First timer advice/thoughts for AGP

[Texas Splash]

Pools need chlorine everyday in the summer, and we hope to not lose any more than 4 ppm in a 24 hr period. So if you increased the FC to 8 ppm yesterday and never added more chlorine, it could have naturally dropped to about 4 ppm. Then you found it at 3.2 ppm the next day. Seems fairly possible. But also consider your testing. You said you added enough chlorine to get the FC to 8, but did you verify it? Sometimes that is necessary because the chlorine/bleach is weak or your measurements were not quite correct. So if the FC never made it to 8, you may not have lost so much FC.

Remember that if you ever have a concern about how much chlorine you are losing, do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test first. If you do verify the FC just before bed and find that the FC dropped more than 1 ppm overnight, then you know there is an algae problem. Also remember the pump needs to be on mixing water before you grab any water samples. The pool water needs to be mixed well.

As for feeding the pool, it needs chlorine everyday in the summer. No need to go over the recommended range as that will just become wasteful. It doesn't matter if you add the chlorine in the morning or night, but I would recommend being consistent.

Lastly, you can do your FC testing as follows:
Use a 10 ml water sample size with ONE generous/heaping scoop of powder. Mix and add drops until clear and divide the count in half. Example - 20 drops equals an FC of 10.

 

[Mdragger88]

All the people who take water to the store once a week, their FC must be low most of the time unless they add a regular amount all the time.

This is often true, or they add a bunch of chlorine via powdered “shock” on the weekend & hope it makes it to the next weekend whilst using pucks daily - meanwhile the cya continues to rise but they maintain the same low fc level & boom algae every time there’s any environmental change like higher bather load, rain, high uv etc. because they are always just teetering on the edge. The weekly “shock” method works until it doesn’t. People show up here every day because it didn’t & they have drained their wallet trying to fix it to no avail.

The 2-4 ppm/day loss is an average across the board, generally lower in the shoulder seasons & obviously highest in the dog days of summer.
Daily consumption is affected by bather loads, uv, temp etc. This is why we suggest testing every day for a while, so u can see how each of these variables affect your pool. Also if there’s a problem, like your dose didn’t get u where u wanted to go, or your demand increased, you know about it quickly- not next week after things have been out of hand for who knows how long.
Dosing a scootch higher than the high target is fine but going really high (up to slam level) does waste some chlorine to the sun As Tex mentioned, So keep that in mind & reserve doing so for when u know u won’t be able to check the pool for several days. The ph test is inaccurate at fc levels above 10ppm so maintaining fc above that all the time can become problematic as well since maintaining ph is important.
It is safe to swim w/ fc levels anywhere between minimum & slam level for your cya so long as u can see the bottom of the pool for swimmer safety.
For instance, i have an undersized swg so i must supplement with liquid chlorine, to prevent having to add small amounts daily I raise to 10-11ppm & repeat when it falls to 7ppm so I never broach min for my cya of 80.
In the heat of the summer this can be every 2-3 days, as the weather turns cooler & uv lessens it may be a week or more. I always dose to 10ppm before & after a party, between the sunscreened bodies, hair conditioner & rambunctious/sweaty kids & adults fc lowers quickly.

 

[raysaint]

Good to know. How long after adding chlorine can I test to verify I reached my target? Once I add chemical, I turn my pump to high to get it circ quicker.

And if I'm reaching my target, then based on my average FC loss per day, can I just add about the same amount of chlorine each day, based on what pool math says I should add. Example; I reach my target of 8 FC, next morning it's 4, and that seems consistent most days, so I add chlorine each day to go from 4 to 8, based on pool math quantity.

 

[Texas Splash]

How long after adding chlorine can I test to verify I reached my target?

In your pool about 30 min should be good.

then based on my average FC loss per day, can I just add about the same amount of chlorine each day, based on what pool math says I should add.

Correct. In my pool as an example, if my FC tested at 5 and I added 3 ppm of chlorine at let's say 5:00 pm, then 24 hrs later at 5 pm I expected my FC to be back down to about 5 ppm. You start to get into a rhythm and replenish what you lost.

 

[raysaint]

So knowing I lose some FC everyday, let's say 3 ppm, could I not set my target 2 or 3 ppm higher in pool math, to allow for that loss each day.
Example, this morning my FC was 4.8. I set the target at 8, pool math said add 1360 ml chlorine. Why not set target at 10, to allow for my daily loss?
If I add the 1360, I expect Fc to be back down to about 5 tomorrow, which is too low. Should I not be aiming for my low point to be higher?

 

[Texas Splash]

Could I not set my target 2 or 3 ppm higher in pool math, to allow for that loss each day? Why not set target at 10, to allow for my daily loss?

You can. The ranges in the FC/CYA Levels are designed to ensure the FC-to-CYA ratios compliment each other. Maximize sanitation without waste. Can you go over the recommended range - yes. Remember that just like maintaining an elevated FC level during a SLAM, the FC is more likely to fall a bit quicker when you are above that ideal ratio because there are more chlorine molecules than stabilizer to adhere to, so the FC falls faster. That's my simple way of explaining it. So let's say an ideal FC range is 5-7 with a minimum of 3. To your point, I would not want to start my 24 hr period only adjusting the FC to 5 and expect it to remain above 3 for 24 hrs in the summer. I would target an FC of at least 7, perhaps even 8-9, to ensure I don't fall below my ideal range.

 

[raysaint]

I need vacuum basics. I know to get all air out of hose, then connect hose to vac plate. Does hose have to go thru skimmer opening or can it go over the pool top rail? Then remove the skimmer basket? Then put vac plate in snug where basket was.
And the pump that creates the suction? With no water draining into the pump, it sucks air, and hence, the vacuum suction?

 

[Mdragger88]

Theres not supposed to be any air- the pump will be sucking water & debris into the filter just like the skimmer does unless u are vacuuming to waste in which case the water will come out of the waste port (where it comes out when u backwash)
Any Air in the line will make the pump cavitate.
Most vac plates have a 90 degree connector so u can run the hose through the skimmer opening in the pool wall more easily. You may need to remove the weir door to accomplish this. I always had to turn my pump off when using the vac plate then have someone else turn it back on for me - it was a big pain.
There are several you tube videos on how to do it.

 

[Mdragger88]

This guy is doing it without a 90 degree fitting on the plate & going over the rail if that’s what u have going on

 

[raysaint]

Good video for me. I have that type of vac plate. He has a decent weir door that moves without falling out, unlike mine which falls out if I touch it or even when we swim, from the extra water flow into the skimmer. The little posts at the bottom of the door suck. And when it falls out, if I don't notice, the pump starts making noise (losing water?), and the return jet increases water flow. Happened yesterday while swimming, I heard the return jet making blasts of water, and the pump making suck noise. Anything I can do?

 

[Mdragger88]

My weir door doesn’t go backwards “into the pool” there are tabs to prevent it from doing so. Be sure there’s nothing in the grooves/holes that are at the bottom to prevent it from fitting properly & that the foam is in place.
The door should close off the skimmer opening to prevent debris from inside the skimmer from returning to the pool when the pool pump is off (but not flip over into the pool) & lay down (allowing skim action) when the pump is running. If it’s getting stuck in either direction something is wrong. Maybe missing the spring?
If the water level is too low in the pool the weir door will be sucked down & the pump will suck air. The water level should be at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the way up the skimmer opening - less sucks air or creates a vortex, more reduces effective skimming

 

[raysaint]

My weir door doesn't go backwards either, it lays on a 45 degree angle as it should, and lifts to 90 degrees as it should. It just falls out of the post holes easily, swimming shouldn't knock it out of it's post holders. The springs seem OK. Posts should be longer IMO. It only goes into the pool if it falls out and then lays flat and floats out.
It's a cheap skimmer probably.

 

[phonedave]

The posts on a weir door tend to loose their springiness after a while, as they are just plastic, and are sitting in the sun and chlorine all their lives. There is also supposed to be a float in the door to keep it upright when the filter is not running (so nothing in the skimmer basked floats back into the pool). The float is just a small piece of foam, which can get waterlogged, shrink, or just disappear. You can get a new door at a pool store, they are pretty standard. Just bring your old one to match it up.

It seems counterintuitive, but not having the weir door in place can cause your pump to suck air. Without the door in place the water can circulate around the perimeter of the skimmer basket and form a whirlpool / vortex that will actually reach down into the intake pipe, and introduce air. The same thing can happen with the skimmer basket missing. The door and basket help create turbulence that prevents the formation of the vortex.

Using the vac plate allows you to keep the basket in the skimmer. That way, if you have a lot of large debris to vacuum up, like leaves, they fill the skimmer basket instead of the pump basket. The skimmer basket is easier to clean. It also lets you use a skimmer sock if you are vacuuming up a lot of fine particles.

I have found that my vac hose has started to leak around the cuff where the hose attaches to the end. If it is above the waterline (which happens sometimes when my water level is on the lower side of normal) it will suck air. I take my simmer basket out, and just jam the hose end into the bottom of my skimmer now. It solves that problem.

Maybe it is obvious, but you do know you have to fill the vac hose with water first, correct? Either by holding it up against the running return, or by shoving it vertically into the water in sections.

 

[raysaint]

Everything you said makes sense and is what happens once in a while. My door has the foam, and when it falls out of it's post holes, it goes flat, water rushes in and the vortex happens. I then put it back in. It has to be on that 45 degree angle, I know that now.
And yes, I watched videos that show 2 ways to prime the hose, put it in front of the return or feed it hand over hand until water comes out the end.
Gently lifting the door up to 90 degrees, to take skimmer basket out, that's when it usually falls out, seems like the water force coming into the skimmer is too much for it.
So the weir door should be upright when vacuuming; what if it isn't, the vortex shouldn't happen if the vac plate is over the skimmer basket. Or is my logic/technique wrong.

 

[Mdragger88]

If it falls over after u have the vac connected it’s fine-
You may wanna replace the weir door- they’re usually pretty cheap. I like to have a spare anyway

 

[phonedave]

Everything you said makes sense and is what happens once in a while. My door has the foam, and when it falls out of it's post holes, it goes flat, water rushes in and the vortex happens. I then put it back in. It has to be on that 45 degree angle, I know that now.
And yes, I watched videos that show 2 ways to prime the hose, put it in front of the return or feed it hand over hand until water comes out the end.
Gently lifting the door up to 90 degrees, to take skimmer basket out, that's when it usually falls out, seems like the water force coming into the skimmer is too much for it.
So the weir door should be upright when vacuuming; what if it isn't, the vortex shouldn't happen if the vac plate is over the skimmer basket. Or is my logic/technique wrong.

If I am using the vac plate with the 90 degree elbow, I take out my weir door.

If I am just sticking the hose in the bottom of the skimmer, I leave the door in.

 

[raysaint]

Vacuum HELP. Purged the air out of the hose with the return jet. Turned pump off. Put hose & vac plate over pool top rail and into skimmer basket, turned pump on to high, seemed to start vacuuming. But then hose was making a bit of sound, water started really shooting out of the return jet (which wasn't happening at first), and then nothing was vacuuming. I turned the pump to low, but still nothing vacuumed.
Did lifting the hose/vac plate in the air do something, when I put it over the pool rail and into the skimmer? The vac plate seemed secured on top of the basket.
Did pump lose prime? After I disconnected the vacuum, turned pump on and it started to fill with water, and had bubbles. Should I have turned the shutoff valve at the skimmer to prevent water flowing back into the pool from the pump?
Also seemed like when I turned the pump back on after unhooking the vac, bit of water leaked down onto the patio stones, not sure from where. Could have just been spilled from me, or might have that come from the plumbing from skimmer to pump, does vacuum cause extra pressure on the pump?
Or what? Nothing is ever easy for me.
UPDATE: just checked the pump, been running for 1/2 hour & lots of bubbles, it's full, but bubbles. I read about suction side leaks (pool is new, how could that be), so I checked the big screw-on couplers for the shutoff valves, and I can turn them (right to left), so are they tight enough? I turned them a bit but the pipe underneath going to the pump turns also, so may need to use tools to hold and turn, if that could be the problem. Or does tightening them just affect the ball valve inside?
Pic of my setup. Enlarge for better view.

 

[Mdragger88]

Sounds like u got air lock.
If u got too much air in the system while trying to hook up the vac be sure to turn everything off & “burp”the pump basket lid (crack it until the basket fills with water then retighten).
Above ground pools are notorious for suction side leaks in various places.
I hated my vac plate - never sealed good with the skimmer basket installed so I always just removed the weir door & basket, had the pump running, got in the pool (cuz im short ) filled the hose & vac head, kept my hand over the end of the hose whilst putting it through the skimmer opening & directly into the skimmer pipe to prevent air intrusion. I don’t recommend this if there’s large debris because it can starve your pump when caught in the pump basket.
I only used the pump to manually vac my pool when absolutely necessary because it was such a pain.
Usually I would just siphon vac (by throwing the hose over the side of the pool) & try to be quick with it as to not waste too much water.
I used my intex automatic pool cleaner (pressure side) instead 99% of the time & now the dolphin. I haven’t manually vacuumed in 3 seasons.

 

[raysaint]

So how do I get rid of the big pump bubbles? return jet is fine, no bubbles.
And based on my steps above, did I do it right to hook up the vacuum? Should I have closed the shutoff valve at the skimmer after turning pump off? Should I put my hand over the hole in the vac plate while inserting into the skimmer? or try the vac hose in thru the skimmer to avoid raising it up over the pool top rail?
OMG, this can't be this problematic, everyone does it.
Please read my previous post to get the whole picture.

Update: I tried to reprime now. Turned off pump, closed shutoff valve from skimmer, opened filter air relief, opened top of pump, water gushing out, so opened filter drain, water drained, cleaned pump basket, filled pump with water, put top back on, closed filter/return shutoff valve, started pump, waited until steady stream coming out of air relief, opened shutoff for filter/return.
Pump had big bubbles, gave it an hour, still big bubbles. Since I've had the pool I know there are times I look into pump and it's purring with no bubbles.
OMG I am so p/o'ed, this should be a simple fix!

 

[raysaint]

My apology for the p/o term, my frustration got the better of me. With no experience and worry something bad will happen to my new equipment, i felt helpless. It will never happen again, please don't give up on me. You all have been so great.