Help! New Pool Build - Arizona

[firstpoolnewbie]

Hi Everyone! We are currently in the process of finding a pool builder for our first pool and are SO confused. Things I always thought were good like salt water and in floor cleaners are turning out to be not so good from all my reading?? Would love if y'all could help with this quote we received and your thoughts.

Our backyard is tiny, so this will be a small plunge pool - 8'x12'. We wanted to do a wrap around bench (PB recommended in floor because of this). Also, with the pool so small and close to the house, will the water feature be too loud? Does the water feature really help with cooling? (In Arizona, we get +100 temps all the time). We're definitely getting bubblers/jets since we want the pool to double as a spa. Lastly, thoughts on design and having the pool slightly raised/any issues you foresee with that?

Appreciate all your inputs coming from this newbie!!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

A SWCG is the best way to chlorinate a pool. Lot's of us here have them and I would not have a pool without a SWCG.

The complexity of an IFCS makes it more trouble then it is worth. A modern robot pool cleaner can keep a pool cleaner then any IFCS. @proavia is in your area and can comment on them.

What model IntelliFlo pump?

No pool heater/chiller?

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

Welcome to TFP.

A SWCG is the best way to chlorinate a pool. Lot's of us here have them and I would not have a pool without a SWCG.

The complexity of an IFCS makes it more trouble then it is worth. A modern robot pool cleaner can keep a pool cleaner then any IFCS. @proavia is in your area and can comment on them.

What model IntelliFlo pump?

No pool heater/chiller?

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for your response! So by SWCG do you mean salt system as a whole and that's already included in the quote? Or is there a specific generator/equipment I need to ask for?

In terms of IFCS - would you still recommend a robot pool cleaner even with the wrap around bench? I think that's the main reason we were sold on the IFCS but if a robo cleaner is still the best option, we'd go with that!

Not sure about the IntelliFlo pump - I can clarify with the builder. The heater is at the bottom of the quote! It will be a natural gas heater. We were on the fence about getting a heater/chiller but it would be electric, and from what we researched it would take much longer to heat.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for your response! So by SWCG do you mean salt system as a whole and that's already included in the quote? Or is there a specific generator/equipment I need to ask for?

The Autopilot Digital Nano is OK. I prefer the IntelliChlor IC40 system. And the IntelliChlor will work better with your Pentair IntelliFlo pump.

With the AutoPilot you should put it on a separate timer as the primary safety system to ensure the SWG is not powered if the pump is off. Then you need to coordinate the pump schedule with the SWG timer.

While you have no automation specified you should be at least the Pentair IntelliConnect that can coordinate and control the IntelliFlo pump and IntelliChlor SWG and not need a separate timer.

In terms of IFCS - would you still recommend a robot pool cleaner even with the wrap around bench? I think that's the main reason we were sold on the IFCS but if a robo cleaner is still the best option, we'd go with that!

The IFCS is not going to clean the bench area much better then a robot cleaner. Either way you will use your pool brush to clean off the bench and brush any dirt onto the pool floor for the cleaner to pickup.

Not sure about the IntelliFlo pump - I can clarify with the builder. The heater is at the bottom of the quote! It will be a natural gas heater. We were on the fence about getting a heater/chiller but it would be electric, and from what we researched it would take much longer to heat.

What model 400K BTU heater?

How are you going to control your air blower and pool lights?

 

[proavia]

I would personally save the money an IFCS costs and put that saved money towards an Intellicenter automation system and a good robot cleaner (not a suction side or presure cleaner, a real robot... Maytronics or similar). In-floor cleaning is too complex and won't do the job as good as a robot. And since you mention being able to possibly use the pool as a spa also, there will be in wall spa jets to use to help blow dirt off the benches. Even if you chose an IFCS, you would still need to brush the benches - in addition to the walls - on a regular basis. A 12x8 pool with benches won't take any time at all to manually brush.

This list will provide the best and easiest pool care......

• Intelliflo pump
• Intellicenter automation w/ IC 40 SWG (will also control lights and blower, in addition to pump and SWG)
• A good robot cleaner (Maytronics or similar - you can get this on your own and save $$ over PB pricing)
• A TF-100 Pro Salt testkit
• Heater - or possible a heat pump that will both heat and cool (heat pump will take longer to heat the water to spa temps than a NG heater will).

Be sure to get exact model numbers and post them here. Someone will be along to review and will assist you in getting the most bang for your buck.

 

[PCR]

Your pool looks like it will be a lovely oasis in your back yard! Good luck with your build! My thoughts on your floor cleaning situation ... Robot vacuums are great; I have one and wouldn't vacuum my pool any other way. They generally don't clean benches, though, unless there is a pretty good depth of water on top of them. You have an 8X12 pool where you have a bench all the way around - let's say it's 12" front to back, taking away a foot of floor space on each side. That leaves you 6x10 floor space to actually vacuum. That's relatively small, and I'm not sure either spending $3K on an IFCS or buying a several hundred dollar robot is worth it. For this size pool, you might consider saving money here and just using some sort of manual vacuum - maybe a battery-powered small cordless vacuum (like a Pool Blaster type thing). Walk around the bench quickly vacuuming the bottom and then walk around the outside vacuuming the bench (or it looks like you have 5 wall returns/jets; they might keep the bench fairly cleared off by themselves). That's what I would do anyway, but then I live in Maryland and have no experience with Arizona dust and how painful that might be to keep vacuumed up! If that would be unworkable, I would get the IFCS in this particular case rather than put a robot in and out to clean a 6x10 area. $3K still seems steep for an IFCS considering you would need very few cleaning heads - especially since you also have a main drain according to your quote.

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

The Autopilot Digital Nano is OK. I prefer the IntelliChlor IC40 system. And the IntelliChlor will work better with your Pentair IntelliFlo pump.

With the AutoPilot you should put it on a separate timer as the primary safety system to ensure the SWG is not powered if the pump is off. Then you need to coordinate the pump schedule with the SWG timer.

While you have no automation specified you should be at least the Pentair IntelliConnect that can coordinate and control the IntelliFlo pump and IntelliChlor SWG and not need a separate timer.



The IFCS is not going to clean the bench area much better then a robot cleaner. Either way you will use your pool brush to clean off the bench and brush any dirt onto the pool floor for the cleaner to pickup.



What model 400K BTU heater?

How are you going to control your air blower and pool lights?

Thanks for all your help! I had him switch out the Autopilot Digital Nano for the IntelliChlor IC40 and it's actually $175 less. From your comment and others, I also had him add in the automation - Intellicenter i5 pool is what the new estimate says.

We also swapped out the IFCS for a robot vacuum.

400k BTU heater - Pentair, Mastertemp Model 400
IntelliFlo pump - Pentair Variable Speed

For air blower and pool lights - this should be taken care of with the new automation we added in right?

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

I would personally save the money an IFCS costs and put that saved money towards an Intellicenter automation system and a good robot cleaner (not a suction side or presure cleaner, a real robot... Maytronics or similar). In-floor cleaning is too complex and won't do the job as good as a robot. And since you mention being able to possibly use the pool as a spa also, there will be in wall spa jets to use to help blow dirt off the benches. Even if you chose an IFCS, you would still need to brush the benches - in addition to the walls - on a regular basis. A 12x8 pool with benches won't take any time at all to manually brush.

This list will provide the best and easiest pool care......

• Intelliflo pump
• Intellicenter automation w/ IC 40 SWG (will also control lights and blower, in addition to pump and SWG)
• A good robot cleaner (Maytronics or similar - you can get this on your own and save $$ over PB pricing)
• A TF-100 Pro Salt testkit
• Heater - or possible a heat pump that will both heat and cool (heat pump will take longer to heat the water to spa temps than a NG heater will).

Be sure to get exact model numbers and post them here. Someone will be along to review and will assist you in getting the most bang for your buck.

Thanks for your help! Also, I see that you're super close by in Chandler

We took your advice and removed the IFCS and added an Intellicenter automation system. Here are the changes. Can you let me know what you think about the equipment/models?

• Intelliflo pump - Pentair Variable Speed
• Intellicenter i5 Pool
• Base vacuum included - doesn't say what it is, but since it's included should I leave it or ask about a Maytronics upgrade?
• 400k BTU Heater - Pentair, Mastertemp Model 400

Thank you again!

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

Your pool looks like it will be a lovely oasis in your back yard! Good luck with your build! My thoughts on your floor cleaning situation ... Robot vacuums are great; I have one and wouldn't vacuum my pool any other way. They generally don't clean benches, though, unless there is a pretty good depth of water on top of them. You have an 8X12 pool where you have a bench all the way around - let's say it's 12" front to back, taking away a foot of floor space on each side. That leaves you 6x10 floor space to actually vacuum. That's relatively small, and I'm not sure either spending $3K on an IFCS or buying a several hundred dollar robot is worth it. For this size pool, you might consider saving money here and just using some sort of manual vacuum - maybe a battery-powered small cordless vacuum (like a Pool Blaster type thing). Walk around the bench quickly vacuuming the bottom and then walk around the outside vacuuming the bench (or it looks like you have 5 wall returns/jets; they might keep the bench fairly cleared off by themselves). That's what I would do anyway, but then I live in Maryland and have no experience with Arizona dust and how painful that might be to keep vacuumed up! If that would be unworkable, I would get the IFCS in this particular case rather than put a robot in and out to clean a 6x10 area. $3K still seems steep for an IFCS considering you would need very few cleaning heads - especially since you also have a main drain according to your quote.

Thanks so much for your help! I'll have to weigh out the pros and cons with a robot vacuum and see what makes more sense. From all the comments above, it seems like an IFCS might not make the most sense for such a small pool, and we'd be better off putting that money towards something else - like automation, etc.

While we're in Arizona, we're in a masterplanned community with houses all around so I'd think the dust problem might not be so bad hah. I guess we'll see! Thanks again for your response

 

[proavia]

Thanks for your help! Also, I see that you're super close by in Chandler

We took your advice and removed the IFCS and added an Intellicenter automation system. Here are the changes. Can you let me know what you think about the equipment/models?

• Intelliflo pump - Pentair Variable Speed
• Intellicenter i5 Pool
• Base vacuum included - doesn't say what it is, but since it's included should I leave it or ask about a Maytronics upgrade?
• 400k BTU Heater - Pentair, Mastertemp Model 400

Thank you again!

You're welcome!

Ask for model numbers on all the equipment. There are a few different Intellicenters and Intelliflo pumps. And you probably don't want one of the Intellicenter "lite" models. I thonk the Intellicenter can be had with the IC40 included. Someone more familiar with the Intellicenter and Intelliflo nuances will be by to advise. @JamesW @MyAZPool @Jimrahbe

The lights and blower are separate, but will be controlled by the automation.

Base vacuum may be okay for now. You can get a better price on a Maytronics robot elsewhere - Marina Pools in Colorado is a favorite around here and usually has the best price. You need to call for the best price though.

Many like the Raypak brand of NG heaters due to their simplicity, but the Pentair Mastertemp is good also. Any heater brand will work with the Intellicenter.

As for dust - mostly you will see it during monsoon season or if we get heavy winds. We had one such event in Chandler this monsoon season. IFCS stirred up the dust for a few days and removed about 30% of it. I finally borrowed a suction side cleaner from the neighbor to suck up all the dust in a few hours - and then backwashed the filter.

While I do have an IFCS (pool built in1999) and it works pretty well, I wouldn't put one in a new build. I need to run my VS pump at 2900+ rpm to get it to work well. With a robot, no need to run pump when using it. I do run the pump at 1100 rpm to circulate and skim. So 3-4 hours a day at high speed and the rest at low speed. The lower the rpm, the less electricity used. Besides, a robot just does a better job overall.

 

[Nikilyn]

With the size of your pool I would go with the IFC. We did owner/builder and our plumber recommended it for the benches and Baja step but we didn’t want to wait for schematics to be done or pay for it. Now I wish we did. When we get a monsoon the steps are covered in dirt and the robot doesn’t clean them. It actually takes multiple times brushing them to get them clean. I’m actually missing our IFC from our last house. As for a salt system, it’s a lifesaver. Best decision ever.

 

[Nikilyn]

You're welcome!

Ask for model numbers on all the equipment. There are a few different Intellicenters and Intelliflo pumps. And you probably don't want one of the Intellicenter "lite" models. I thonk the Intellicenter can be had with the IC40 included. Someone more familiar with the Intellicenter and Intelliflo nuances will be by to advise. @JamesW @MyAZPool @Jimrahbe

The lights and blower are separate, but will be controlled by the automation.

Base vacuum may be okay for now. You can get a better price on a Maytronics robot elsewhere - Marina Pools in Colorado is a favorite around here and usually has the best price. You need to call for the best price though.

Many like the Raypak brand of NG heaters due to their simplicity, but the Pentair Mastertemp is good also. Any heater brand will work with the Intellicenter.

As for dust - mostly you will see it during monsoon season or if we get heavy winds. We had one such event in Chandler this monsoon season. IFCS stirred up the dust for a few days and removed about 30% of it. I finally borrowed a suction side cleaner from the neighbor to suck up all the dust in a few hours - and then backwashed the filter.

While I do have an IFCS (pool built in1999) and it works pretty well, I wouldn't put one in a new build. I need to run my VS pump at 2900+ rpm to get it to work well. With a robot, no need to run pump when using it. I do run the pump at 1100 rpm to circulate and skim. So 3-4 hours a day at high speed and the rest at low speed. The lower the rpm, the less electricity used. Besides, a robot just does a better job overall.

Funny how we saw those storms differently. The robot didn’t do well after those storms this summer. I ran it over and over for 3 or 4 days trying to get our pool clean and had to brush the Baja and benches many times trying to clean it. I was wishing for my IFC from our last house. Our robot also has dead spots where it doesn’t clean and they aren’t in corners either. I‘m not super impressed with it but it’s what we’re stuck with now.

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

You're welcome!

Ask for model numbers on all the equipment. There are a few different Intellicenters and Intelliflo pumps. And you probably don't want one of the Intellicenter "lite" models. I thonk the Intellicenter can be had with the IC40 included. Someone more familiar with the Intellicenter and Intelliflo nuances will be by to advise. @JamesW @MyAZPool @Jimrahbe

The lights and blower are separate, but will be controlled by the automation.

Base vacuum may be okay for now. You can get a better price on a Maytronics robot elsewhere - Marina Pools in Colorado is a favorite around here and usually has the best price. You need to call for the best price though.

Many like the Raypak brand of NG heaters due to their simplicity, but the Pentair Mastertemp is good also. Any heater brand will work with the Intellicenter.

As for dust - mostly you will see it during monsoon season or if we get heavy winds. We had one such event in Chandler this monsoon season. IFCS stirred up the dust for a few days and removed about 30% of it. I finally borrowed a suction side cleaner from the neighbor to suck up all the dust in a few hours - and then backwashed the filter.

While I do have an IFCS (pool built in1999) and it works pretty well, I wouldn't put one in a new build. I need to run my VS pump at 2900+ rpm to get it to work well. With a robot, no need to run pump when using it. I do run the pump at 1100 rpm to circulate and skim. So 3-4 hours a day at high speed and the rest at low speed. The lower the rpm, the less electricity used. Besides, a robot just does a better job overall.

Thank you again for your help! I’ll continue to update with model numbers, etc

 

[firstpoolnewbie]

With the size of your pool I would go with the IFC. We did owner/builder and our plumber recommended it for the benches and Baja step but we didn’t want to wait for schematics to be done or pay for it. Now I wish we did. When we get a monsoon the steps are covered in dirt and the robot doesn’t clean them. It actually takes multiple times brushing them to get them clean. I’m actually missing our IFC from our last house. As for a salt system, it’s a lifesaver. Best decision ever.

Thanks for your POV! It seems like folks are having different experiences when it comes to IFCS and robots. We’ll have to re-assess and see what makes the most sense for us. Since our pool is so small, we’re leaning towards the robot.