If the pump is still under warranty, I would allow them to take care of it if it is covered. The usual cause of bearing issues in any pump is a leaking shaft seal, which is usually not covered under warranty. For a VSP, it can also be a electrical grounding issue, they must be grounded properly. Improper install is also not covered. Bearings are not usually a DIY project unless you have the proper tools and experience.
Thinking about going Salt - have a few questions
- Thread starter bbillingsley1985
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,854
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
If the pump is under warranty you should make a warranty claim and see how they handle it before you try and fix it.
As poolman expected, I do think its unfortunately the bearings. I took the pump apart, removed the impeller and it was clean as a whistle. I didn't do anything further than that....just put it back together, fired it back up and it is still making the noise. It's working fine otherwise and moving water and all like its supposed to, just a lot louder noise than I'm used to.
I took ajw22's advice and called the pool company. They unfortunately cannot be out there until next week. When I told him what was happening, he agreed that it was probably the bearings and basically I know what will happen is they will show up next week, figure out it is indeed the bearings, then they will contact hayward and order the part which I assume will take several days, so I'm probably realistically looking at 2 weeks before its fixed. They did at least seem to feel like it will be covered under warranty but of course that's nowhere near official. If warranty doesn't cover it, any ballpark ideas on what I'm looking at cost wise?
One other question. The pool company told me it would be perfectly fine to just keep running it as is as its not terrible loud yet. He said the noise will probably get worse over time but should still function fine in the time it takes to get the part. Am I ok to follow that advice and keep it running as normal until we can get it fixed (assuming 2ish weeks)? Could there be anything other than bearings based on the video above?
I took ajw22's advice and called the pool company. They unfortunately cannot be out there until next week. When I told him what was happening, he agreed that it was probably the bearings and basically I know what will happen is they will show up next week, figure out it is indeed the bearings, then they will contact hayward and order the part which I assume will take several days, so I'm probably realistically looking at 2 weeks before its fixed. They did at least seem to feel like it will be covered under warranty but of course that's nowhere near official. If warranty doesn't cover it, any ballpark ideas on what I'm looking at cost wise?
One other question. The pool company told me it would be perfectly fine to just keep running it as is as its not terrible loud yet. He said the noise will probably get worse over time but should still function fine in the time it takes to get the part. Am I ok to follow that advice and keep it running as normal until we can get it fixed (assuming 2ish weeks)? Could there be anything other than bearings based on the video above?
If there is nothing in the impeller and nothing in the fan, the only other moving parts that might make noise are the bearings as the shaft rotates. If covered under warranty they will either replace the motor or the entire pump. If not covered, you might find a motor shop that would replace the bearings.
Do you have automation? If not there are options for replacing just the motor and drive.
Yes, all Hayward using Hayward Omni Hub. Pump is hooked directly to the omnihub to where the panel on the pump itself doesnt even turn on. All is done on the omnihub.
Pool company sort of indicated it'd all be under warranty but no idea if I have to pay labor regardless and if not I sure hope I'm not out a ton. If it weren't under warranty I do know a shop that rebuilds pump motors but figured since it's warrantied I might as well let them handle it and hope it works out.
Pool company sort of indicated it'd all be under warranty but no idea if I have to pay labor regardless and if not I sure hope I'm not out a ton. If it weren't under warranty I do know a shop that rebuilds pump motors but figured since it's warrantied I might as well let them handle it and hope it works out.
BMerrill
Gold Supporter
- Mar 8, 2021
- 360
- Pool Size
- 17860
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
That's encouraging to see. Yea on the phone they indicated to me that it shouldn't be any issue with warranty covering, but maybe an issue on time frame both for them to get out there (next week) and maybe for parts. They said they do have replacement Tristar 950 VSP stuff in stock but would have to order Tristar 900. He also mentioned a past situation where they replaced the whole pump with an instock Tristar 950 for free under warranty. Would that be normal and if they want to swap it for a 950 (which is I guess a better model) should I let them?
Regardless I expect mid next week they finally make it out, confirm what we all pretty much know at this point that its bearings, then call hayward, wait probably a week to get that part in, and probably best case 2 weeks they get it fixed.
I am just leaving it on my standard 1700 rpm speed. It's working great but working loud. I don't know what else to do than that because obviously SWG won't run and filtering won't happen without running it.
If it completely stops or the noise becomes unbearable, then purchase at sump pump at HD, Lowe’s, or online. Put it in 1 end of pool and connect a hose to the outlet port and put in the opposite end of the pool. This would circulate water. You will need to add liquid chlorine.
You will also need to skim with a net.
Look for a sump pump with a long cord. Some only come with a 10ft and barely can put in the shallow end.
BMerrill
Gold Supporter
- Mar 8, 2021
- 360
- Pool Size
- 17860
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
If they will, have them swap out to the 950 to keep you ups and running.
I run my 950 with 2" piping at 1550 rpm, flows 55 gallons a minute and uses 250 watts
I run my 950 with 2" piping at 1550 rpm, flows 55 gallons a minute and uses 250 watts
Great advice. I actually have one anyway that I use to drain the pool in the offseason as rain fills it. Only issue is I won't be there all of next week. Of course I am going to be out on vacation for 6 total days (literally could not have picked a more worse time for this to go out) so thats where things get murky. I do have a few jugs of liquid chlorine on hand and I've turned the swg generation up to get FC to about 10. Just hate not being home with the pump like it is. I do have someone checking on the house daily so I've instructed them to check out the pump and if it sounds like a freight train/any other issue, kill power. Depending on when/if that happens I'll have them dump a little chlorine in daily and all they can really do is use the skimmer pole to stir pool up as best they can..... but I'll have enough chlorine built in to hold 2-3 days regardless. Hoping if it does go out, its closer to the end of my vacation. I'll be out of the country with no cell service so of course its a Crud show. Told pool company this and to let themselves in whenever they can show up and if its warrantied do whatever they need to to order part, etc. Gave them a family members phone number who I've filled in on the situation.
So should be an eventful few weeks lol. I'm someone who stresses easy so it'll be a bummer to be a little stressed about the pool while trying to enjoy vacation.
Rest assured you KNOW we can help you fix it if things go south. Imagine being where you're at with no TFP in your back pocket.
We got you.
Yea 1700ish rpm's on my 900 runs right at 200 watts and does a great job of keeping pool filtered and clean. 950 looks like its more HP and more expensive....wonder if money were no object, is it better to have an oversized pump or not. I figure whatever they want to do I'll be good with to get me a good problem free pump....900 or 950.
I'm guessing they end up just ordering the whole motor assembly for the 900, that's what would make sense to me and be easiest to replace but if they have the entire 950 setup and want to replace all I'd be good with that too. Just don't want them to mix and match parts and do a mickey mouse setup which I don't think they'll do.
Update on my situation. They actually made it out last week while I was on vacation and replaced the motor under warranty no questions asked and didn't cost me anything. I was definitely happy about that but the negative was they wiped all my settings within my Omni hub upon replacing it. Why is that a problem? I'm in another country on vacation and the SWG was now not showing up in my app. Just the pump. So I had a pump that was working but since the Aquarite SWG was set up to be 100% controlled by app/omni it won't run on its own. I still had about 5 days until I was going to be back to configure it so I ended up having to talk my dad through adding it back in. What would take me 5 minutes took an hour phone conversation with him lol. Basically you go to config, edit configuration, add chlorinator, choose the T15 cell, etc. He's not technologically inclined at all so it took some time to walk him through all of that but we got it added. So there I was in another country dialing in the SWG from my app lol. It was on around 25% but since it hadn't ran for about 12 hours I went ahead and bumped it to 40% to be safe and left it.
When I got back home, all was well. FC was 10 which I'd expect it to be since I raised the percentage. So all is great and the pump is running perfectly. A couple of things I noticed:
1. They did appear to install the vs 950 motor with my vs 900 setup. The only thing that is original is basically the basket assembly and impeller setup....motor and everything else is the 950 and it does appear brand new. Reason why I think its the 950 is on the motor sticker, it reads as a 2.70 HP. My old motor from the pic I took before was 1.85 HP. I'm not going to do anything now, but is the fact that I got a better HP pump and on paper more expensive pump a positive, negative or negligible with my setup?
2. Some interesting observations with the newer pump. The 1725 I used to run it on 24/7 was now running at about 280 watts compared to the 200 watts the lower HP motor produced. Also the water was definitely coming out faster out of the return jets running 1725 on 2.7 HP pump compared to 1725 on the 1.85 HP pump. So what I did is I figured out what I needed to set it to rpm's wise to achieve 200 watts. About 1450 rpm's achieved 200 watts.....as I felt the jets it was now feeling at right about the same speed 1725 used to produce. So ok, set it to run 24/7 at 1450 rpms.
3. Also figured out that my SWG will now run at around 900-1000 rpm's before tripping the flow sensor. With my old 1.85 pump, I needed 1300-1400 or so to feel good about the flow sensor not tripping. Same deal for heater. I needed about 2300-2400rpm's to allow enough flow for heater to kick on....about 1800-1900 now allows it to kick on. I wonder if the pump will last longer as a whole by running it at lesser rpm's or if it doesn't make that much diference.
4. Last question I'm asking myself is why did the pump fail so early? I'm happy it was under warranty and fixed but a little concerned and making sure I'm not doing anything wrong. Will accidentally dumping muriatic acid basically straight to the pump potentially cause problems? Right after the pool was built, within the first month they did a complimentary maintaining of chemicals for the first 3-4 months and came out every week to clean, add chemicals, etc. I noticed right by a skimmer basket there was a few drops of staining on the concrete. It wouldn't come off, discolored. I thought huh thats really weird. Pulled up my camera from earlier in the day and noticed the pool guy poured something directly into the input line where that skimmer basket was, in the process spilling some on the concrete and not wiping it up. That caused the stain. I knew nothing about chemicals at the time or anything. I found out from them that it was muriatic acid. I now know that its not good at all for your pool equipment to pour acid straight into it like that. Now granted this was 2.5ish years ago, but could that have caused the beginning of some kind of a problem with the pump? Only happened that one time. The only other thing was that same year we had that historic -30 degree temps. They finished installation of pool in January and "recommended" that rather than close it I just keep it open for that year because its just a few more months and because the winters typically aren't that bad it should be fine. Sure enough we have the ice age for a week or two stretch while my pool is trying to run. I was lucky that power never went out at my house or I'd of been in big trouble.....pool newibe, knowing nothing about my equipment, and have power out with -30 temps lol. Luckily the pump did stay on the entire time and I was able to move water constantly through that and avoid problems but wonder if that stressed out the motor some. That's all I really can think of.
Hopefully equipment wise I'll be ok going forward and happy that all is working.
When I got back home, all was well. FC was 10 which I'd expect it to be since I raised the percentage. So all is great and the pump is running perfectly. A couple of things I noticed:
1. They did appear to install the vs 950 motor with my vs 900 setup. The only thing that is original is basically the basket assembly and impeller setup....motor and everything else is the 950 and it does appear brand new. Reason why I think its the 950 is on the motor sticker, it reads as a 2.70 HP. My old motor from the pic I took before was 1.85 HP. I'm not going to do anything now, but is the fact that I got a better HP pump and on paper more expensive pump a positive, negative or negligible with my setup?
2. Some interesting observations with the newer pump. The 1725 I used to run it on 24/7 was now running at about 280 watts compared to the 200 watts the lower HP motor produced. Also the water was definitely coming out faster out of the return jets running 1725 on 2.7 HP pump compared to 1725 on the 1.85 HP pump. So what I did is I figured out what I needed to set it to rpm's wise to achieve 200 watts. About 1450 rpm's achieved 200 watts.....as I felt the jets it was now feeling at right about the same speed 1725 used to produce. So ok, set it to run 24/7 at 1450 rpms.
3. Also figured out that my SWG will now run at around 900-1000 rpm's before tripping the flow sensor. With my old 1.85 pump, I needed 1300-1400 or so to feel good about the flow sensor not tripping. Same deal for heater. I needed about 2300-2400rpm's to allow enough flow for heater to kick on....about 1800-1900 now allows it to kick on. I wonder if the pump will last longer as a whole by running it at lesser rpm's or if it doesn't make that much diference.
4. Last question I'm asking myself is why did the pump fail so early? I'm happy it was under warranty and fixed but a little concerned and making sure I'm not doing anything wrong. Will accidentally dumping muriatic acid basically straight to the pump potentially cause problems? Right after the pool was built, within the first month they did a complimentary maintaining of chemicals for the first 3-4 months and came out every week to clean, add chemicals, etc. I noticed right by a skimmer basket there was a few drops of staining on the concrete. It wouldn't come off, discolored. I thought huh thats really weird. Pulled up my camera from earlier in the day and noticed the pool guy poured something directly into the input line where that skimmer basket was, in the process spilling some on the concrete and not wiping it up. That caused the stain. I knew nothing about chemicals at the time or anything. I found out from them that it was muriatic acid. I now know that its not good at all for your pool equipment to pour acid straight into it like that. Now granted this was 2.5ish years ago, but could that have caused the beginning of some kind of a problem with the pump? Only happened that one time. The only other thing was that same year we had that historic -30 degree temps. They finished installation of pool in January and "recommended" that rather than close it I just keep it open for that year because its just a few more months and because the winters typically aren't that bad it should be fine. Sure enough we have the ice age for a week or two stretch while my pool is trying to run. I was lucky that power never went out at my house or I'd of been in big trouble.....pool newibe, knowing nothing about my equipment, and have power out with -30 temps lol. Luckily the pump did stay on the entire time and I was able to move water constantly through that and avoid problems but wonder if that stressed out the motor some. That's all I really can think of.
Hopefully equipment wise I'll be ok going forward and happy that all is working.
1. They probably didn't just replace the motor, but installed a new "power end." Basically pulled the bolts holding the pump together and installed a new assembly including new sealplate, impeller (2.7hp), motor and drive. This is a good thing as it addresses;
2. At the same RPM you are now moving more water so the pump is working a little harder and it shows in watts used which explains;
3. Larger pump can run at a lower speed and give the same results saving money in the process and no, it won't really make any difference to the longevity of the pump, but;
4. Acid poured into the skimmer can damage the shaft seal spring by weakening it allowing it to leak water right into the motor front bearing. That could account for the problem but there is no practical way to know for sure and a one-time event is likely not the cause. Seals fail, even new ones at times. Running in freeze-protection mode will not stress the motor, but -30?
2. At the same RPM you are now moving more water so the pump is working a little harder and it shows in watts used which explains;
3. Larger pump can run at a lower speed and give the same results saving money in the process and no, it won't really make any difference to the longevity of the pump, but;
4. Acid poured into the skimmer can damage the shaft seal spring by weakening it allowing it to leak water right into the motor front bearing. That could account for the problem but there is no practical way to know for sure and a one-time event is likely not the cause. Seals fail, even new ones at times. Running in freeze-protection mode will not stress the motor, but -30?
Appreciate the reply. Yes I do believe you are correct that they also installed a new power end. Think it also explains why all of my settings were reset. On the camera it didn't take them long to replace it all and looks like they took out everything past the 6 bolts and replaced it with a whole new setup, bolted it back in, etc.
Though a little annoyed that they didn't set up everything within omni correctly (left my light as a basic light, had my heater set to the wrong smart relay....I basically wiped all preset settings they put in and redid heater, lights, SWG etc.), I'm still overall very happy that they fixed it in a timely manner (2-3 business days after I called them) and it seems to be working well. Very happy I didn't have to pay anything.... I was definitely worried about that part. Very quiet like it's supposed to be. I should probably do a backup of my omni settings for the future but hopefully I won't have very much issues in the future.
Well, the hits just keep on coming lol.
As usual let me know if I should start a new thread somewhere else but figured I'd stick with my master thread.
My pool light won't turn on. I have what I believe is a Universal Colorlogic light from Hayward. This is a stock Hayward brand light that best I can tell hooks from the pool to a transformer, and then from the transformer to my smart relay, which talks to my Omni Hub, allowing me to turn the lights on, control them, do light shows, change brightness etc. all straight from the app. Here's what happened:
A few days ago we had some thunderstorms come through. That I'm aware of nothing hit the house/electrical, but what did happen is on 2 separate occasions within a few seconds of eachother, I saw a flash of lightning out in the distance outside, and the power flickered off, then clicked back on within a second. A few seconds later (maybe 10-20 seconds), another flash, and exactly the same thing happend. So it was basically the same thing as me standing at the breaker, flipping power to the entire house off, waiting half a second, flipping it back on, and then 10-20 seconds later doing the exact same thing. So when flicker #1 happened, what that did is triggered a restart of my whole pool setup (pump and all). When I turn my pool equipment on for the first time, the smart relay activates and the pool lights turn on for like 15 seconds as sort of a warmup, then shuts down and the rest of the booting up goes on. When flicker #2 happened, I'm betting the pool lights were still on doing its bootup process which may have triggered an issue when it was abruptly stopped.
Now admittedly, a few days passed before I knew anything was wrong with the lights so its possible this didn't happen then, but I still think its most likely. I immediately checked my pump, chlorinator, heater etc. after the storm and they were all working fine. But I did not think to test the light out. Flash forward to last night, about 2-3 days later, and thats when I noticed that the lights were not turning on.
So solutions. My best guess is that there is something wrong with the Transformer? When I go to my panel to turn the lights on, my smart relay activates (the relay itself lights up and you hear the normal clicking on that it has always done) so I feel confident that the relay is ok. My entire system thinks its on. It will show that the light is on, and let me change brightness, light shows, all the settings. But at the pool itself its dead, no light at all. Would that make you guys point to transformer as well? If it is the transformer, Amazon has the exact same one (an Intermatic Model PX300) for ~$100. A solution in my mind is buy the exact same one, and take tone of pics of how this current one is wired, and wire it exactly the same way.
Now if you scroll up a few posts, you'll see that I did have the pump replaced last month and it was covered under warranty. Would the light/transformer be a possible warranty claim or likely not? I guess I could call the pool company to find out but as I said before I really hate having 3rd people mess around with my stuff. If I'm certain its transformer, I'd probably be fine dumping $100 to fix it myself slowly, calmly, and properly if I'm sure that's what it is. Pool was installed January of 2021 so ~2 years 7 months old.
If it isn't the transformer, and smart relay is ok, could it be the LED light itself? That would be disastrous because the lights look like they're in the neighborhood of $1000-1500 online so I really hope that isn't the deal. Any checks I can do or any resets/fuses to check or anything on the transformer. I'm definitely a novice on electrical, but I did wire up the SWG, wired up ceiling fans, fixed basically all appliances, etc. so I do have some knowledge. I'll attach some pics of the exact transformer I have.
As usual let me know if I should start a new thread somewhere else but figured I'd stick with my master thread.
My pool light won't turn on. I have what I believe is a Universal Colorlogic light from Hayward. This is a stock Hayward brand light that best I can tell hooks from the pool to a transformer, and then from the transformer to my smart relay, which talks to my Omni Hub, allowing me to turn the lights on, control them, do light shows, change brightness etc. all straight from the app. Here's what happened:
A few days ago we had some thunderstorms come through. That I'm aware of nothing hit the house/electrical, but what did happen is on 2 separate occasions within a few seconds of eachother, I saw a flash of lightning out in the distance outside, and the power flickered off, then clicked back on within a second. A few seconds later (maybe 10-20 seconds), another flash, and exactly the same thing happend. So it was basically the same thing as me standing at the breaker, flipping power to the entire house off, waiting half a second, flipping it back on, and then 10-20 seconds later doing the exact same thing. So when flicker #1 happened, what that did is triggered a restart of my whole pool setup (pump and all). When I turn my pool equipment on for the first time, the smart relay activates and the pool lights turn on for like 15 seconds as sort of a warmup, then shuts down and the rest of the booting up goes on. When flicker #2 happened, I'm betting the pool lights were still on doing its bootup process which may have triggered an issue when it was abruptly stopped.
Now admittedly, a few days passed before I knew anything was wrong with the lights so its possible this didn't happen then, but I still think its most likely. I immediately checked my pump, chlorinator, heater etc. after the storm and they were all working fine. But I did not think to test the light out. Flash forward to last night, about 2-3 days later, and thats when I noticed that the lights were not turning on.
So solutions. My best guess is that there is something wrong with the Transformer? When I go to my panel to turn the lights on, my smart relay activates (the relay itself lights up and you hear the normal clicking on that it has always done) so I feel confident that the relay is ok. My entire system thinks its on. It will show that the light is on, and let me change brightness, light shows, all the settings. But at the pool itself its dead, no light at all. Would that make you guys point to transformer as well? If it is the transformer, Amazon has the exact same one (an Intermatic Model PX300) for ~$100. A solution in my mind is buy the exact same one, and take tone of pics of how this current one is wired, and wire it exactly the same way.
Now if you scroll up a few posts, you'll see that I did have the pump replaced last month and it was covered under warranty. Would the light/transformer be a possible warranty claim or likely not? I guess I could call the pool company to find out but as I said before I really hate having 3rd people mess around with my stuff. If I'm certain its transformer, I'd probably be fine dumping $100 to fix it myself slowly, calmly, and properly if I'm sure that's what it is. Pool was installed January of 2021 so ~2 years 7 months old.
If it isn't the transformer, and smart relay is ok, could it be the LED light itself? That would be disastrous because the lights look like they're in the neighborhood of $1000-1500 online so I really hope that isn't the deal. Any checks I can do or any resets/fuses to check or anything on the transformer. I'm definitely a novice on electrical, but I did wire up the SWG, wired up ceiling fans, fixed basically all appliances, etc. so I do have some knowledge. I'll attach some pics of the exact transformer I have.
Attachments
- Jul 21, 2013
- 52,854
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Do you have a multimeter?
Using a multimeter to do voltage checks and continuity checks should let you diagnose where along the electrical circuit it has failed.
Do you have snubbers installed with your lights if you are not using a Hayward transformer? See the attached Hayward bulletin.
Using a multimeter to do voltage checks and continuity checks should let you diagnose where along the electrical circuit it has failed.
Do you have snubbers installed with your lights if you are not using a Hayward transformer? See the attached Hayward bulletin.
Good question. I really don't know for sure but as I look at the picture I took of the inside of it, it doesn't look like it does, though I can't see fully inside. From the attachment you linked, it looks like it would be attached on my left side of wires (the ones running to the 120v). So that means they would of installed it that way without it. I do only have 1 light so no real syncing issues with other lights to worry about but the hiccups about smart relaying could be an issue. All that said, I didn't notice a single issue at all with it until last night when the lights simply didn't turn on.
Is there any good write up to find the easiest way to check what proper voltages/continuity should be? I do have a cheap multimeter. I order everything on Amazon so they will take it back free and clear if it doesn't work but if its easy I'd like to check to figure out if that's actually the problem.
My original thought was buy the exact same transformer, then hook it up exactly the same way and see if that fixes it. I guess if they have a snubber in it, I would rehook the existing snubber to it (provided it isn't bad).