Moving.. Going to do a DIY Build.

[ShallowWater]

Are there good sources for information? Good reads?

I'm a licensed structural engineer by trade and am proficient in the trades for buildings although now I like to point and instruct rather than do the actual work as I ease into retirement.. At any rate, where moving and I want to build a pool where we end up rather than get what's there like we have with the current pool.

I do know I want something similar but I don't need to win the "deepest pool" competition. We're talking a max depth of maybe 4 feet and a smaller footprint as we're more interested in enjoying a cocktail in the pool in the hot summer than jumping off rocks or going down a slide..

What I like about the current pool is the multiple pumps. There's three total for water features, spa booster and the general multi-speed filtration and primary spa pump. I know how this works when I tell it to do something but am not completely sure on the piping and valving so a plumbing diagram would help. Basically the water features and spa booster are separately plumbed to do those specific things but the main pump switches from general filtration to spa mode with Jandy Actuators. (JVA's). It is this plumbing that I'm interested in a piping and control wiring diagram for. Also, I'd like to do in-floor vacuuming rather than a vacuum running around..

I installed a Pentair Quad DE filter with Multi-port valve a couple of years ago and that works great! I also like SWG for chlorinating. Of course the heater needs to be rated for SWG so titanium??

A good friend of mine is a general contractor specializing in outdoor kitchens so he's in contact with the pool subs all the time. I already had a plaster guy and electrician he recommended do repairs to our existing pool to prep it for sale and I know I can get references for all the subs to do this project like excavation, steel installation and tieing, gunite and plumbing it. Did I miss anything?

 

[Newdude]

Hey SW !! Our go to starting point for builds (either way) is

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

We call them Owner Builds and if you search for that, or OB, you’ll find oodles of similar projects, probably even several just like you are thinking. Good luck and keep us posted on the journey. Remember the most important part in the description of the construction threads...... we like pictures.

 

[setsailsoon]

SW,

You're way ahead of the game with your structural background! When we do our next house I'll be OB'ing the house and pool. Definitely look through the reference @Newdude gave you. Here's a couple things from to add to your list:

• Standard subcontract with lien release section and clear scope and specs for each. Should be short, "real English and minimal legalize", fair to both parties.
• Do you plan to do all the permitting? If not, make sure one or multiple subs are responsible for their permitting.
• Electrical and Automation plus perhaps gas plumber subs will be needed as well.
• Decide who buys what and make sure that's addressed in your subcontracts.
• Put together a schedule based on your subcontractors estimated time to complete.
• Figure out your critical path schedule and add appropriate float for your area and time of year. A schedule with no float will result in late delivery 100% of the time.
• Develop your interface management plan that covers all interfaces for the job. Sub to sub, permits, inspections, material and equipment delivery actual vs planned, weather delays all need to be managed by the builder. In this case that is you.
• Develop an inspection plan and execute to it. Final payment to all subs should be dependent on final inspection. Defects must be discovered early to correct at lowest possible cost and this requires experienced inspectors that know how to work with subs so there's not a continual battle. This is best for you and the subs. You're in great shape on structural but you should self-critique objectively to cover the other disciplines such as electrical, automation, plumbing etc. If you need any help with disciplines other than structural now would be a great time to connect with them.
• Generate a cash flow plan based on your schedule and make sure the funds are available as needed. Late pay on subs can start a downward spiral for any project.

I hope this is helpful and please provide us plenty of updates as you go. I hope to follow your path in a year or two. Hoping to get a complete guide from you!

Chris

 

[ShallowWater]

SW,

You're way ahead of the game with your structural background! When we do our next house I'll be OB'ing the house and pool. Definitely look through the reference @Newdude gave you. Here's a couple things from to add to your list:

• Standard subcontract with lien release section and clear scope and specs for each. Should be short, "real English and minimal legalize", fair to both parties.
• Do you plan to do all the permitting? If not, make sure one or multiple subs are responsible for their permitting.
• Electrical and Automation plus perhaps gas plumber subs will be needed as well.
• Decide who buys what and make sure that's addressed in your subcontracts.
• Put together a schedule based on your subcontractors estimated time to complete.
• Figure out your critical path schedule and add appropriate float for your area and time of year. A schedule with no float will result in late delivery 100% of the time.
• Develop your interface management plan that covers all interfaces for the job. Sub to sub, permits, inspections, material and equipment delivery actual vs planned, weather delays all need to be managed by the builder. In this case that is you.
• Develop an inspection plan and execute to it. Final payment to all subs should be dependent on final inspection. Defects must be discovered early to correct at lowest possible cost and this requires experienced inspectors that know how to work with subs so there's not a continual battle. This is best for you and the subs. You're in great shape on structural but you should self-critique objectively to cover the other disciplines such as electrical, automation, plumbing etc. If you need any help with disciplines other than structural now would be a great time to connect with them.
• Generate a cash flow plan based on your schedule and make sure the funds are available as needed. Late pay on subs can start a downward spiral for any project.

I hope this is helpful and please provide us plenty of updates as you go. I hope to follow your path in a year or two. Hoping to get a complete guide from you!

Chris

This is great information.

• Yeah the lien release is a must do. Thanks for the reminder!
• I have to get a permit? LOL I will do the permit. Around here it is a pool permit and separate plumbing and electrical fees on one "combo" permit.
• I'll do the automation (well part of it anyhow) to tie it into a centralized HA controller. I'll probably use my Autelis that will come with me since they are no longer sold. I can do electrical but I'll have the electrician do most of it. Don't forget that bond wire!
• I'll be buying the equipment but yeah the plumbing and and reinforcement, etc will be by the subs.
• You mean I have to do a Gantt Chart?! Okay.. Good recommendation!
• Again, great information. I'll need to work the management of the project out ahead of time but be flexible as it progresses. Project management is what I do for my day job so no problem there.
• Before I became an engineer I worked as an inspector but this is more specific. I may engage the services of an inspection company ad hoc to do this. I do want the gunite (AKA Shotcrete or in pure structural language, pneumatically applied concrete) and plaster tested for proper mix, water content, water / cement ratio and will be taking samples for 7 and 28 day breaking strength. Guess I need to include in the specs remedies for materials not meeting the specs.
• Dang! The financials?! I need to worry about that? Right up there with inspections, this is critical. Thanks for the head's up here!

This won't take a year. If we get the house we're looking at tomorrow, planning will start right after we move in and construction will start shortly thereafter. My wife insists it is ready for use by summer! And as hot as it gets around here so do I.

 

[kimkats]

I am SO in on this one!!! Here is hoping you get the house!

Tell your wife it might be late summer as it is harder to get subs on your own as they are SO busy with their bread&butter builders right now.

Kim

 

[setsailsoon]

I do want the gunite (AKA Shotcrete or in pure structural language, pneumatically applied concrete) and plaster tested for proper mix, water content, water / cement ratio and will be taking samples for 7 and 28 day breaking strength. Guess I need to include in the specs remedies for materials not meeting the specs.

You're gonna have the best inspection of concrete that's probably been performed on a pool... this is a two-edged sword you have to be careful about. In periods of high demand you'll get a lot of no-bids on this. Or worse you'll get suppliers that know they're holding you up and consequential damages are on you. I would balance more on prevention. Once bad concrete is in the field it's a huge problem to resolve. Better to focus on ensuring the batch plant is monitored and rejected at the batch there in my experience. If they know you're watching the failure rate is near zero.

Hope this helps.

Chris

 

[cowboycasey]

I am also going to be doing this on my build, I was thinking not many do it and you come along and nail it on the head

 

[ShallowWater]

Just chiming in. Our house closes today and we're putting in an offer on a house sans pool. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all the tips!

 

[kimkats]

But, but, but where will you lay your head until you close on the new house?

 

[ShallowWater]

Well, 2021 was a very difficult year to try to buy a house. We finally closed on one in October 2021 but spent the last 9 months completely remodeling the interior.. A serious remodel with moving walls and building an addition for a laundry room and a new, expanded kitchen.


Anyhow, that's done and out of the way and it's come time to build the pool. Our plan is attached. I'm looking for assistance on the equipment list but I'm looking at two Pentair pumps (1.5HP VS circulation and 3HP SS spa booster), Pentair Salt Chlorination, Screen Logic and a Quad DE Filter. Where's a good place to procure? I'm lining up contractor's now and have excavation, rebar, gunite and plaster covered. I'm meeting with a plumber today and am already in contact with the electrician that did some things with my previous pool as well as a concrete contractor. Any assistance would be great before I get too far in with subs! BTW, I got the permit on Tuesday this week so that's out of the way.

 

[kimkats]

moving walls and building an addition for a laundry room and a new, expanded kitchen.

OH MY! How stressful that had to be!!!! We would not say not to seeing pics of the work you did on the house!

Pool:
I will call in @Jimrahbe @ajw22 and any others who can chime in for the equipment.

I do have to ask about "Ice Chest Wells". Can't say I have seen that in a pool before. Are they sunk in or sticking up and out? Help me "see" what they are like.

 

[ShallowWater]

OH MY! How stressful that had to be!!!! We would not say not to seeing pics of the work you did on the house!

Pool:
I will call in @Jimrahbe @ajw22 and any others who can chime in for the equipment.

I do have to ask about "Ice Chest Wells". Can't say I have seen that in a pool before. Are they sunk in or sticking up and out? Help me "see" what they are like.

I'll gather up some pics of construction of the house.

These are sunk into the coping so to speak. At the Baja Shelf it will create a little permanent table with a hole in it to drop an ice chest full of beer. I'm thinking of good ole Coleman Marine Ice Chests that have been made for decades and seem will be available going forth so they'll be easy to get in the same size later. The handles are made to fit into tight spaces too, sliding up and down, not needing to swing out on a hinge.

 

[ShallowWater]

My wife and I thunk it up while at a swim up bar in Mexico.. How to replicate that without having to hire a bartender? Have the ice chest built into the pool deck!! The one by the spa will be raised up above the bench at 16" so it is reachable from both the spa and the pool.

 

[kimkats]

Neat idea for sure. Here are things I want you to watch for and think about. Sounds like it will not be a hole in the shelf for someone to step in and twist their ankle so that is good. Will pool water get in the hole? If so you are going to have to find ways to keep that water clean. I will think about ideas as the build happens and I can see it in pics.

 

[ShallowWater]

Current Parts List. Still waiting on a few more items. Thoughts on my comments in green?

PEN520545
PENTAIR LDCNTR 8SC IC40 EZTCH
EASYTOUCH SYSTEM POOL/SPA 8SC-IC40 W/ ITH SALT SYSTEM

PEN522104
PENTAIR SCREENLOGIC BUNDLE
SCREENLOGIC BUNDLE WIRELESS CONNECTION INTERFACE

PEN460736 400K BTU
PENTAIR HTR 400 MASTERTEMP
HEATER PENTAIR MASTERTEMP 400K BTU LOW NOX NATURAL 460736
(Thoughts on going with a Heat Pump instead?)

PEN188593
PENTAIR FLT QUAD DE 80
FILTER PENTAIR QUAD 80SQ D.E.
(This seems over-sized to me for my approximately 11,000gal shallow pool, might go to a 60. Either way, due to supply issues I may end up with a temporary cartridge filter.)

PEN261049 2"
PENTAIR VALVE 2"UNIVERSAL HIFLOW
VALVE HI-FLOW SAND/D.E. 2IN SIDE MOUNT NO BULKHEAD FITTING

2 PEN011056 1
PENTAIR PMP INTELLIFLO VSF
PUMP PENTAIR INTELLIFLO 2 VSF VARIABLE SPEED 011056
(May end up with 011076 due to current supply issues at about $200 more each)

4 PEN602055 100'
PENTAIR LT GLOBRITE 12V 100FT COLOR
GLOBRITE LED LIGHT COLOR 100FT CORD 12V 602055
(Might add another due to all the corners in my pool. Discussing with electrician now)

4 PEN620040
PENTAIR NICHE GNITE GLOBRT
GUNITE NICHE FOR GLOBRITE

2 PEN619962
PENTAIR XFMR 120 TO 12 13 14 VAC 100W
TRANSFORMER POOL RATED 12-14V 100W 619962 PENTAIR

1 PEN360473

PENTAIR CLNR REBEL V2
CLEANER PENTAIR REBEL 360275
(I have a Kreepy Krawler, may just use it instead of spending more money)

WATERWAY VAC LOCK 1 12"/ MPT GRAY
GREY VAC LOCK

Current Contractor Pricing seems decent. Not sure if I'm allowed to post. PM if interested or Mods let me know if this is allowable.

 

[ShallowWater]

On my previous pool I had the water fall and lights come on at low speed using Z-Wave Relays and my Home Automation System at certain times of the day and then go off again, usually in the morning at 5am when I'm up and the evening after sunset for the "On" then something like 30 minutes after sunrise and 9:30 pm for the "Off", weekdays then a different schedule on the weekends for the coolness factor. This was done with an older system and relays to control a 4-Speed SuperFlo VS Pump and the lights.

Is something similar going to be possible with the screen logic? I also had the spa set to automatically shut down at midnight in case it was inadvertently left on. I understand being able to control things, but I want some things to be Automatic like these things. There's a difference between Control and Automation.

 

[ShallowWater]

OH MY! How stressful that had to be!!!! We would not say not to seeing pics of the work you did on the house!

Pool:
I will call in @Jimrahbe @ajw22 and any others who can chime in for the equipment.

I do have to ask about "Ice Chest Wells". Can't say I have seen that in a pool before. Are they sunk in or sticking up and out? Help me "see" what they are like.

I have several hundred pics of the demo and construction I'd like to share without posting too much private info. I was going to post a google photos link but they are geocoded. Any suggestions?

 

[kimkats]

Not sure. Let me think on it.

 

[ShallowWater]

@kimkats @Jimrahbe @ajw22

Thoughts on the equipment list? I'm trying to stay on budget!

 

[ajw22]

Thoughts on the equipment list? I'm trying to stay on budget!

I will not help your budget.

I would go with the IntelliCenter bundle for about $500 more then the EasyTouch + ScreenLogic cost.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Heat pump is more expensive to acquire then a gas heater. Do you have a spa? Depends how you are going to use the heater.

Pentair has a Heat Pump Calculator to determine the appropriate size Heat Pump for your location. Pentair seems to do honest calculations based on the physics and efficiencies of each type of pump and energy source.

Raypak also has a Heat Pump Heater Sizing App.

To get the most accurate cost comparison you should change the default electric kwh, natural gas price, and propane price to actual prices in your area.

I would not get GloBrite lights. They have too much early failure. Use Microbrite lights.

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com