Main Pump not starting

[FST]

hello,
need your urgent advice.

I have a complete pentair solution, easy touch, intellifo, chlorinator, etc. and do have the following problem:

-> main Filter pump doesnt start.

I checked the following:
a) replaced the power relays. thought it might be that, since I dont hear this 'click' sound once the relay is activated, like on all the other relays.....no change
b) also swapped the power cables from circuit board FLTR Pump to AUX1.....no change
c) connected 220V power supply, directly at the main pump and it works... but then of course I can't control it

=>> so the pump and relays are ok, it just doesn't get the ON command, even in time out or service mode, I cant switch it on, local pump panel is also off.

Running out of ideas, can you please ADVISE of a possible root cause and solution. what ON commands are required? wlo filter pump ON, the chlorinator doesn't work, the heater, PH measurement, dosing, etc.
I am running currently on the secondary pump normally used for vacuuming.

attached a picture, there are many cables connected to the Main pump relay but as you can see it is rather chaotic....(note: bought the house with the pool and have no further details.)

 

[Jimrahbe]

FST,

An IntelliFlo pump should be getting constant AC power. The AC power does not go through any relays. The pump is controlled by an RS-485 cable..

The first thing to check is that the pump and EasyTouch can "talk" to each other..

Put the system into the Auto mode and then look at the pump's display LCD. It should say.. "Display Not Active". If it does not, then the EasyTouch and IntelliFlo are not communicating.

The next test is to put the system into the Service mode and ensure that you can manually control the pump from the pump's display panel. In the Service mode the pump will only run from the pump's control panel.

Tell us what you find.

Please show me a better and larger pic of the inside of your EasyTouch..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[FST]

FST,

An IntelliFlo pump should be getting constant AC power. The AC power does not go through any relays. The pump is controlled by an RS-485 cable..

The first thing to check is that the pump and EasyTouch can "talk" to each other..

Put the system into the Auto mode and then look at the pump's display LCD. It should say.. "Display Not Active". If it does not, then the EasyTouch and IntelliFlo are not communicating.

The next test is to put the system into the Service mode and ensure that you can manually control the pump from the pump's display panel. In the Service mode the pump will only run from the pump's control panel.

Tell us what you find.

Please show me a better and larger pic of the inside of your EasyTouch..

Thanks,

Jim R.

hi Jim.
thanks for your feedback, fully agree that the pump should get constant AC.
As far as I remember the pump was always operated via main power on/off. I never saw on the pump display "Display Not Active"......when the pump is on, the display is on, and I can operate all functions. In service the pump is off and therefore no display and no operation. that's how it always worked (as mentioned earlier I bought the house with the pool, so have no further info why it was done this way)....it worked like that for 2 years and wonder why not anymore, but agree that seems very wrong.

What exactly would you like to see of the easy touch? I can take some more pic. The one attached was resized while uploading, guess that's why its hard to see for you.

 

[Jimrahbe]

FST,

The fact that the AC power to the pump is run through the Pump/Filter relay is not what is keeping the pump from running, but it is a stupid way to run the system and easily fixable by just moving two wires on the relay. You really want the pump to get power when in the Service mode so that it can be run without automation..

If you do not see "Display not active" on the pump's display then the pump will never run using the automation system.

How do you control the system? Do you have ScreenLogic, or do you use Pentair Remotes, or do you just use the EasyTouch panel controls?

For the pump to say, "Display not active", there has to be an RS-485 control cable from the pump going back to the EasyTouch. I assume this cable is there???

Has anyone opened the top of the EasyTouch lately? This is where the RS-485 cable connects to the RS-485 com port.. It is possible that the connection came loose.

It is possible that the com port is bad, but that would mean that none of your other remotes, or ScreenLogic, would work.. Can you turn on say the pool lights using a remote or ScreenLogic?

It could just be that RS-485 chips inside the pump have gone bad..

It could be the RS-485 cable is bad, right at the connection to the pump, we have seen that connector corrode. Or the cable may have been cut.

The more pics you show me the better to help understand your whole system.

When in the Auto mode, what does the pump's display show?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[FST]

FST,

The fact that the AC power to the pump is run through the Pump/Filter relay is not what is keeping the pump from running, but it is a stupid way to run the system and easily fixable by just moving two wires on the relay. You really want the pump to get power when in the Service mode so that it can be run without automation..

If you do not see "Display not active" on the pump's display then the pump will never run using the automation system.

How do you control the system? Do you have ScreenLogic, or do you use Pentair Remotes, or do you just use the EasyTouch panel controls?

For the pump to say, "Display not active", there has to be an RS-485 control cable from the pump going back to the EasyTouch. I assume this cable is there???

Has anyone opened the top of the EasyTouch lately? This is where the RS-485 cable connects to the RS-485 com port.. It is possible that the connection came loose.

It is possible that the com port is bad, but that would mean that none of your other remotes, or ScreenLogic, would work.. Can you turn on say the pool lights using a remote or ScreenLogic?

It could just be that RS-485 chips inside the pump have gone bad..

It could be the RS-485 cable is bad, right at the connection to the pump, we have seen that connector corrode. Or the cable may have been cut.

The more pics you show me the better to help understand your whole system.

When in the Auto mode, what does the pump's display show?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks again, the pump is connected properly and working now as supposed to be. What’s still not working is the ON command of the heater, chlorinator, ph reading, it went on earlier when main pump started Via filter pump power relay. You will see the to left relay and various cables. Any idea what’s still wrong?

 

[Jimrahbe]

FST,

Your wiring does not look correct to me, but then again, I have no clue what each wire is connected to.. Basically, your wiring should be as follows..

The relay is labled pins 2, 4, 6, 8 from left to right.

Pin 2 is L1 input and Pin 4 is L1 output
Pin 6 is L2 input and Pins 8 is L2 output.

You want the L1 wire of your 240 volts AC to come in on pin 2
You want the L2 wire of your 240 Volts AC to come in on Pin 6

You want your pump connected between Pins 2 and 6, as this will provide constant AC to the pump.

You want everything else to connect between pin 4 and pin 8.. Assuming it needs 240 volts AC

If the device you are trying to power only needs 120 Volts AC than you only need to use pin 4 OR pin 8

I assume the white and yellow wires are going to the SWCG transformer.. They need 240 volts, so, they need to be wired to pins 4 and 8.

It could be that you use a different electrical grid than we do, ??? So tell me what you think is connected to each pin of the pump filter relay.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[FST]

Hi Jim,
that’s exactly what I am doing.
e.g. to connect the Chem I used pin 4 and 8…. But nothin happens….if I connect to pin 2 and 6 it works but of course constantly on.
what am I doing wrong?

 

[Jimrahbe]

FST,

Do you have a voltmeter?

Please tell me if the White and Yellow wires that are connected to the pump filter relay go to the large SWCG transformer??

Keep in mind that the pump/filter relay will not close unless you are in AUTO and in the Pool, or Spa mode, and the pump is being told to run by the automation.

If you can, use your above pic and tell me where each wire is going from left to right...

What did you do to get your pump to have constant AC power?? Did you move the wiring on the pump filter relay or somewhere else? I don't see how it is possible with the way your pump filter relay is currently wired.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[FST]

Thanks Jim, now used another power relay (Aux2) and all works fine. It was indeed the power relay as initially suspected and with your helps the pump is finally connected properly.

Any advise where to buy a new power relay? Many thanks again, really appreciated.

Regards,
Frank