Replacing my Hayward Northstar pump, filter, and re-plumbing

[BenTX]

Hey TFP, glad to find such a knowledgeable community.

Been researching for the past week and had a few quotes built to replace my filter, plumbing and pump. Not to keen on the prices I am a big diyer so planning on doing this myself.

You can see what equipment I have in my signature and a picture of my setup is attached.

At first I was going to get a 3hp black and decker pump, then I went to a Hayward 3hp TriStar, but I'm now landing on the new intelliflo3.

Main reason I want to go with the intelliflo3 is the already built in automation with the io board and ease of access with the app.

I have 3 suction lines, 2 for the pool and 1 for the spa. I was thinking of building a 2.5 inch manifold for just the suction side while leaving the return side 2 inch. This was just to help with flow more evenly across all suction lines and initial start up after the pump has been off.

With everything on one pump right now minus the sweeper, does it make sense to go with the intelliflo3? It would be powering the spa fountain and the spa jets when on. Or is it overkill for my setup?

In the first picture attached there in the top left hand and right hand corners, there are what look like to be 2 check valves. Top left is for the fountain supply and top right is spring loaded for the jets for the spa. Are those check valves?

When I do this I'm redoing all the plumbing, given that it is 20 yrs old. Those are the only 2 pieces of the existing plumbing that I think I know but not sure what they are.

Lastly, I was planning on getting a 60sqft de filter from either pentair or Hayward. Leaning Hayward because they are a tad cheaper.
Any reason I need to go with the pent air?

Any help on this is greatly appreciated, thanks is an advance!

 

[ajw22]

There is no such thing as overkill with a VS pump. You run the pump at the speed and HP you need.

Price the DE filter + the necessary MPV. Also look at the relative parts costs between Hayward and Pentair and parts availability to a DIY.

 

[BenTX]

Thanks Ajw22. I can pretty much get either de for but the Hayward is just a few hundred cheaper.

All the professionals have pretty much put a fear in me when talking about Hayward pumps. Has their reliability really gone down that much so that no one wants to install them?

 

[ajw22]

All the professionals have pretty much put a fear in me when talking about Hayward pumps. Has their reliability really gone down that much so that no one wants to install them?

What do they want to install?

Hayward had some lemon pumps like the EcoStar. They fixed those problems. The TriStar VS is a good workhorse pump.

 

[BenTX]

All are either Jandy or pentair and im ok with that, just have had a alot of negativity around hayward from who have come out and quoted me the work.

Some came back with the 2.7 epump, whisperflo and then the intelliflo or the intelliflo3.

 

[BenTX]

Are the 2 pvc parts circled in the picture attached, are they just check valves?

The one on the right is spring loaded and is for the spa jets.
The one on the left is for the fountain that is in my spa.

 

[aerospa]

Are the 2 pvc parts circled in the picture attached, are they just check valves?

The one on the right is spring loaded and is for the spa jets.
The one on the left is for the fountain that is in my spa.

Yes.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks Ajw22. I can pretty much get either de for but the Hayward is just a few hundred cheaper.

All the professionals have pretty much put a fear in me when talking about Hayward pumps. Has their reliability really gone down that much so that no one wants to install them?

As ajw22 said, Hayward had some problems with the EcoStar. They changed the drive and re-named it the TriStar VSP. No more issues than any other brand now. That being said, my EcoStar is over 12 years old with never an issue. I wouldn't hesitate to get a new one if needed, and I still sell them occasionally when I can get them. I have found their interface easier for most customers to understand.

 

[BenTX]

As ajw22 said, Hayward had some problems with the EcoStar. They changed the drive and re-named it the TriStar VSP. No more issues than any other brand now. That being said, my EcoStar is over 12 years old with never an issue. I wouldn't hesitate to get a new one if needed, and I still sell them occasionally when I can get them. I have found their interface easier for most customers to understand.

Thanks 1poolman1!
This forum has helped a ton and below is what I have decided to do.

Filter: Aqua Star 250 sq.ft cartridge to replace my 48 sq.ft Hayward DE. (Filter)
Pump: Pentair Intelliflo3 with I/O. Mainly for the ability to control my booster pump through the I/O board and have some basic automation.

I ended up going between the aqua star 3 hp pump and the Intelliflo3. I really like the aqua star but would not have any automation capabilities for my booster pump built it.
Pool automation is to expensive to bit the bullet on it all right now.

Next up is to start getting my plumbing in order.

 

[mknauss]

Filter: Aqua Star 250 sq.ft cartridge

That is very small for your size pool. I would suggest a minimum of 400 SF.

 

[BenTX]

That is very small for your size pool. I would suggest a minimum of 400 SF.

I thought so as well, but take a look at their documents. The 200 sq.ft is the equivalent to a 520 cartridge from pent/Hayward. Just because of how deep the pleats are. Also their flow rate is very impressive for the size. They basically changed their center sleeve to use bigger slot’s for their water to flow through.

Aqua Star Filter Details

 

[mknauss]

Turnover is a worthless measure. SF of the filter material is. I do not see how what they say makes any difference. You do not run a pump at high flow rates anymore. Long and Slow is the name of the game with a VS pump.

 

[BenTX]

Turnover is a worthless measure. SF of the filter material is. I do not see how what they say makes any difference. You do not run a pump at high flow rates anymore. Long and Slow is the name of the game with a VS pump.

I am looking forward to the savings on energy for sure. I understand what your saying, and yes I’m probably getting hung up on the flow numbers a bit to much.

My main goal was to simplify pool maint. I know it is quite hard to guess on how many times a year I would have to clean this filter with my size of pool, but if you were guessing, do you think it would be more than once a quarter? Obviously with staying on top of the other weekly cleaning/maint that needs to be done.

This filter takes about 10 minutes or less to clean, I know there are lots of other things that could cause this to take longer but that is what I have found with others having this filter.

 

[mknauss]

If my filter had to be broken down and cleaned more than once a year, that is too much. Hard to say for yours. I believe you will be lucky to get 3 months with that very small filter element.

10 minutes or less to clean. Time it your first time.

Take care.

 

[BenTX]

If my filter had to be broken down and cleaned more than once a year, that is too much. Hard to say for yours. I believe you will be lucky to get 3 months with that very small filter element.

10 minutes or less to clean. Time it your first time.

Take care.

Thanks Mknauss for talking some sense into me.

I went with the waterway crystal water 525 and the Pentair intelliflo3.

 

[BenTX]

I just bought my intelliflo3 and new filter, now I’m trying to plan the plumbing.
I have taken my best stab at what I believe to be my best plumbing layout.

My current plumbing is all 2” minus the pressure side to my fountain in my spa and and the pressure side of my sweeper, which are 1.5”.

Suction lines consist of the following:

1. One 2” for 2 skimmers
2. One 2” for 2 main drains
3. One 2” for spa main drain

The thought is to create a 2.5” manifold feeding the suction side of the pump. Allowing the flow to even out a bit more across all 3 suction lines listed above. There would always be at least 2 suction lines open at a time.
It would stay 2.5 until after the filter, and go back to 2” or 1.5” where needed within the return manifold.

Is this even worth it?
I thought it would be given the multiple suction lines, making things that much more efficient.

My concern is, if I had just my spa jets going with all 3 suction lines and the pump at 100%, would I blow the 2” pipe for the jets or the jets themselves.
Also with the head loss, I did not thing I would come to risky levels for this particular scenario.

If so then I would leave it at 2.5 going into the filter, and then the return side of the filter would be 2”.

I’m very interested in what you all have to say.

I do plan to dig around my current supply side and see if I can separate the skimmers into their own independent suctions.

 

[BenTX]

Just bumping this up.
Going to be working on it this weekend.

 

[Texas Splash]

Your illustration looks very good. Let's see if @mas985 has any comments about your manifold concern.

 

[mas985]

The thought is to create a 2.5” manifold feeding the suction side of the pump. Allowing the flow to even out a bit more across all 3 suction lines listed above. There would always be at least 2 suction lines open at a time.
It would stay 2.5 until after the filter, and go back to 2” or 1.5” where needed within the return manifold.

Is this even worth it?
I thought it would be given the multiple suction lines, making things that much more efficient.

Probably won't help much but it probably wouldn't hurt either. The flow through each of the suction lines is more dictated by each plumbing run which has different lengths, fittings, etc. This is why you should have valves on each suction line for flow adjustment. As for efficiency, the header is so short that it won't have much of an impact. But as I said earlier, it wouldn't hurt anything either. In fact, it will help with noise a bit. larger pipe has lower velocity for a given flow rate which helps to reduce noise at high flow rates.

However, keep in mind that most of the time the pump should be running on low RPM where differences in head loss don't matter that much. It only really makes a difference with high flow rates and hopefully, the pump will not be used that much at high flow rates.

My concern is, if I had just my spa jets going with all 3 suction lines and the pump at 100%, would I blow the 2” pipe for the jets or the jets themselves.
Also with the head loss, I did not thing I would come to risky levels for this particular scenario.

Not possible to blow PVC lines with a residential pool pump. At most, the largest can only produce about 45 PSI and 2" PVC is rated more than 10x that. Poor glue joints are another story.

Btw, you mentioned that the spa has only 2" lines. How many jets do you have and what size is the nozzle?

 

[BenTX]

Probably won't help much but it probably wouldn't hurt either. The flow through each of the suction lines is more dictated by each plumbing run which has different lengths, fittings, etc. This is why you should have valves on each suction line for flow adjustment. As for efficiency, the header is so short that it won't have much of an impact. But as I said earlier, it wouldn't hurt anything either. In fact, it will help with noise a bit. larger pipe has lower velocity for a given flow rate which helps to reduce noise at high flow rates.

However, keep in mind that most of the time the pump should be running on low RPM where differences in head loss don't matter that much. It only really makes a difference with high flow rates and hopefully, the pump will not be used that much at high flow rates.

If it's not going to hurt anything then I'll go for the 2.5 on the manifolds and call it a day. I am all for having it run as quite and efficient as possible.

The only times I can see running the pump close or at full is when using the spa. The spa is above the pool and overflows back down into it.

What's the chance that both skimmers tie in close to the one suction line right at my pool equipment? like i said a few posts ago, i plan to dig down and see if i can make them be on seperate lines to better control the suction of each skimmer.

Not possible to blow PVC lines with a residential pool pump. At most, the largest can only produce about 45 PSI and 2" PVC is rated more than 10x that. Poor glue joints are another story.

Btw, you mentioned that the spa has only 2" lines. How many jets do you have and what size is the nozzle?

I have 4 jets, and when i measure the inside of the jet it is 1", the overall body size is 2 3/8". attached is a picture.
Based off of what I am reading my pump is not going to push enough water through that 2" pipe for all 4 of these jest.
should i reduce the size of the nozzel?