Is this a good price ..

[Mstrlucky74]

You have lots of bids, with widely varying sizes, types, makes and models.

If you are going with Hayward….
Insist on a C-4030 or larger filter
Insist on a triton vs900 or 950 pump
Get the largest gas heater you can afford. I’d get a 400K BTU

On the chlor sync, or any other SWG, make sure to get a 40K cell or larger.

Is the Max Flo VS500SP23520VSP Hayward Pump along the same line as triton VS900?
Also what do you mean by 40k cell. I'm looking up the SWG's I've been quoted and can't find any reference to "cell" in the spec sheets. Thank you

 

[suzook]

Is the Max Flo VS500SP23520VSP Hayward Pump along the same line as triton VS900?
Also what do you mean by 40k cell. I'm looking up the SWG's I've been quoted and can't find any reference to "cell" in the spec sheets. Thank you

Don't overthink the pump as long as its VS. The maxflo vs500 will do just fine. Also the aqua cal cell included in your estimate will cover a 30K gallon pool. I still had my ppm1 cell working after 11 years. It will do just fine. Again, bigger isn't ALWAYS better.

 

[Newdude]

Also what do you mean by 40k cell. I'm looking up the SWG's I've been quoted and can't find any reference to "cell" in the spec sheets. Thank you

The cell is rated for pool gallons (40k.... gallons). The industry uses a 1X rating assuming a 24/7 runtime. They don't care how quick you use up the cells finite life and probably want you as a repeat customer sooner, nor do they pay your electric to run the pump around the clock.


A 2X unit/cell needs to run 12 hours in the peak season

A 3X unit needs to run 8 hours in the peak season.

reach 10k hours = cell used up like a gas tank.

Going larger is much cheaper than the lifespan gained. 20k to 40k usually costs around 20% for 100% more lifespan. The ROI is awesome. It's literally buy one get one 80% off, except it's one bigger cell and not 2 actual small cells.

Is the Max Flo VS500SP23520VSP Hayward Pump along the same line as triton VS900?

Again. Apples to oranges.

However, in this case we aren't looking for the most delicious apple, and only need a snack, so either apple or orange will do.

 

[PoolStored]

Is the Max Flo VS500SP23520VSP Hayward Pump along the same line as triton VS900?
Also what do you mean by 40k cell. I'm looking up the SWG's I've been quoted and can't find any reference to "cell" in the spec sheets. Thank you

The max Flo is a medium head pump. The tritons are high head pumps. That means the Tritons can move the same water at a lower rpm. This will save a bunch of electricity. Worth the investment.



On the cell size, @Newdude has you covered. You have a 20k pool, you need a 40k cell.

 

[Mstrlucky74]

So I told the builder I wanted C-4030 filter and 400k btu heater and he responded:

That’s a real overkill you only have aprox 15k gals of water the 400k is for a 30k pool,ok we will go over fine points when I see you thanks

 

[Newdude]

This will save a bunch of electricity. Worth the investment.

Will the 3hp VS save $700 - $1000 in electricity over the 1.6 Hp VS ? Because that's the price difference and it's not likely to ever recover it.

I agree I would want the larger pump but the ROI doesn't work at modern MSRPs.

 

[PoolStored]

Depends on a lot of factors, SWG flow requirements, heater requirements, etc. The heater is going to require higher flow (2200 v 1400 for SWG).

Ignore that difference for the moment. Assume the difference is 250w, running 24/7 at .15/kWh, you’d save ~350$ per year…higher if you factor in the higher flow requirement of the heater.

I’m out today, when I get home tonight I can take a closer look and run some numbers through MAS spreadsheets.

 

[Newdude]

I’m out today, when I get home tonight I can take a closer look and run some numbers through MAS spreadsheets.

Awesome. I'd love to see today's approximate #s. When pump prices doubled, so did the gap between 1.6 and 3 Hp.

higher if you factor in the higher flow requirement of the heater.

Theoretically a bypass is already installed to increase the efficiency when not heating.

 

[PoolStored]

That’s a real overkill you only have aprox 15k gals of water the 400k is for a 30k pool,ok we will go over fine points when I see you thanks

A BTU is a BTU. The 400K uses the same amount of gas to heat the same water volume and temperature rise as a 250. The benefit is the time it takes to heat the pool, and a shorter time the pump has to run at higher flow rate required by the heater. Saves time and money.

 

[PoolStored]

Theoretically a bypass is already installed to increase efficiency when not heating.

Yep, I meant “ignoring the time the pump will run at higher speed for the heater”

 

[suzook]

Seriously a 3HP pump on a 15k gallon pool with NO extra features??? Waste of $.

 

[Newdude]

Also, in the northeast, we have lots of heat loss that needs to be overcome in order to gain heat. You may need to make up 30 degrees at times if the heater has been off for more than a couple days.

It will take BTUs to do so.

Seriously a 3HP pump on a 15k gallon pool with NO extra features??? Waste of $.

Poolstored will run the math and we'll have a concrete answer if the ROI is there.

Unless I was rubbing two pennies together to get into the pool game, I'd always want the larger pump. I am on team 'less stressed pump' lives longer. However, I also fully admit that irrigation pumps running full bore their entire lives outlive any other pump. So I do believe my preference is all in my head. Lol.

 

[PoolStored]

Seriously a 3HP pump on a 15k gallon pool with NO extra features??? Waste of $.

Yep. Not about the HP or pool size, it’s about the electricity to move the water. A higher HP pump, with high head, can move the same water as a low head, low HP pump, and use less electricity. Add in a small sized gas heater (higher flow requirement), and in the NE with higher heat loss, 3HP makes all the sense in the world.

Doesn’t have to be a Hayward…that’s just what all these builders are offering. Calimar 3 vsp and waterway defender 2.7 are lower price point options.

 

[Newdude]

The Calimar is a great point. It's $70 from the 1.65 to 3 HP. That's a no brainer.

With at least a $700 and possibly a $1000 increase using Hayward/ Pentair / Jandy, it may not work on a simple plumbing system.

 

[Mstrlucky74]

My pool guy sad someone must be filling my head with stuff. Said why the high head pump. lol.

 

[Mstrlucky74]

Also told me....., with the heater and salt systems you need to run at least at 2000 rpm for them to work right see you soon

 

[Newdude]

with the heater and salt systems you need to run at least at 2000 rpm for them to work right

Then he's used to seeing his setups be inefficient with the smaller pump. Poolstored will likely be able to prove the 3HP will literally pay for itself, and quickly.

My swg runs at 700 RPM / 35W with a 3HP. I have to triple the wattage to get good skimming around 1200 RPMs but that's still a joke at 110W. 2000+ gets spendy quick on any pump.

 

[suzook]

Then he's used to seeing his setups be inefficient with the smaller pump. Poolstored will likely be able to prove the 3HP will literally pay for itself, and quickly.

My swg runs at 700 RPM / 35W with a 3HP. I have to triple the wattage to get good skimming around 1200 RPMs but that's still a joke at 110W. 2000+ gets spendy quick on any pump.

You sure about your # 's? I'm running 90watts at 1200 rpm on my 1.85hp pump.

 

[Newdude]

You sure about your # 's? I'm running 90watts at 1200 rpm on my 1.85hp pump

No two setups are the same. Lol. We need identical pools/plumbing side by side with different equipment in order to prove the differences.

But for any setup, the larger pump moves more water at the same RPM, allowing lower RPM and less energy to move the same water.

 

[PoolStored]

with the heater and salt systems you need to run at least at 2000 rpm for them to work right see you soon

He is correct on the heater, not on the salt. Most salt systems require 20-30GPM. I can get that down to about 1200RPM. I run at 1400 to protect from a dirty filter.
Gas heaters have different requirements. They are also a bit restrictive. The Raypak for example needs 20GPM for the 206, 25GPM for the 266, 35GPM for the 336, and 40GPM for the 300/406. When I run my heater, I need to run at 2200 to get 35 GPM.

I ran the numbers on the two VSP I recommended, the MaxFlo in one of the quotes, the Calimar, and a two speed super pump.

It is clear that the VSP is a clear winner over any single or two speed, the payback is obvious...get a VSP.
When it comes to the priciness of the higher HP VSP, two things are true:

1. The Calimar (or similar Waterway Defender [which I don't have pump curves for...) being at lower price points is the winner. At $519, after 5 years, you can buy another pump and still be cheaper than any of the Hayward VSPs.
2. There is savings in the larger VSP, but the payback period, for the pricey 3HP can be significant. The payback on the 950 is 7 years.

Net net:
Get a VSP, even if is smaller unit.
Gas heaters, and heat pumps are going to be restrictive and require higher GPM than the salt cell. Depending on how you use your heater, the payback calculation will change.