Shaft Seal Leak on One-Year-Old IntelliFlo VSF

[DavidArmenB]

I already replaced it with the “better quality” Seal (Chemical/Salt Resistant, P/N: 071732S) from the Seal Quick Kit (P/N: 356198) together with the rest of the o-rings and gasket, but I am very surprised this already happened, since I bought the pump (P/N: 011056) brand new last September. Never ran dry. It runs 24/7 at 1250rpm, there are no leaks in my plumbing, and the pump basket has always been full of water with zero bubbling at the returns etc.

I have always maintained the chemistry by myself.
December 28 results (very typical):
Temp: 52f
pH: 7.8
FC: 10ppm
Total Alkalinity: 70ppm
Calcium Hardness: 325ppm
CYA: 80ppm
Salt: 3,200ppm



I was happy that I caught it quickly, before it spread to the motor shaft seal and/or corroded the motor body. There was just a little bit of surface corrosion that 1000 grit sandpaper took care of (photos are of before).

 

[Jimrahbe]

David,

I have no idea what the problem might be, but for a look at the other side of the coin... I have three IntelliFlo pumps that have been running 24/7 at 1200 RPM most of the time, and they have zero signs of any seal leaks.. They are all on saltwater pools and are between 9 and 12 years old. They all have the original 'standard' seal that comes from the factory.

I can only assume that the quality of the current seals is not what it was 10 years ago. Sigh!!!

Good job catching it early...

Let's see what @JamesW has to say about it..

Thanks for the great pics...

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

It looks like you used to have a tab feeder.

Maybe chemical attack from the tabs.

 

[DavidArmenB]

It looks like you used to have a tab feeder.

Maybe chemical attack from the tabs.

View attachment 547700

That’s correct. When I purchased the pump and filter, I plumbed it as per the photo you posted as a temporary measure for only about three weeks before I got the heater and SWCG, at which time I completely replumbed everything. Those three weeks late last year could have possibly done something to the pump but it didn’t start visibly leaking until at most two weeks ago.

Here is a photo of current pad, been this way since late last year.

 

[JamesW]

It looks like tab juice exposure to me.

 

[1poolman1]

View attachment 547675

I already replaced it with the “better quality” Seal (Chemical/Salt Resistant, P/N: 071732S) from the Seal Quick Kit (P/N: 356198) together with the rest of the o-rings and gasket, but I am very surprised this already happened, since I bought the pump (P/N: 011056) brand new last September. Never ran dry. It runs 24/7 at 1250rpm, there are no leaks in my plumbing, and the pump basket has always been full of water with zero bubbling at the returns etc.

I have always maintained the chemistry by myself.
December 28 results (very typical):
Temp: 52f
pH: 7.8
FC: 10ppm
Total Alkalinity: 70ppm
Calcium Hardness: 325ppm
CYA: 80ppm
Salt: 3,200ppm

View attachment 547676View attachment 547678View attachment 547677View attachment 547679View attachment 547680View attachment 547683
View attachment 547685
I was happy that I caught it quickly, before it spread to the motor shaft seal and/or corroded the motor body. There was just a little bit of surface corrosion that 1000 grit sandpaper took care of (photos are of before).
View attachment 547681

View attachment 547675

I already replaced it with the “better quality” Seal (Chemical/Salt Resistant, P/N: 071732S) from the Seal Quick Kit (P/N: 356198) together with the rest of the o-rings and gasket, but I am very surprised this already happened, since I bought the pump (P/N: 011056) brand new last September. Never ran dry. It runs 24/7 at 1250rpm, there are no leaks in my plumbing, and the pump basket has always been full of water with zero bubbling at the returns etc.

I have always maintained the chemistry by myself.
December 28 results (very typical):
Temp: 52f
pH: 7.8
FC: 10ppm
Total Alkalinity: 70ppm
Calcium Hardness: 325ppm
CYA: 80ppm
Salt: 3,200ppm

View attachment 547676View attachment 547678View attachment 547677View attachment 547679View attachment 547680View attachment 547683
View attachment 547685
I was happy that I caught it quickly, before it spread to the motor shaft seal and/or corroded the motor body. There was just a little bit of surface corrosion that 1000 grit sandpaper took care of (photos are of before).
View attachment 547681View attachment 547682

The seal that is inserted into the sealplate does not appear to be centered in the photo. Also, in the picture of the sealplate without the seal it appears that the metal cup was not completely installed against the bottom of the cup (rust on one side). A crooked seal will fail quickly.
I use a 1" PVC coupler to drive that portion of the seal into the sealplate as it just fits on the metal portion and sets it evenly.

 

[DavidArmenB]

The seal that is inserted into the sealplate does not appear to be centered in the photo. Also, in the picture of the sealplate without the seal it appears that the metal cup was not completely installed against the bottom of the cup (rust on one side). A crooked seal will fail quickly.
I use a 1" PVC coupler to drive that portion of the seal into the sealplate as it just fits on the metal portion and sets it evenly.

It came this way from the factory so I assume quality control is not what it used to be. Though the seal looking off-Center could just be an illusion of the angle of the photo. The 1” PVC coupler is exactly what I used to drive the new seal in. I saw it in a YouTube video haha

 

[DavidArmenB]

So I let the silicone sealant cure for 24 hours and I started up the pump four hours ago. Kept checking every hour and at my last check, I see a leak. Its leaking from the shaft just like before.

What could I have done wrong? Maybe I didn’t clean the rust off the seal plate seat surface enough? Or maybe I didn’t put enough silicone adhesive before pressing the new seal into the seal plate?

 

[DavidArmenB]

Happy New Year Everyone!

So I took it apart again. I don’t see any visible signs why it was leaking from the shaft again.

Although, I’m wondering how easy/hard it should be to remove the seal from the impeller? I had to use a flat head screwdriver to remove the old one but I was able to pop off the new one I installed two days ago using my fingers. Did I mess up the surface when I pried the old seal off? It doesn’t look perfectly round to me. Should I use silicone adhesive on the impeller seal as well? Or should I purchase a new impeller altogether?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I am by far no expert in pump repairs but the shaft seal ceramic half seems to be indicating that the sealing surfaces are out of alignment. Notice the wear pattern on the ceramic -



Most of the ceramic has a little bit of a wear pattern but there is an area that is not showing wear at all. Maybe it's just a shadow in the picture, but it certainly looks odd to me. If the ceramic and metal (nickel, I believe?) halves do not mate evenly, then the seal won't work.

Perhaps something is causing the impeller and motor shaft to not line up properly ...

 

[1poolman1]

Happy New Year Everyone!

So I took it apart again. I don’t see any visible signs why it was leaking from the shaft again.

Although, I’m wondering how easy/hard it should be to remove the seal from the impeller? I had to use a flat head screwdriver to remove the old one but I was able to pop off the new one I installed two days ago using my fingers. Did I mess up the surface when I pried the old seal off? It doesn’t look perfectly round to me. Should I use silicone adhesive on the impeller seal as well? Or should I purchase a new impeller altogether?

View attachment 547982View attachment 547983View attachment 547984View attachment 547985View attachment 547986View attachment 547987View attachment 547988View attachment 547989View attachment 547990View attachment 547991

When you removed the ceramic from the impeller, did the rubber cup feel hard, not pliable? If so, the seal likely overheated and could have damaged the impeller. Yes, it is difficult to remove that part after it has been in use for a while. Prying with a small screwdriver probably wouldn't harm the impeller, but overheating from running dry can. In the picture that is straight at the ceramic/impeller, it does look like the seal cup may be deformed.

 

[DavidArmenB]

I am by far no expert in pump repairs but the shaft seal ceramic half seems to be indicating that the sealing surfaces are out of alignment. Notice the wear pattern on the ceramic -

View attachment 548004

Most of the ceramic has a little bit of a wear pattern but there is an area that is not showing wear at all. Maybe it's just a shadow in the picture, but it certainly looks odd to me. If the ceramic and metal (nickel, I believe?) halves do not mate evenly, then the seal won't work.

Perhaps something is causing the impeller and motor shaft to not line up properly ...

This is an overexposure artifact from the flash of the camera. On the other photo you can see even wear:

 

[DavidArmenB]

When you removed the ceramic from the impeller, did the rubber cup feel hard, not pliable? If so, the seal likely overheated and could have damaged the impeller. Yes, it is difficult to remove that part after it has been in use for a while. Prying with a small screwdriver probably wouldn't harm the impeller, but overheating from running dry can. In the picture that is straight at the ceramic/impeller, it does look like the seal cup may be deformed.

The rubber of old (original) ceramic seal was a bit hard, but still rubber-like, and it the only way to remove it was to use a flat head screwdriver around the perimeter to slowly pry it out. The new seal I put two days ago has an even softer rubber cup (i assume because it’s new) and it is very easy to insert and remove from the impeller seat, by hand. I think I am just going to replace the impeller because the seal seat definitely does not look perfectly round to me. There are a few spots where the lip seems to have bulged outwards.

I am leaning more and more on deformation due to overheating but it’s a mystery because the pump never ran dry, at least as far as I ever saw.

 

[1poolman1]

The rubber of old (original) ceramic seal was a bit hard, but still rubber-like, and it the only way to remove it was to use a flat head screwdriver around the perimeter to slowly pry it out. The new seal I put two days ago has an even softer rubber cup (i assume because it’s new) and it is very easy to insert and remove from the impeller seat, by hand. I think I am just going to replace the impeller because the seal seat definitely does not look perfectly round to me. There are a few spots where the lip seems to have bulged outwards.
View attachment 548018View attachment 548019
I am leaning more and more on deformation due to overheating but it’s a mystery because the pump never ran dry, at least as far as I ever saw.

If the new seal isn't a little hard to install, and if lubed wants to rise out of the cup, the impeller is bad. There should be no deformity of the seal area. Here is a good picture of what it should look like, the image can be enlarged:

Pentair WhisperFlo / Intelliflo Impeller 3HP 073131

Powerful Pentair Impeller, compatible with WFE-12, WhisperFlo, IntelliFlo VS Pump, VF & VS + SVRS 3hp High Performance Pumps.

aquapoolsupply.com

 

[JamesW]

The ceramic should be pure white with no gray at all.

The gray indicates a problem with the seal.

Either it is a very cheap seal or it ran dry.

What seal did you get?

 

[JamesW]

This seal looks super cheap.

Where did you get this seal?

 

[DavidArmenB]

If the new seal isn't a little hard to install, and if lubed wants to rise out of the cup, the impeller is bad. There should be no deformity of the seal area. Here is a good picture of what it should look like, the image can be enlarged:

Pentair WhisperFlo / Intelliflo Impeller 3HP 073131

Powerful Pentair Impeller, compatible with WFE-12, WhisperFlo, IntelliFlo VS Pump, VF & VS + SVRS 3hp High Performance Pumps.

aquapoolsupply.com

Would these bulges qualify as deformities?

 

[DavidArmenB]

The ceramic should be pure white with no gray at all.

The gray indicates a problem with the seal.

Either it is a very cheap seal or it ran dry.

What seal did you get?

I purchased a genuine Pentair Quick Seal Kit (P/N: 356198) which includes the Salt resistant seal “Shaft Seal Assembly (salt/ozone resistant)” P/N 071732S.

 

[DavidArmenB]

This seal looks super cheap.

Where did you get this seal?

View attachment 548067

It was a genuine Pentair Seal kit P/N: 356198 in original packaging, purchased from a local pool supply store.

 

[DavidArmenB]

Some photos of the new seal I just removed from the pump. Ran for only a day. I’m almost certain the new seals weren’t the issue, as when I removed the new seal from the seal plate, I could see the silicone advesive was perfectly sealing the metal portion of the seal to the seal plate. I think the slightly deformed impeller is the issue here, and perhaps water was getting through underneath the ceramic seal in the impeller?