powder is so abrasive that the plastic cylinders get pretty messed up, pretty quick.

Found one that will fit the Speedstir (smaller than 1.29" - 32.7mm Dia). Took a while to actually find one that is small enough to fit on the Speedstir!

Eisco Labs 25ml -SKU CH0127A : Borosilicate Glass / 30mm Dia

Ordered 2 of them
Ordered from Walmart (I know, not where I would have expected to get one!)

When we built the pool, I decided against full automation for a variety of reasons including cost, the proprietary nature of available devices, and the fear an expensive system would quickly become obsolete and unsupported. I've seen a few forums members using Raspberry PI and Arduino controllers, but that kind of technology is way above my (retired) pay grade. If your preference is high tech automation or you have programming skills no reason to read on.

I've been kicking around the idea of using a WIFI irrigation controller to control valve actuators and VS pump speeds. Valve actuators require 24 VAC power (same as most irrigation controllers) and draw .75 amps. I purchased four Intermatic valve actuators at a cost of just under $400 and hijacked the Rachio irrigation timer out of the garage. I used Alexa to set up "routines" activated by voice. Routines allow the user to set turn on/off a series of connected devices in succession, with or without pauses. The system worked good, but since an irrigation controller will power only one zone (valve) at a time, transitions between pool, spa, waterfall, and cleaner modes were taking several minutes.

I ended up purchasing two 4-channel WiFi switches at a cost of about $22 each. Through the Ewelink Smart Home app, each channel is recognized by Alexa as an individual device. The module is powered by hardwired 7-32 volts AC/DC or USB 5 volts. Since my system already used a 24 VAC transformer to power the Intellicomm II Interface Adapter, I used this to power both the modules and the valve actuators. When purchasing a power source, choose one that puts out 24 VAC power and can handle the amperage draw of all valves combined.

I've included a photo of the relay board below. Each valve actuator can be run in both directions off one relay. Each relay has three connections: Common (24 VAC power), NC (normally closed) and NO (normally open). The actuators have three connections. The black lead goes to the other side of the AC power. The other two actuator leads (red and white) power the valve in separate directions. One lead goes to NC and the other to NO. When power is shut off, the motor turns one way and when powered up, it turns the other way. A limit switch in the actuator cuts power to the motor when the valve reaches it's resting position.

The Intellicomm II Interface Adapter installed in my system allowed external control of four pump speeds via the Intelliflo VS data cable. I had two inputs wired to mechanical timers and two to rocker switches in the load center. I wired into two of the four inputs and connected each to an individual relay on the second 4-channel Wifi switch. Each is recognized by Alexa as a device (Pump Low Speed and Pump Med Speed). I left alone two of the mechanical timer and switch inputs on the Intellicomm, but may connect them to the open relays in the future.

I named my valves "Pool Return" "Pool Suction" "Cleaner" and "Waterfall". When "Pool Return" is set to ON, water goes to the pool. When OFF, water goes to the spa. When "Pool Suction" is set to ON, water comes from the pool. When OFF, water comes from the spa. Same idea holds true for the two remaining valves.

I programmed four individual routines in the Alexa app, Pool Mode, Spa Mode, Waterfall Mode, and Cleaner mode. I included a screenshot of the Pool Mode program below. The first three modes above are intended for use when the pool is in use. Modes can be changed through Alexa by voice or by buttons in the routines section of the app. I found the system operates flawlessly, so far. I'm gonna work on daily schedules, but for now, the pump will remain on the reliable mechanical timer or an internal pump program.

I used a Rachio outdoor enclosure ($30) to house the switches and mounted it above my load center. The relays have four manual switches which correspond with the relay assignments...something that may come in handy for manual control of individual valves or pump speeds. The WiFi switch I purchased also comes with a remote (a bit of a novelty). Each button can be programmed to control on/off functions of several relays. It won't get much use.

I know this won't be everyone's cup of tea, but it works out great for my needs. Total cost (excluding the actuators) was about under $100. Add to that a few bucks for a 24VAC transformer and you have full automation of the valves. Pump control is dependent upon your own set up.

I’ve been a proud member of the liquid chlorine club the past two years, and haven’t been able to talk myself into a SWG.

A season’s worth of LC only costs me about $120 - and even this year we’re still at $4/gallon for 12.5%.

The cost of trichlor to accommodate the occasional vacation, though, looks pretty ugly this year.

While I still couldn’t bring myself to pay $800+ for one of the popular units, I came across a Solaxx Saltron Reliant CLG220A, which uses their 25K R5 cell, but comes in a kit designed for above ground pools, for only $550.

Taking a bit of a gamble as I couldn’t find many reviews on this unit - which is also in part why I’m posting this to document my experience.

To break even, I need it to last ~ 4 years. That covers my annual LC cost plus the cost of a bucket of tabs for vacations.

It has a 2 year warranty, and I purchased with a credit card that gives me an extra year — so year 4 will be the gambling year.

Strangely, the going price for this SWG appears to be $669, but it’s only $549 via Walmart.com “sold by Pool Supplies Superstore”. Pool Supplies Superstore is Doheny, and that’s who it shipped from, even though it’s $669 from Doheny directly. Go figure.

Water is still too cold to test it out, but I’ll be sure to provide feedback once it’s running and keep this thread updated with its longevity.

I have had black algae during a long time. I have tried to get rid of it with brushing and chock chlorinating. But I haven't succeded.
No I will try hard to really get rid of it. I just want to check with you that can this, if i have the right chlorine.
I have 5 kg granulated chlorine. The name is Sunbrite and it is TCCA 90 %
I have seen there also is 60% chlorine
I have seen recomendation of 450 g per 10,000 gallon.
Is this for 60% chlorine?
If so, perhaps I should take 300 g with 90 % chlorine?

Watching this crew tear down the old and put up the new in 2hr 10 min made me very happy that I decided to write the check and supervise rather than DIY.

2 Questions:
I forgot to ask them to install my aqualuminator return eyeball so the stock is there. Should I swap that out now or better to wait until water level is at least a couple of feet to better set the liner?

There is a trench dugout around the perimeter of the pool and it is supposed to rain quite a bit next few days, seems like a risk of washout? Is it best to wait to fill it in until water level is higher and what materiaI is best to fill it in with?

Thx

I have a question on liquid stabilizer. I opened the pool yesterday and basically have a CYA reading of 0. (In-ground vinyl pool.) I use a mesh safety cover and partially drain the pool each closing and it gets new water throughout the winter, but there's usually some readable but low CYA level.

I just got back from buying the usual dry crystal cyanuric acid, (didn't add it yet), but now I'm thinking I should have bought the liquid stabilizer I saw in Leslie's just to get it dissolved right away. Aside from cost is there any other negative to using the liquid vs the dry?

Will the CYA readings using the Taylor tests kits still be accurate? (I saw the liquid is a salt of some kind and I'm not sure if it becomes CYA once added and if the CYA test reagents can still read it.)

Thank you.

Hello! I got my test kit last summer and ordered the one with the PH meter. I’ve never really felt it was very accurate and have struggles to trust it.
This summer I decided to try again and I am attempting to recalibrate it and it’s just rapidly and randomly changing numbers (number scale is all over the place). I’ve tried adjusting with the screwdriver and it’s not moving/changing anything.
How reliable are these things? Am I wasting my time?

New bullfrog A8. Temp drops about 1 degree every 30 min. Ambient 50-60 degrees. Tried set at 102 for wife and I (drops to 99 then we get out. Set for 99 for the kiddo and it’s 97 within an hour.

With the cover on it eventually gets back to set temp. Am I expecting too much for the hot tub to stay at temp for more than 30m?

I cannot believe it. What kind of human being would do this Crud? Ugh so livid and disappointed right now. I woke up this morning to my pool with dog poo, sand, dog food, rocks and other debris in my pool and deck. Their 8 yr old kids were playing in the trampoline and threw all this junk over. Pool guy is coming over to treat it in the morning. My husband took out as much of the junk in the pool the best that he could. Turned off the pump and cleaned out the skimmer which was filled with dog food. Anything else we could do in the meantime? This is a new pool too only 2 yrs. Should we drain a bit of the water? Gross. Just thinking about makes my stomach ill.

So I needed a 6x6" piece of 1/2" plate steel to make a tool to degree the camshaft in the Triumph GT-6 my sons and I are restoring. Called the neighbor and sure enough - he had one. It was just attached to a generator sled he pulled out of a local factory when it shut down 20 years back because, well, you never know when you might need one.

We went straight out there, pulled it out of the tree line, cut a piece of plate off with the torch, and I'm on my way. My kids will very likely see a time when this is no longer a thing, and it makes me kind of sad to think about it. The skills gap is real, and the type of people who frequent this sort of site are the people who can see to it that this kind of event doesn't die out altogether.

To all the mods, experts, regular contributors - thanks for doing your part to keep resourcefulness alive. America will not remain a free society without it.

In recent years, calcium crystals have been forming during the winter at a higher rate in some newly plastered swimming pools. From the reports we have heard, this problem seems to occur more often in the northeast of the country. Apparently, pool builders, plasterers, and service techs involved have not been able to determine the cause of these sharp and abrasive crystals and how to prevent them from forming on new plaster surfaces, including quartz and pebble.

(It should be noted that calcium crystals are different in appearance and form than the typical calcium scale that develops due to high pH and/or hard water), or calcium nodules that develop due to plaster delamination (bond failure) and in cracks.

Some think that the root cause of calcium crystal formation is aggressive water. More specifically, the theory is that some pools are not being properly winterized and adjusted for the soon-to-be lower and cold-water temperatures that can make water aggressive (See LSI). Also, that calcium from the plaster is being dissolved by aggressive water and then somehow that causes calcium crystals to start growing on the plaster surface.

That raises some questions. If aggressive water is dissolving calcium carbonate, how does it also form and grow calcium carbonate crystals at the same time? Has the plaster surface been analyzed for LSI aggressive water attack for confirmation? Why don’t all plaster pools with aggressive water develop crystals? Of course, aggressive water doesn't add up as a credible cause.

Let’s explore some other possibilities for this crystal phenomenon.

Plaster Issues

What is not widely known in our industry is that when plaster workmanship is poor, two forms of soluble calcium can dissolve out of new plaster, without the water even being aggressive. Yes, in water that is perfectly balanced. Those plaster components are calcium hydroxide, and calcium chloride. When those two compounds “bleed” into the pool water, that increases the pH, alkalinity, and calcium level. Those increases should not automatically be assumed to have been caused by LSI aggressive water. It may be due to poorly made plaster.

It is worthy to note that the concrete and cement industry (ACI and PCA) acknowledges that cement quality, or lack thereof, plays a huge role in the amount of efflorescence and/or dusting (among other problems and defects) that develops on new concrete finishes. They have identified high water content while mixing, high calcium chloride content, and poor troweling techniques (excessive water troweling) as reasons leading to a weak, porous, and micro-cracking cement finish. Those are issues that enable efflorescence (calcium) to form on cement surfaces. Is pool plaster much different?

Are some plasterers adding extra calcium chloride to plaster mixes during colder temperatures to speed up the plastering process, so that it doesn’t take all day? Does this lead to calcium hydroxide and calcium chloride dissolving out of plaster regardless of the water balance, thereby increasing the pH, alkalinity, and calcium levels? Could this be a recipe for calcium crystals to develop? Yes.

Chemical Start-up Issues

Differences in startup chemistry processes can have a significant impact on new plaster surfaces. For twenty-five years, onBalance’s Bicarb startup (Positive LSI startup) has shown to help prevent “plaster dust” from forming in new plaster pools. Would that startup program help negate crystal formation over the winter?

The NPC’s Traditional startup does NOT prevent plaster dust in newly plastered pools. In fact, it enables it. A lot of plaster dust means that the plaster surface has lost material and becomes more porous which can lead to more soluble plaster material being easily dissolved out. Does this startup program contribute to the crystal formation problem?

We all know that improper water chemistry can lead to various problems. But it is obvious that there are other issues (and the plaster itself) that need to be investigated and analyzed to determine the cause(s) and prevention of wintertime crystals.

First time pool owner last summer, first closing in October, opened this week, upstate NY. Today in for 1 st time. Our weather is 95! My water looks pristine following TFP methods, no pool store chemicals. Salt was low 1200, ideal for my 13,5000 gallon pool is 3200. Added 5 bags of salt today. Turned on SWG and its running. Chlorine is at 4 ppm, CYA is 50. I guess right now I’ll just keep testing the salt. When I opened the pool, I had for 4 ppm Chlorine so I guess I did good. Using the Taylor kit for testing.
Question I am using regular store bought 6% bleach not splash less, this is correct?