Hot Tubs... Bullfrog vs Caldera (with salt system)

[eco-help]

After nixing the in-ground spa idea we are now looking into hot tubs.. former Vita Spa owner (it leaked, I couldn't seem to fix it.. loved that spa otherwise)... we are looking at either Bullfrog R7L or Caldera Seychelles...

We really want the soft feel of salt (our pool has an SWG so we are used to that) but we are told we can't use salt with the Bullfrog.. warranty I guess... but we can with Caldera. (+ SWG benefits - "constant" chlorine additions to hot tub)

I really like the idea of the Bullfrog jetpacks (especially the neck ones that seem to direct the water to the top of the shoulder/neck area) and our local dealer even offers 30 day loaners... it has 2 dual pumps vs 1 dual / 1 single with the Caldera. On the other hand Caldera has the "Circuit stations(?)" seem to be good "euphoria" sounds great doesn't it?
Bullfrog states how less likely it is for a leak to develop (shell has less holes due to Jetpacks) -- something that plagued me with the Vita.

Pricing is crazy around $12-12,500 too - seems that there must be some strategy to bargain them down a bit...

Does anyone have any experience or even thoughts or advice on this?

Even though our Vita Spa had an Ozonator, I will try to avoid as I think it causes more problems (based on what I have read here.)


I appreciate your wisdom / any help here.

 

[ajw22]

Let's see if @RDspaguy has thoughts.

 

[eco-help]

Let's see if @RDspaguy has thoughts.

Thanks! I am thinking it wasn’t so smart to post thread in VIP area - limits visibility .. wasn’t sure where else it should go.

If this needs to be moved to a more appropriate area please do make that happen

 

[phonedave]

Good luck trying to negotiate price on a Bullfrog. They are so backed up with sales right now, and supply issues that they are not hurting for customers - in fact they just raised their prices.

I have had mine for about 10 months now, and I have been very happy with it. Really no complaints. I love the idea of the loaner jetpacks. I wish my dealer did that. I have the next blaster pack and my wife loves it. However I am 6'4" and even in the deep seats I feel that I have to slouch a bit to get my shoulders under it. Nothing drastic, just not sitting up entirely straight.

The R7 does come standard with 2 jet pumps. I'm not sure if it has a circulation pump standard or not. I would get one. I wish I did on mine. RD Spaguy will explain his outlook (and one I agree with) when it comes to Ozone and circulation pumps

Salt is a funny thing. Lots of manufacturers are scared of it. Or, conversely, they look at it as a handy way to avoid warranty payments. I will likely add salt to mine sometime in the future. I just don't like the idea of the drape over style. I would rather have an integrated system of some sort. I will eventually come up with something.

 

[eco-help]

Good luck trying to negotiate price on a Bullfrog. They are so backed up with sales right now, and supply issues that they are not hurting for customers - in fact they just raised their prices.

I have had mine for about 10 months now, and I have been very happy with it. Really no complaints. I love the idea of the loaner jetpacks. I wish my dealer did that. I have the next blaster pack and my wife loves it. However I am 6'4" and even in the deep seats I feel that I have to slouch a bit to get my shoulders under it. Nothing drastic, just not sitting up entirely straight.

The R7 does come standard with 2 jet pumps. I'm not sure if it has a circulation pump standard or not. I would get one. I wish I did on mine. RD Spaguy will explain his outlook (and one I agree with) when it comes to Ozone and circulation pumps

Salt is a funny thing. Lots of manufacturers are scared of it. Or, conversely, they look at it as a handy way to avoid warranty payments. I will likely add salt to mine sometime in the future. I just don't like the idea of the drape over style. I would rather have an integrated system of some sort. I will eventually come up with something.

Thanks for the reply!
We opted for the Bullfrog R7L, (secretly wanted the A7 or A8 but wow price and availability) --- the Caldera lounger caused floating and the only thing we liked was the floor massage"Euphoria Circuit" (the Seychelles model). With the Bullfrog we couldn't wet test but figure even if 2 seats work for each of us we can swap jetpacks to obtain a custom fit.
(we were able to borrow 2 extras!)
The model we got was a floor model (so delivery this week!) with the 2 regular pumps, circulation pump and Ozone (umm we have it so might as well use it?)-- I know it messes with Chlorine levels but will have to dig into that later. Also included is the FrogEase (you probably know this - but in case others read the post) which I will likely not bother with (going with a purge / maintenance with the AquaClarity - but I will search/post on the forum to be sure first)

Yes I figured negotiation wouldn't work but had to ask, maybe there was a discount or something I am not aware of. They gave us $1K off the floor model.
The dealer I went to said Bullfrog has a 30day Jetpack swap-out and anyway they (the dealer) will continue the 30 day loaner / swap-out after that. It is one of the reasons we swayed towards Bullfrog over the others.

if AquaClarity does what Jim from Ahh-Some told me yesterday I won't have to muck around with adding Chlorine more than ~1-2 times a week (+bather load) anyway. So I will store the Frog and skip the salt (I don't want to mess with warranty or damaging anything)...

I am sure there are many other areas (rabbit holes) to explore.. it's the best part of the experience for me...

Thanks again for the input... Hopefully RD Spaguy will provide thoughts on the Ozone / Circulation ... and if you think of anything else I am all ears

 

[phonedave]

Thanks for the reply!
We opted for the Bullfrog R7L, (secretly wanted the A7 or A8 but wow price and availability) --- the Caldera lounger caused floating and the only thing we liked was the floor massage"Euphoria Circuit" (the Seychelles model). With the Bullfrog we couldn't wet test but figure even if 2 seats work for each of us we can swap jetpacks to obtain a custom fit.
(we were able to borrow 2 extras!)
The model we got was a floor model (so delivery this week!) with the 2 regular pumps, circulation pump and Ozone (umm we have it so might as well use it?)-- I know it messes with Chlorine levels but will have to dig into that later. Also included is the FrogEase (you probably know this - but in case others read the post) which I will likely not bother with (going with a purge / maintenance with the AquaClarity - but I will search/post on the forum to be sure first)

Yes I figured negotiation wouldn't work but had to ask, maybe there was a discount or something I am not aware of. They gave us $1K off the floor model.
The dealer I went to said Bullfrog has a 30day Jetpack swap-out and anyway they (the dealer) will continue the 30 day loaner / swap-out after that. It is one of the reasons we swayed towards Bullfrog over the others.

if AquaClarity does what Jim from Ahh-Some told me yesterday I won't have to muck around with adding Chlorine more than ~1-2 times a week (+bather load) anyway. So I will store the Frog and skip the salt (I don't want to mess with warranty or damaging anything)...

I am sure there are many other areas (rabbit holes) to explore.. it's the best part of the experience for me...

Thanks again for the input... Hopefully RD Spaguy will provide thoughts on the Ozone / Circulation ... and if you think of anything else I am all ears

Here is how ozone work on a BF spa. A quantity of water is feed into a canister, that canister is flooded with ozone, the ozone sanitizes the water in the canister, the excess ozone gas is neutralized and vented, the water in the canister is feed back into the tub. The process repeats. The process only happens when the tub is running a filter cycle.

So you are batch sanitizing your water. The water that goes back into the tub is mixed around with the un-sanitized water. It will never kill everything in your water.

If you have a circulation pump that runs 24/7 then the ozone runs 24/7 (Except when you are in the tub, which the tub surmises is whenever you turn on the jets or otherwise mess with the controls.

I can tell you what @RDspaguy says about ozone. He says that it is useless unless you are running a 24/7 circulation pump. I would not go so far as to say useless, but I would say not worth the added cost of the tub.

Also, even with Ahh-Some you need to have a sanitizer in your water. Ahh-Some breaks down the biofilm so that you can use less Sanitizer because you do not have things stuck in the pipes, but it does not eliminate the need for a proper sanitizer level in your water. I use Ahh-Some water clarity. I add Chlorine every day - mostly. I use 2 oz of bleach, as a "maintenance" dose and 2 oz after we use the tub. I do not test every day, and every so often I test before I add the maintenance does and realize that I don't need to add one today. I don't think you are going to go 1 - 2 times a week, even with Aqua Clarity, the Ozone is going to eat too much chlorine.

 

[eco-help]

Thank you!
The hot tub was a floor model-dealer said all floor models have ozone and circulation pump.
I could run it 24/7 but as you said I then run out of chlorine.
I wish the frogease was workable but not being able to test CC (and I assume OCLV not possible)
What to do then physically unplug ozone?

 

[phonedave]

Thank you!
The hot tub was a floor model-dealer said all floor models have ozone and circulation pump.
I could run it 24/7 but as you said I then run out of chlorine.
I wish the frogease was workable but not being able to test CC (and I assume OCLV not possible)
What to do then physically unplug ozone?

I would myself would use it, but if you want to disconnect it, it just plugs into the spa controller. You should be able to just unplug it. I do not believe that unplugging it causes the spa to error (if you see a "buf" error, then it does and plug it back in)

 

[RDspaguy]

could run it 24/7 but as you said I then run out of chlorine.

Yes! That's exactly the point! And is why they say it is a "low chlorine" system.
One or two bathers in a spa will convert so much fc to cc that you will often need to shock at high (unuseable) levels to get rid of it, or use mps (even worse). Ozone eliminates that. Burns it out and lets you use clear, odorless, non-irritating water without the need of a chemistry experiment. Yeah, you need to add a little chlorine.
The problem is seeing it as a sanitizer, which it is not very effective at. I look at it as a shocking machine, which it is unrivaled at.

 

[eco-help]

I would myself would use it, but if you want to disconnect it, it just plugs into the spa controller. You should be able to just unplug it. I do not believe that unplugging it causes the spa to error (if you see a "buf" error, then it does and plug it back in)

Ok thanks! I guess 24/7 then, I will monitor closely and see

 

[eco-help]

Yes! That's exactly the point! And is why they say it is a "low chlorine" system.
One or two bathers in a spa will convert so much fc to cc that you will often need to shock at high (unuseable) levels to get rid of it, or use mps (even worse). Ozone eliminates that. Burns it out and lets you use clear, odorless, non-irritating water without the need of a chemistry experiment. Yeah, you need to add a little chlorine.
The problem is seeing it as a sanitizer, which it is not very effective at. I look at it as a shocking machine, which it is unrivaled at.

Ok thanks, so just let the ozone generator do its thing and add a bit of chlorine to take care of anything else but no need to shock at high levels. Presumably checking CC after a few hours should guide.
I appreciate your help and any guidance… I don’t want a chemistry experiment but do want clear and safe water

 

[BravoRomeo]

The R7 does come standard with 2 jet pumps. I'm not sure if it has a circulation pump standard or not. I would get one. I wish I did on mine. RD Spaguy will explain his outlook (and one I agree with) when it comes to Ozone and circulation pumps

@phonedave, just curious about your Bullfrog tub. I understand yours does not have the circulation pump. Does it have the jet intakes down in the footwells, or do the jets pull through the filters? Or both? Just wondering how the filtering is set up for non-circ tubs.

 

[phonedave]

@phonedave, just curious about your Bullfrog tub. I understand yours does not have the circulation pump. Does it have the jet intakes down in the footwells, or do the jets pull through the filters? Or both? Just wondering how the filtering is set up for non-circ tubs.

Both, intakes in the footwells and through the filters.