Help Installing SWG!

[Cwiggs]

Hello TFP!

Long story short I was planning on installing the Circupool RJ60+, but the Hayward AquaRite W3AQR15 went on sale for ~$900 so I decided to buy the Hayward. Now I'm looking for the help/suggestions/tips on installing it.

Questions:
1. Right now I have an old intermatic timer that is being used as a junction box. I figure the simplest method to power the swg only when the pump is running, is to hook it up to the old timer and align the pump timer with the manual timer. Problem is, can I use the timer as a timer for the SWG and as a junction box for the pump(s)?
2. Where should I install the SWG, I was thinking right where the "Heater Out" logo is on the attached pic.
3. My heater currently doesn't work, and it's pretty old. If I can get it fixed cheap/easily, I'd like to replace it, but if I have to replace it, It'll probably be a while. Does that change where I should install the SWG?
4. My heater does not have a bypass, since I'm messing with the plumbing, should I install a bypass, if so, where?
5. Am I making a mistake installing the Hayward? I know if I want automation I should go with Pentair, but I don't want to spend that much, and don't like that Pentair isn't friendly to DIYers (warranty cut short). I was going to go with the RJ60+ (since the 60 isn't much more than the 45) because they seem more DIY friendly, and have good reviews.

I have some ideas on questions 2 and 4, but I want to see what the experts on TFP think. Attached are pics of the pluming, electrical, and the timer.

Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

Hey Cwiggs and welcome to the Dark side !!

1). Probably. I will have to defer this one to someone with a better knowledge of the amperage draw. The SWG controller does not use much. Mine is shared with the pump with no issues. Yours of course could be different so hang tight on this one.
2) and 3). SWG is always the last spot after all the equipment. The highly chlorinated water immediately after it can wreck equipment. It mixes with the return water and is safe by the time it gets to the pool. If you didn’t care about the heater you could in theory use it before the heater, but if it rusted a hole through the heater then you would care very much when you had a flood. Keep it last where it belongs.
4). Heater bypasses are nice because most heaters restrict flow substantially. No need to slow it all down If they aren’t being used. If it’s easy enough to do for you, pvc is dirt cheap. Go for it. The easiest way to do it would probably be to make an ‘H’ between the heater in and out with valves.
5). There are millions of happy Hayward customers. You will be #5,836,373. (Give or take). I have Pentair and it did good by me so I replaced it when it was time. I also like Dodges but there are millions of Chevys and Fords on the road too.

 

[Cwiggs]

4). Heater bypasses are nice because most heaters restrict flow substantially. No need to slow it all down If they aren’t being used. If it’s easy enough to do for you, pvc is dirt cheap. Go for it. The easiest way to do it would probably be to make an ‘H’ between the heater in and out with valves.

Will the bypass increase flow even if I have a VS pump that I never run on the highest setting? I've read mixed answers to this question on TFP, so I'm not sure.

Also I went outside recently and turned the timer "on", however it looks like it was already on the "on" position and hasn't been doing anything for a year, so I assume the timer portion is broken. Looks like I'll have to replace the timer if i'm going to hookup the SWG to it. Should I just replace it with another intermatic, or is there another brand that would work better?

 

[Newdude]

Will the bypass increase flow even if I have a VS pump that I never run on the highest setting? I've read mixed answers to this question on TFP, so I'm not sure

If you are running at low speed it’s probably not too beneficial if at all. If you run 1/2 or 2/3 speed (For vac or skimming for example) it probably helps a lot more. Will be interesting to get some experts thoughts on this one, it’s a very good question.

Should I just replace it with another intermatic, or is there another brand that would work better?

Many people have them so I’ll assume they work fine. I have one generic timer in my sub panel that never gets used. I run 24/7 so my two times are summertime and winter time. Hopefully some folks chime in with what works for them.

 

[mguzzy]

1) I don't see why not. I take it you are not using the timer any more since your VSP has one built in, yes? So if it still works, wire the SWG controller power to the Intermatic timer and set it to go on 10 minutes after your pump starts, and off 10 min before the VSP pump goes off. easy peasy.... I still have a single speed pump/motor... and my SWG is wired into the same Intermatic timer. They both come on at the same time.
2) yes, the SWG is the last thing before it the water returns from the pool.
3) Still put the SWG as the last device..come the time you replace the heater you will be half way there and won't have to replumb stuff yet again.
4) my heater has a built in bypass...at least I think it does.. in any case I don't have a manual bypass. I never needed one.
5) I have a Hayward and have been happy with it. I never saw the need for automation to save me from walking 20 ft to turn on the spa heater. But If I had all kinds of other bells and whistles that needed to be turned on my might reconsider. The only other features I have are the lights and waterfall.. they all turn on from switches on the side of the house. That's all the automation I really need. your needs may be different.
You should check out the wiki articles on the different SWGs its very educational:

Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Cwiggs]

I ended up returning the hayward. A friend of mine has the same one and told me he had nothing but trouble with it and recommended paying the extra $ for the Circupool RJ45+ (or maybe even the 60+). He mentioned the RJ45+ has titanium plates in the salt cell that makes it last much longer.

I think I'm going to wait a little bit to see if the Circupool RJ45 or 60 goes on sale and if it does buy it then, anyone know if they ever go on sale?

 

[Seanhan13]

Take a look at the Circupool universal 40, I replaced my 8 year old RJ60 with it. Nice unit looks simular to the Hayward. Man does this thing make chlorine, I had to turn it way down. And I got it for 799.00

 

[mguzzy]

You know you can get the RJ45 and upgrade to the RJ60 for 10 bux more at discountsaltpool.com.. its a very popular upgrade path around here.

 

[Cwiggs]

I know this is an old thread now but since summer is upon us I finally ordered the RJ60+.

I also found out the timer is broken so I'll be replacing that and installing the RJ60+ at the same time.

Wish me luck!

 

[mguzzy]

You can resurrect your own thread whenever you want!...Good luck!

 

[Cwiggs]

Got the salt cell installed and some plywood (sealed) installed to mount the control module too.


Next I need to figure out how much salt to put in and how to get the CYA up. I have a bunch of Trichlor tabs that I thought about using to raise the CYA but I think I'd need too many and I'm not sure how long that will take. If the Trichlor tabs won't work I'll just pick up some stabilizer from the pool store.

 

[mknauss]

Do you have a means to test the salt level you currently have? You need that number, then put the data in Poolmath, then add 2/3rds of the salt recommended, brush and let circulate a day, test the salt level again, then add the balance to get to your goal.

CYA - your Poolmath logs show 30 ppm. I would add 20 ppm worth first using the sock method. Let that dissolve and test a couple days later. Then add the balance to 70-80 ppm.

 

[Cwiggs]

Do you have a means to test the salt level you currently have? You need that number, then put the data in Poolmath, then add 2/3rds of the salt recommended, brush and let circulate a day, test the salt level again, then add the balance to get to your goal.

CYA - your Poolmath logs show 30 ppm. I would add 20 ppm worth first using the sock method. Let that dissolve and test a couple days later. Then add the balance to 70-80 ppm.

I forgot to pick up salt test strips and I couldn't find any at the any of the non-pool stores (walmart, home depot, etc) so I'll have to pick some up from a pool store, or have them test the water. I know usually it's not recommended to trust the tests from the pool store so I'll probably just pickup some test strips.

10-4 on adding 20ppm of CYA.

Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Salt test strips, are, well, test strips. Get a K1766 test kit. K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

 

[Cwiggs]

K-1766 has been ordered. I put some CYA in to get the CYA to about 50ppm. I'll check the CYA in about 24 hours.

The SWG says the salinity is 3600 but I'm not sure how accurate that is, we'll see when the k-1766 kit arrives.

 

[Cwiggs]

CYA has all been dissolved after I massaged the sock for about 20 mins. I tested the CYA and it's at 50ppm now. I have some trichlor tabs floating that I'm hoping will bring it up to 60ppm and I still have about 2 lbs of 100% CYA I can throw in later as well.

I also checked the SWCG again and it says "salinity 3600" but I think that is just saying what it should be. When I clicked the "menu" button a few times there is a "current salinity" value, and it seems to go up and down wildly. So tldr, gotta wait for the k-1766 and test with that.

Also, I'm always amazed at how fast tftestkits.net ships product; I ordered the k-1766 yesterday and within a few hours I got a shipped confirmation.

 

[Newdude]

CYA has all been dissolved after I massaged the sock for about 20 mins. I tested the CYA and it's at 50ppm now

It takes some time, sometimes days to fully disperse. Even longer if some gets trapped in the filter. Let it be and test again in a few days.

value, and it seems to go up and down wildly. So tldr, gotta wait for the k-1766 and test with that.

Also, I'm always amazed at how fast tftestkits.net ships product; I ordered the k-1766 yesterday and within a few hours I got a shipped confirmation

They’re great, right ? Personally I won’t even look for better prices on comps elsewhere. One purchase back when and I was sold. In the meantime I have seen the same speedy care jump in to correct any issues that arise (this last year is a perfect example of things arising, even beyond their control).

 

[Cwiggs]

Alright I got the k-1766 test kit yesterday, and tested the water and the salt was at 2600ppm. I've been slowly putting in bags of salt, brushing, etc to get the salt around 3500ppm like the circupool manual says.

I also tested the CYA again and it's at 50ppm. I dissolved the rest of the CYA this morning, should bring my CYA to between 60-70. I'm out of CYA, but I have some trichlor tablets that I bought before I knew about TFP that I'll use to slowly increase the CYA to 80ppm.

Sound like a good plan?

 

[mknauss]

Sound like a good plan?

 

[Cwiggs]

semi un-related but I've always been curious how off the pool stores are when they measure your water, so I figure I'd check their accuracy.

I went to the pool store on Mar 28th and they said my salt content was 1100ppm, they recommended 5 40lb bags of salt. I've never put salt in the pool and I drained it about a year ago so I figured 5 bags of salt wasn't going to put me at 3500. So I put 5 bags (200lbs) of salt in.

When I got my k-1766 I tested the water and it came back with 2600 ppm. According to the app, 200lbs of salt should increase my salt by 1138, so 1100+1138=2238. The pool store was off by 363ppm, Or about a bag and a half of salt, not bad.

They did say my "hardness" was 1700ppm, when I know my calcium is around 600ppm. They also said 1700ppm for hardness wasn't too bad and they said the FC was 3 when it was closer to 7.