Questions before installing new Pentair Intellicenter w/ MasterTemp 400 tomorrow

[JulianCaesar]

Hi friends,

My existing pool has an Intelliflo VSF pump, Pentair cartridge filter, and is not saltwater. It does not yet have a control system of any kind (no EasyTouch, Intellicenter, etc).
Tomorrow our pool builder will install an Pentair IntelliCenter i8PSIC40 Kit and a MasterTemp 400k natural gas heater. We will drain the pool to update the drain cover for anti-entrapment and replace the light with a low voltage setup.

Is there anything in particular to watch out for? (I'll be home while the work is being done.) We are going with Pentair equipment as listed above. This builder had told me he preferred Jandy but didn't have any problems doing Pentair instead. I just get the feeling he is doing Jandy systems 95% of the time, so maybe he doesn't know all the ins and outs of the Pentair systems, hence my questions below.

My questions are:
1. Should the MasterTemp 400 heater be connected to Intellicenter via the RS-485 port or the "Fireman's Switch"?

2. I have an Intelliflow VSF pump, it says "THP 3.95 WEF 6.9" on the side and the number "356944" on the label. I think that it is NOT the Intelliflo 3 however.
I have read here on TFP that some Intelliflo pumps have bugs with RS-485, that are possibly fixed with a firmware update.
How can I tell if my pump would be affected or have one of the bad versions of the firmware? The builder is a Pentair dealer, so I assume they would be able to update firmware, or does it require a tech from Pentair to come out?

3. Is there anything else I should be aware of or look out for in terms of things to be aware of when they are wiring all this up? Is there anything to be aware of in terms of how to program the Intellicenter system? (Common mistakes, etc.)

Thank you

 

[bradgray]

Quick reply before I fall asleep.

1) We still wire everything through the fireman switch. I prefer it simple. Troubleshooting is easier this way.
2) Firmware vers is written on the drive at the back. Also access under Settings > Device. Your builder will not be able to reflash it. We use a special software and a gearmo adapter. Call Pentair if your firmware is 3.03/4.
3) That's a loaded question! I'll let others chime in while I rest my eyes.

 

[ajw22]

Wire the MasterTemp using RS-485. That provides heater diagnostic messages to the Intellicenter and let’s the heater directly do the temperature control.

Check the firmware version on your pump display. IntelliFlo firmware V3.03 & V3.04 in 011028 or 011056 pumps or IntelliFlo3 pumps can cause intermittent RS-485 connection problems. The IntelliCenter should give you a message if it detects the bad firmware. Read Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

Your installer should read the installation manual and follow it. VS pumps should be wired to constant power. SWG transformer must be wired through LOAD side if filter pump relay.

Update IntelliCenter firmware before you begin any setup or programming.

Pentair instructions for getting the panel connected to your network and Pentair servers is very confusing.

lots of information in …

Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair MasterTemp Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Intellichlor ICXX SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JulianCaesar]

Thanks for the info so far guys!

The Intelliflo pump has a sticker that includes this:
"SW Ver.: 2.11 (BLV 2 3)"

I assume this means firmware version 2.11. Is this fine?

Anyone else care to weigh in on whether to connect the MasterTemp via RS-485 or the fireman's switch?

 

[JulianCaesar]

@Jimrahbe any opinions on whether to connect the heater with RS-485 or fireman’s switch?

 

[bradgray]

The Intelliflo pump has a sticker that includes this:
"SW Ver.: 2.11 (BLV 2 3)"

I assume this means firmware version 2.11. Is this fine?

It's a sign you're ok. But check the drive using the built-in topside. Settings > Device.

I've had drives say one thing and be another.

 

[Jimrahbe]

any opinions on whether to connect the heater with RS-485 or fireman’s switch?

Julian,

I agree with Brad, that wiring through the fireman's switch is simple and easy to troubleshoot.

That said, I have simple pool with no heater, so no direct experience..

If I were in your shoes, I'd initially wire using the RS-485, and if it fired right up, great.. If not, I'd rewire to the fireman's switch.. I don't see a big advantage to using the RS-485, so I would not spend too much time getting it to work.

Some things that have already been covered... but worth repeating..

The IC40's transformer must be wired to the load side of the pump filter relay. This relay does NOT control the pump, it just comes on when the pump should be running. The pump should get constant AC power...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JulianCaesar]

@Jimrahbe thanks for all your help! The PB did the install on Friday and it works great. He wired the MasterTemp via the RS-485 cable and it is working really well. Both the MasterTemp and the IC40 transformer are connected to the load side of the filter pump relay.

We had some confusion getting the system online and had to call Pentair support who told us to update the firmware to 1.064, which had to be done via USB thumb drive. It was easy though and everything is working very well with one minor exception.

The only outstanding issue is that even though I have an Intelliflow VSF pump, if you add it as a type VSF pump then it works briefly showing GPM etc but the second you try to change the pump speed you get a disconnect error from the center whereas if it’s connected as just a VS pump, then it stays connected and works great no problem. I called Pentair and they said it’s probably a firmware issue so I’m working on getting them to come out and do a firmware update to move it up from 2.11.

The only issue is that they want the serial number, but the sticker that should have the serial number on it appears missing from my pump. It came with the house which I bought 6 weeks ago. I sent the Pentair support guy pictures by email of all the stickers on the pump and he said none of them are the serial number. If anyone knows a way to get the serial number of the pump aside from the sticker on the outside, that would be super helpful.

Thanks for all the help everyone. This forum is great!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Julian,

There is just no reason to run as a VSF pump.. No one needs the GPM mode. Just set the pump as a VS pump and move on.

Show us the labels on the pump.

Note.. Not sure about the IntelliCenter, but the EasyTouch will delete all circuit speeds, if you change the pump type.. Just a heads up it case it happens to you.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JulianCaesar]

Hi Jim,

Of course no one needs the GPM mode ;-), but I like to see the readout of the GPM flow as the pump is running.

I've attached pics of the labels. I've seen a pic of what the serial number label looks like, and it looks like it probably got peeled off of mine at some point.

Separate question, how important is having an automatic bypass kit for the heater?

Thanks!
J

 

[Jimrahbe]

J,

Give me one valid reason that you need to know the GPM...

In most cases, you have to run the pump faster when the water goes through the heater.. If you don't use your heater very often, then it makes sense to install a heater bypass.. The slower you can run your pump, the less it costs, and the quieter the pump will be.

It is not really a huge deal, either way..

Thanks,

Jim R.,

 

[bradgray]

Hi Jim,

Of course no one needs the GPM mode ;-), but I like to see the readout of the GPM flow as the pump is running.

I've attached pics of the labels. I've seen a pic of what the serial number label looks like, and it looks like it probably got peeled off of mine at some point.

Separate question, how important is having an automatic bypass kit for the heater?

Thanks!
J

The serial on the pump is technically less important than the model and firmware on the drive. You do have that, so you can provide that to Pentair.

 

[JulianCaesar]

The guy on the phone at Pentair really wanted the serial number. He even gave me his email address to send him pictures of the stickers on the pump, which I did and he said none of those are the serial number.

Another issue is that even putting aside VSF and having it configured as VS, it still disconnects if you try to do anything like set up a new circuit with a higher speed and try to set it to that. The only way to get it to come back and respond to anything at all was to delete the pump and re-add it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

another issue is that even putting aside VSF and having it configured as VS, it still disconnects if you try to do anything like set up a new circuit with a higher speed and try to set it to that.

Julian,

That does not sound correct at all... Changing speeds really has nothing to do with how the com port works..

Does your pump have constant AC power, or is it connected to the load side of your Pump/Filter relay??? If connected to the P/F relay, I can see how a new speed could shut the pump off.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bradgray]

The guy on the phone at Pentair really wanted the serial number. He even gave me his email address to send him pictures of the stickers on the pump, which I did and he said none of those are the serial number.

Unless it was previously registered or has had warranty work done, you don't have it and can't get it.

But you do have the drive information. The drive is the square component on top of your motor. It's the "brain" of your motor and that is the part of the pump that communicates with your automation. Model is 356944. Firmware 2.11.

We replace failed drives frequently. Models and firmwares can be different, and they come with their own serials. You can see how this is problematic when using the original pump serial in that case when calling in an issue.

I'm just trying to make the point that everything else on that pump other than your drive is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

You probably expect this, but even without your serial I can tell you given the firmware version, your pump is well past warranty so your free advice from Pentair will be conditional on the attitude of the person you manage to snag that day.

 

[JulianCaesar]

Julian,

That does not sound correct at all... Changing speeds really has nothing to do with how the com port works..

Does your pump have constant AC power, or is it connected to the load side of your Pump/Filter relay??? If connected to the P/F relay, I can see how a new speed could shut the pump off.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim, the pump is connected correctly. It has constant power and is controlled by the Intellicenter system via the RS-485 cable. When I switch off pool mode, the pump stops but remains powered (can tell from screen when power is cut, for example if I switch off the pump's breaker), but the MasterTemp and Intellchlor, which are both connected to the filter pump relay, lose power.

I spoke to Pentair support on Friday. I ended up getting transferred to the Intellicenter group and spoke with someone there. He said that 2.11 was not a problem firmware and therefore that there is no reason related to firmware that I should be getting all these disconnects. He mentioned 3.03/3.04 as the "problem" firmwares, and said that as long as it wasn't one of those 2, I should be fine.

He mentioned how to do a Factory Reset of the pump.

Once I was back at home, I did the Factory Reset, and voila!, everything is working well now. I was able to add the pump as VSF and also add more circuits with higher speeds, etc. From there I was able to select the circuits and have had it working perfectly. Before even as a VS pump I simply could not get it to power the pump with any mode other thing just "Pool" switched on. Now I can create "Pool High" or something with a higher RPM, and when I select that circuit to turn it on, the higher speed kicks in right away, with no "Connection Lost" message about my pump. Nothing else I had previously tried, such as power cycling the entire system, disconnecting and reconnecting the cable, deleting the pump and re-adding it (many times), etc, had helped at all.

To do a factory reset of the Pentair Intelliflo VSF pump, these are the steps for reference:
1. Disconnect RS-485 cable, but leave power on.
2. On the keypad/display go to the screen that shows the Firmware, which is under Devices. Mine said, "2.11-VSF" on it.
3. Push all 4 preset buttons, labelled 1, 2, 3, 4 at the same time. You will see a screen that says something like, "Backdoor reset? 0000."
4. Push Select button.
5. Push up arrow. Backdoor reset will change to "0001."
6. Push Save button.
7. Turn off pump via the breaker, and leave it off for at least 3 minutes (according to the Pentair guy).
8. Turn it back on.
9. Reconnect RS-485 cable.

I had been fiddling with this pump for days, with no success until I tried this Factory Reset.

Hopefully this is helpful to someone else going thru the same thing!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Julian,

Glad you got it working..

Thanks for the Factory reset info..

Jim R.