Thinking about going Salt - have a few questions

[mknauss]

If you use trichlor or dichlor, be prepared to use baking soda. They are both very acidic, will reduce your pH, and lower your TA.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

I'm most likely going to just use the stabilizer. My plan is to basically make sure everything else is in line, verify via ocl that there's no algae, then will get cya dialed in if its needed. My assumption is that it will be low (just stands to reason that if I were at 60 when I winterized and maybe 40-50% of the water was replaced with rain water that it probably would be lower) but won't know for sure until I run the tests. That was probably the reason why in the 1 season I ran the pool with the 3" tablets that cya was still ok when I opened the next year. I can definitely see in warmer or year round climates without much rain how cya will jump up with the 3" tabs over the years.

On the stabilizer, the whole idea is we don't want it to collect on the bottom of the pool and go into a confined area which is why the sock idea is used? I bought a bunch of hair nets as a poor mans idea to add an extra filter to the skimmers a while back. Worked like a champ at faster speeds but at the lower 1500ish rpms speed I ran it at basically 24/7 it didn't work out too well. Would end up pushing the skimmer basket up....so I say all that to say I have a ton of extra hair nets. I wonder how well that will work if I put that near a return. I guess worst case if it doesn't work out I just need to stir and monitor it until all the granules are visually gone? I think some cya was in those sam clubs dichlor and I remember what it would look like when I'd sprinkle it on the pool. It dissolved right up in warmer temps but I bet in colder temps it will be harder to dissolve.

 

[Newdude]

On the stabilizer, the whole idea is we don't want it to collect on the bottom of the pool and go into a confined area which is why the sock idea is used?

Exactly that.

Worked like a champ at faster speeds but at the lower 1500ish rpms speed I ran it at basically 24/7 it didn't work out too well. Would end up pushing the skimmer basket up....

You can add a rock or anything heavy that won't rust so long as it's bigger than the skimmer pipe opening. We get one or two threads with stuck items a season.

I guess worst case if it doesn't work out I just need to stir and monitor it until all the granules are visually gone? I think some cya was in those sam clubs dichlor and I remember what it would look like when I'd sprinkle it on the pool. It dissolved right up in warmer temps but I bet in colder temps it will be harder to dissolve.

Yeah. And small clumps will look dissolved until you have a bazillion teeny polka dots.

I wonder how well that will work if I put that near a return

Pretty well so long as the pressure from the return doesn't rip them apart. I'd bag it, then bag that with a 2nd one. Anything works. I have a big pool and need 15+ lbs at opening. I use the sleeves from long sleeve Tshirts and when I filled the new pool last spring with 0 CYA, I used the whole dang Tshirt.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

Opened my pool this weekend. I must say following the advice of users/closing pool article from this website last year worked perfectly. I opened it yesterday, 4/8/23 and water was crystal clear blue. A few runs of the robot and 24 hrs after opening it looks absolutely perfect. A complete 180 of last year and that's with opening it 2 weeks later this year compared to last year! So big kudos to the board. My pool management has been awesome since I discovered this site.

I do have a few questions on my levels and want to lay out what I'm thinking is the best course of action. I'd like someone smarter than me to review this to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong because this will be my first full year with swg. I opened the pool, did the initial tests and obviously salt was low and alkalinity was on the low end. Dumped 4 40 lb bags of salt and appox 4.5 lbs of baking soda + 2 gallons of liquid chlorine. 24 hours later here are my levels:

Pool Temperature 62 F
FC 8
CC 0
CH 100
Cya 40
Salt 2800
Alkalinity 50-60 (color turned light pink at 50 then a noticeably darker solid pink at 60....which do I use?)
Ph 7.5-7.6 (color most closely matches 7.5 but not exactly. Calibrated ph meter I have alternates between 7.5-7.6 so I'm in that ballpark)

In short, I'm really just wanting a second opinion on what chemicals I should add based on the info above and in what order. Here's more specifics.

1. CH, FC, salt seem fine. Hooked up SWG and have it at 10% at the moment because of season. I'll monitor of course. The salt test kit changed color on 14th drop (indicating 2800) and Hayward aquarite also shows 2800 on instant salt. I wanted to make sure I was on the lower end to not overshoot. I have 3-4 more bags on hand and once I give it a few days just to make sure salt is fully dissolved I'll add another bag to get it over 3000. I know as rain happens and I have to empty some I'll continue to monitor salt. That sound reasonable?

2. So alkalinity is still a hair low. Am I right to assume it's 60 based on how I described test above? If we assume it's 60, for my pool size, pool math shows 6 lbs of baking soda will get me to the ideal of 80. My worry is baking soda also can also increase pH a little in circumstances....I definitely don't want to overshooy my pH. I know it shouldn't take it above 7.8 but dont love the idea of hanging on the top edge of that. In short....am I ok to leave alkalinity as it is which is the lowet end of ideal....or should I add some baking soda?

3. CYA is 40. The 4 lb bag of stabilizer I have will do the trick and raise it to 60 but also shows it will drop ph by 0.4. If that holds true that would put my pH to 7.2. Adding the baking soda as well may raise pH some slowing down effect. So what should I do?

4. Aquarite I believe operates at 50 and above but I've also read differing reports of 60. Temp is definitely not going to go below 50 but could touch a little below 60 in certain cold nights. Am I ok to run swg? Will it hurt anything?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

1. Raise your salt to 3000 but NOT higher.

2. TA of 50-60 is ok. Do NOT add baking soda.

3. Add CYA for CYA 60. A pH of 7.2 is fine.

4. Run your SWG and monitor your FC level. If your SWG is not producing enough chlorine due to cold water then supplement with liquid chlorine until the water gets warmer. With a water temperature of 62F I doubt your water will get cold enough to shutdown the SWG.

 

[Saturn94]

4. Aquarite I believe operates at 50 and above but I've also read differing reports of 60. Temp is definitely not going to go below 50 but could touch a little below 60 in certain cold nights. Am I ok to run swg? Will it hurt anything?

If I remember correctly, between 50° and 60° the Aqua Rite will only operate up to 20% regardless if you set it higher. Above 60°, it operates at whatever you set it at (although efficiency seems better at warmer temps).

 

[bbillingsley1985]

Appreciate the info from you both. Ajw22 I'll do exactly what you say. Thanks a lot!

One more thing I noticed. My psi pressure gauge on the Hayward filter is showing zero. Assuming the gauge is probably bad. I baby all my equipment and put the whole filter setup in my insulated garage for the winter. Guess that's what I get for trying to take care of things and not leaving it outside all winter lol. Everything is normal as far as everything else. Vsp Pump is pushing water like normal through various high/low/medium settings. No leaks, no bubbles.

I unscrewed the psi gauge, checked it as best I could. Didn't look clogged. I put it back in, turned pump on and started to purposely unscrew it with pump running. Water started coming out as I loosend it so water is getting to it. Bleeder valve at the top shoots water out. Everything seems normal other than the psi gauge doesn't move from zero no matter what.

Hayward replacement is $30 on Amazon. Non Hayward replacements are $10 with the back screw and all and good reviews. Considering I only got a little over 2 years out of the official Hayward one I'm thinking of just spending $10 and ordering the cheaper option. Am I missing anything or is best guess the gauge is just bad?

 

[Newdude]

Am I missing anything or is best guess the gauge is just bad?

They are cheap and it happens. Some people love the fancy glycerin filled ones and others buy the cheapest one they can find. Everybody probably spends the same in the end. Lol.

 

[ajw22]

Hayward replacement is $30 on Amazon. Non Hayward replacements are $10 with the back screw and all and good reviews. Considering I only got a little over 2 years out of the official Hayward one I'm thinking of just spending $10 and ordering the cheaper option. Am I missing anything or is best guess the gauge is just bad?

TFT has glycerin filled pressure gauges at a price in between...

Pool Accessories

tftestkits.net

In the future you should remove the gauge and bring it inside when you close your pool. Then screw it back in at opening. The gauge will last a lot longer that way.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

Yea on the gauge I did move the whole filter setup including the gauge into the garage for the winter which stays insulated so it never gets that cold. That said I will definitely just remove it and put it indoors in the future. At least it's a cheap replacement (hopefully anyway).

Well about 3 hours ago I rigged a setup and put 4 lbs total of the cya in 2 different double wrapped hairnets. Then I rigged up my leaf skimmer and set it in front of a return. So you can laugh at me I attached some pics. Came back out 2 hrs later and not a thing happened. Started squeezing the cya and a whole bunch of chalky like material was spreading out over the pool. I don't really know what the heck in doing (first time with stabilizer). So then I fired up the pump to full blast and held it over a skimmer jet. Chalk started going everywhere in the pool which seemed good but then I realized throughout the squeezing one of my rubber bands holding the hair net together broke and a little bit of the white more solid pieces hit the bottom of the pool. I panicked and quickly used the pool broom to sweep them. It instantly dissolved and disappeared as I did that. It was kind of a Crud show. Got chalky stuff on me, my clothes, on the concrete as I was unhooking the net from my pole so I could attach the broom to it to sweep the pool bottom. Now it seems anytime I want I can just keep squeezing each hair net and a ton of chalk comes out. Is that basically what I do? Just keep hand squeezing it until it's all gone? It doesn't really do anything unless I squeeze it or turn the pump to full blast (my 1725 rpm normal setting isn't doing much).

Hopefully it doesn't harm my concrete concrete. I quickly rinsed it when I got some of the chalky stuff on it and it seems fine. Definitely interesting messing with the stabilizer. I feel like it's mostly dissolved in the sock but don't know if I should just leave it overnight and squeeze the rest out tomorrow.

 

[Newdude]

Now it seems anytime I want I can just keep squeezing each hair net and a ton of chalk comes out. Is that basically what I do? Just keep hand squeezing it until it's all gone?

Yup. That's it. I let mine soak for a full day, then hold and squeeze close to the return on high. It inflates like a balloon and it easy to squish out.

(Make sure your end is good and secured)

 

[bbillingsley1985]

Waiting a day definitely did the trick. This evening when I got home it squeezed out easily just like you said. Sounds like letting it soak for 24 hours in the water and then squeezing it out will do the trick. Will remember that for next time.

Appreciate the continued help from everyone.

 

[Newdude]

Sounds like letting it soak for 24 hours in the water and then squeezing it out will do the trick. Will remember that for next time.

It takes longer in cool water, but even in the peak season, it's almost never an immediate rush so there's no reason to baby sit it. Maybe it needs 2 hours, or 16. Meh. Come back tomorrow.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

It's been over a week since the stabilizer has been added and everything seems perfect. 10% SWG setting for now is holding chlorine right in that 7-8 range, alk 60, ph 7.4-7.5, cya about 60.

I do have a question about the heater because I have never ran the heater while having the SWG. The heat pump I have is a Hayward HeatPro 31204T capable of heating and cooling. I was planning on turning it on around May 1 and it will generally run until around Memorial Day. I usually set it to about 80 and let it do its thing. My question is this. My SWG is installed after the heater of course (i've reattached an image of the setup). How much hotter will the temperature touching the salt cell be compared to a pool temperature of say 82? Is that any concern at all with amperage or anything of the salt cell? My salt level via test is 3200 (salt cell shows 3100). Without researching, I'm guessing the temp coming from the heater is I dunno 10-15 higher? On the flip side we don't use it often but occasionally if water gets above 90 we may turn the cooling function on to due the opposite and have lower temp coming from the heater in that scenario. In short, is there anything special I need to do? It's all automated so I could set the cell to run 100% at X hours and set the heater to not run for those X hours that the swg is running instead of just a straight 10% 24/7 as an example but would prefer not to have to do that.

Another question while I'm on the top of heating. For the first time last year I bought a bottle of liquid solar cover ( https://www.amazon.com/Cover-Free-L...words=liquid+pool+solar&qid=1682020418&sr=8-3 ). I did notice a difference compared to the previous year of it seemingly holding heat a little better but a side effect is I noticed that maybe as it broke down there was some clear residue that would conglomerate at the top of the water. It was easy to skim out and all but slightly annoying. A real solar cover/blanket isn't an option (too scared the dogs may get on it and end up drowning plus don't want the hassle of removing it). Is it harmful at all to pool chemical makeup or frowned upon in the TFP community to use it? I know there's differing opinions on how well it actually works. I don't think it helped a ton but it did feel like the heater didn't have to work as hard to maintain the few times i put it in last year. I still have a lot left and may just use it up unless there's a good reason not to.

 

[ajw22]

I do have a question about the heater because I have never ran the heater while having the SWG. The heat pump I have is a Hayward HeatPro 31204T capable of heating and cooling. I was planning on turning it on around May 1 and it will generally run until around Memorial Day. I usually set it to about 80 and let it do its thing. My question is this. My SWG is installed after the heater of course (i've reattached an image of the setup). How much hotter will the temperature touching the salt cell be compared to a pool temperature of say 82? Is that any concern at all with amperage or anything of the salt cell? My salt level via test is 3200 (salt cell shows 3100). Without researching, I'm guessing the temp coming from the heater is I dunno 10-15 higher? On the flip side we don't use it often but occasionally if water gets above 90 we may turn the cooling function on to due the opposite and have lower temp coming from the heater in that scenario. In short, is there anything special I need to do? It's all automated so I could set the cell to run 100% at X hours and set the heater to not run for those X hours that the swg is running instead of just a straight 10% 24/7 as an example but would prefer not to have to do that.

I say don't worry about it. The SWG cell should operate fine with warmer water. The heater will cycle on and off and the SWG will cycle on and off so much of the time only one or the other will be running.

 

[sub150]

It's been over a week since the stabilizer has been added and everything seems perfect. 10% SWG setting for now is holding chlorine right in that 7-8 range, alk 60, ph 7.4-7.5, cya about 60.

I do have a question about the heater because I have never ran the heater while having the SWG. The heat pump I have is a Hayward HeatPro 31204T capable of heating and cooling. I was planning on turning it on around May 1 and it will generally run until around Memorial Day. I usually set it to about 80 and let it do its thing. My question is this. My SWG is installed after the heater of course (i've reattached an image of the setup). How much hotter will the temperature touching the salt cell be compared to a pool temperature of say 82? Is that any concern at all with amperage or anything of the salt cell? My salt level via test is 3200 (salt cell shows 3100). Without researching, I'm guessing the temp coming from the heater is I dunno 10-15 higher? On the flip side we don't use it often but occasionally if water gets above 90 we may turn the cooling function on to due the opposite and have lower temp coming from the heater in that scenario. In short, is there anything special I need to do? It's all automated so I could set the cell to run 100% at X hours and set the heater to not run for those X hours that the swg is running instead of just a straight 10% 24/7 as an example but would prefer not to have to do that.

Another question while I'm on the top of heating. For the first time last year I bought a bottle of liquid solar cover ( https://www.amazon.com/Cover-Free-L...words=liquid+pool+solar&qid=1682020418&sr=8-3 ). I did notice a difference compared to the previous year of it seemingly holding heat a little better but a side effect is I noticed that maybe as it broke down there was some clear residue that would conglomerate at the top of the water. It was easy to skim out and all but slightly annoying. A real solar cover/blanket isn't an option (too scared the dogs may get on it and end up drowning plus don't want the hassle of removing it). Is it harmful at all to pool chemical makeup or frowned upon in the TFP community to use it? I know there's differing opinions on how well it actually works. I don't think it helped a ton but it did feel like the heater didn't have to work as hard to maintain the few times i put it in last year. I still have a lot left and may just use it up unless there's a good reason not to.

There are solar "rings" out there where essentially a bunch of circular rings are held together by weak magnets. Not full coverage like a cover/blanket but safer if someone falls in and more convenient than a blanket. I haven't tested them. I would use them for blocking evaporation in the summer and thought it was a good idea. Can probably DIY it as well. Not exactly rocket science here.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

I did have a pump issue come up. This isn't related to SWG but not sure if it was better to stick to this master thread that I've been chronicling stuff or start a new post? Let me know if it would be better to start a new post in a different forum.

First off, SWG wise....man everything has been perfect. I have not had to add a single thing all summer. PH stays between 7.6-7.8, running my SWG at 25% or so maintains FC around 7ish. Just has been wonderful and no maintenance at all.

So here's my new issue. 2 days ago, I decided I would do my 2-3 times a season cleaning of the filter. PSI had only rose about 5 psi from when cleaned at the start of the season but I still just like to be extra cautious and keep it cleaned. It's a cartridge filter so I did the usual of shutting off pump, cleaning the 4 cartridges, etc. That all worked fine. I did notice however that on my pump, which shoots upward, after shutting it off and opening the lid, the backwash of the water had A LOT of dead grassy like debris that backflowed down inside to where the pump basket would be. I got it all out, cleaned it up well and with my finger reached in to the impeller and twisted to make sure I had gotten everything. It seemed to turn. It wasn't super easy to turn it but also wasn't hard, felt like medium pushing....no idea if thats normal or not. Well fast forward to where I got everything rolling and all was well, no leaks, no issues except I did notice that the pump seemed just a little bit louder than what it was before. This is a tristar 900 vsp and I basically run it at 1750 rpm's 24/7. You can hardly hear it at all. I didn't worry too much about it until this morning when I walked out there. It is LOUD. I've attached a video (VID_55900505_020519_593.mp4 ) so you can listen and kind of hear what it sounds like.

My guess is that maybe I still have stuff stuck in the impeller. I have never taken the pump apart but I did find a video from hayward (

). The first 1-2 minutes of that video details how to get to the impeller....seems very easy. Just remove a few screws. Do you think that is the correct course of action. Does that sound in the video sound like it could be something else?

One other question while we are on that topic. Do you see the air gap between the water and the top of the lid (note that the aluminum like tape on the pipe is only to hide the temperature gauge they put on the pvc pipe...the sun beats on it all day which makes it show that the pool temp is 2ish degrees higher than it actually is....the tape solves that by reflecting sun from it...wish they'd of drilled the hole in the pvc pipe somewhere else where the sun wasn't hitting all day but i digress....). From Day 1 the pump has always done that when I leave it on that lower speed 24/7. When I asked pool company to check on it a few weeks after install, they came out and said that is completely normal for a vsp. The only thing is from reading online I was lead to believe that if you did turn it up to full blast that it should 100% fill up. I ran mine a few weeks back at 100% high speed for about an hour and no matter what the basket does not fill up to 100%....It gets close but the only time I ever notice it getting to 100% full is right after I clean the filters and hook it back up. First time then it will go to 100% full but never again once i start changing speeds. Is that normal to have that much of a gap? I tried all I could in the past to make sure I didn't have any air gaps and all I've never found anything. Does the pre filter above the pump (which I probably wouldn't of put on but pool guys highly recommended it at install) have any kind of negative effect on pump basket filling?

So in a nutshell my priority question is what should I do to fix the loud noise. Secondary question is, is that gap from air to water for a hayward vsp normal? The pool was installed right at the beginning of 2021 so I'm closing in on 3 years now that I've had the pool. Never given me any issues with pump but just wanted to make sure that was normal. That gap has been there from Day 1 on medium speeds.

I do believe I have a 3 year warranty on the pump so its under warranty still if its anything more than a clogged impeller but the fact that it was fine before I cleaned the filter, and now loud, makes me think something got clogged in that process. I'd definitely prefer to not have to get pool company out if I don't have to. I really don't trust anyone messing with my pool now but me.

Thanks for any help. Here's the video link again: VID_55900505_020519_593.mp4

 

[ajw22]

@1poolman1 assures us that all Hayward Ecostar and TriStar pumps have that air bubble in the pump basket. It comes from the way the pump is designed and nothing to worry about.

I have not heard enough Hayward pumps to comment on the noise you hear.

 

[1poolman1]

I did have a pump issue come up. This isn't related to SWG but not sure if it was better to stick to this master thread that I've been chronicling stuff or start a new post? Let me know if it would be better to start a new post in a different forum.

First off, SWG wise....man everything has been perfect. I have not had to add a single thing all summer. PH stays between 7.6-7.8, running my SWG at 25% or so maintains FC around 7ish. Just has been wonderful and no maintenance at all.

So here's my new issue. 2 days ago, I decided I would do my 2-3 times a season cleaning of the filter. PSI had only rose about 5 psi from when cleaned at the start of the season but I still just like to be extra cautious and keep it cleaned. It's a cartridge filter so I did the usual of shutting off pump, cleaning the 4 cartridges, etc. That all worked fine. I did notice however that on my pump, which shoots upward, after shutting it off and opening the lid, the backwash of the water had A LOT of dead grassy like debris that backflowed down inside to where the pump basket would be. I got it all out, cleaned it up well and with my finger reached in to the impeller and twisted to make sure I had gotten everything. It seemed to turn. It wasn't super easy to turn it but also wasn't hard, felt like medium pushing....no idea if thats normal or not. Well fast forward to where I got everything rolling and all was well, no leaks, no issues except I did notice that the pump seemed just a little bit louder than what it was before. This is a tristar 900 vsp and I basically run it at 1750 rpm's 24/7. You can hardly hear it at all. I didn't worry too much about it until this morning when I walked out there. It is LOUD. I've attached a video ( VID_55900505_020519_593 ) so you can listen and kind of hear what it sounds like.

My guess is that maybe I still have stuff stuck in the impeller. I have never taken the pump apart but I did find a video from hayward (

). The first 1-2 minutes of that video details how to get to the impeller....seems very easy. Just remove a few screws. Do you think that is the correct course of action. Does that sound in the video sound like it could be something else?

One other question while we are on that topic. Do you see the air gap between the water and the top of the lid (note that the aluminum like tape on the pipe is only to hide the temperature gauge they put on the pvc pipe...the sun beats on it all day which makes it show that the pool temp is 2ish degrees higher than it actually is....the tape solves that by reflecting sun from it...wish they'd of drilled the hole in the pvc pipe somewhere else where the sun wasn't hitting all day but i digress....). From Day 1 the pump has always done that when I leave it on that lower speed 24/7. When I asked pool company to check on it a few weeks after install, they came out and said that is completely normal for a vsp. The only thing is from reading online I was lead to believe that if you did turn it up to full blast that it should 100% fill up. I ran mine a few weeks back at 100% high speed for about an hour and no matter what the basket does not fill up to 100%....It gets close but the only time I ever notice it getting to 100% full is right after I clean the filters and hook it back up. First time then it will go to 100% full but never again once i start changing speeds. Is that normal to have that much of a gap? I tried all I could in the past to make sure I didn't have any air gaps and all I've never found anything. Does the pre filter above the pump (which I probably wouldn't of put on but pool guys highly recommended it at install) have any kind of negative effect on pump basket filling?

So in a nutshell my priority question is what should I do to fix the loud noise. Secondary question is, is that gap from air to water for a hayward vsp normal? The pool was installed right at the beginning of 2021 so I'm closing in on 3 years now that I've had the pool. Never given me any issues with pump but just wanted to make sure that was normal. That gap has been there from Day 1 on medium speeds.

I do believe I have a 3 year warranty on the pump so its under warranty still if its anything more than a clogged impeller but the fact that it was fine before I cleaned the filter, and now loud, makes me think something got clogged in that process. I'd definitely prefer to not have to get pool company out if I don't have to. I really don't trust anyone messing with my pool now but me.

Thanks for any help. Here's the video link again: VID_55900505_020519_593

Unfortunately, that sounds like the bearings. But, if debris settled back from that Waterco filter it may be debris in the impeller. If you open the pump, be sure to put some pool lube on the O ring that seals the body.

Water level in that pump at low speeds is completely normal. Was looking at mine yesterday at it was probably only 50% full at 1500 RPM. Opened the air relief on the filter and only got water, no air. You learn to live with that. Hayward TriStar/EcoStar pumps just seem to do that.

 

[bbillingsley1985]

If it is the bearings, what does that mean and what would be my next step? Is that a warranty issue or something I could fix myself?