I have it behind a half block wall area next to pool pump. Treed area, with additional sail cloth shading and equipment is covered with foil insulator covers. I'm sure the LC is degrading but I just adjust the run time if I see FC drifting higher or lower. I actually only load enough LC to last 3 weeks based on whatever the current run time is. It peaks in July or August with a run time of 90 minutes.
Converting to Rola-Chem for liquid chlorine dispensing
- Thread starter TXpoolDIYguy
- Start date
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,713
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
In no particular order:
- Storing a large quantity of a hazardous chemical (chlorine) in a container in your yard creates some potential safety concerns. Can your kids get at it? Pets? Wild animals? Can invited, or uninvited, "guests" get at it? It's crazy what you can get sued for these days. And even crazier what kids at certain ages will get into. One of mine drank some sort of cleaning solution right out of a bathroom cabinet (NOT MINE, someone else's home). How much does your chlorine container look like a big ol' jug of lemonade!? Animal damage? Earthquakes? Material failure? All unlikely, of course, but each potential adds up.
- @reggiehammond has already pointed out the problem of large quantities of chlorine degrading before you can use them up.
- You gotta buy it and lug it and store it and pour it. I like your Walmart delivery solution. But there's still lugging and handling to do even on your own property. Plus, you never know how much that chlorine has degraded before it even gets to your door step. You've got a solution for the degrading, but it's still a loss in terms of cost, no matter how you compensate for it.
- Cleaning out and repairing/maintaining an LC dispensing system is another nasty pool chore that can't be ignored.
- I personally would never trust the dispensing of a hazardous chemical to an off-the-shelf WiFi device. Their quality and reliability is one thing. And WiFi sucks for mission-critical applications. It can fail to fire. It can fire on it's own. It can report status incorrectly. Etc. Not for me. Now, you recognized this problem and addressed it with your double-checking algorithms. Which is great. But how robust is that redundancy? I'm very familiar with this MO. I had to build one for my irrigation control system, which relies on my home automation software and gizmos. NOT WiFi, but I find I still cannot trust them 100%. So my system, like yours, double checks to see if my irrigation valves are on when they are supposed to be, and more importantly OFF when they're supposed to be (I get alerted by email and text if there is any sort of failure). But overwatering a section of my garden is one thing: dumping 15 gallons of chlorine into a pool is quite another. Now if your pool is big enough, and you resist the temptation to fill your tank full, then the potential danger is less. But not eliminated. This post above describes worst case scenario in this regard.
I mean, I've got a tank of muriatic acid in my yard! So each of us weighs the risks, protects against them as best as we can, and then rolls the dice! But I use a Pentair pool automation controller for my system, which is hardwired. It's not 100% immune from some or all of the problems I've described, but it's age-old, tried-n-true tech that has been around for decades, with a track record of safety. The system has several redundant safeties built-in. Plus, my tank never has more than about a gallon and a half of acid in it. Even if a catastrophic failure occurred, and the system dumped the entire tank into my pool, the day I filled the tank, it would cause no harm to swimmers or the pool. Just a spike in the pH. That I'm willing to trust more than I would the latest WiFi gizmo from China that has existed for only a few months, strapped to 15 gallons of chlorine! You have to decide for yourself your own level of risk tolerance.
Sidebar: an SWG solves for all of the above. You do have to monitor it, and adjust it, but not any more than you're doing for your LC. After a season or two, it's all pretty simple. So much more convenient, so much safer. And where else can you get chlorine made fresh every five minutes pumped into your pool without you having to touch it!
- The biggest issue I see in your system is the flow detection (lack of). If I understood correctly, you're relying entirely on programming and timers and WiFi to prevent chlorine dispensing while the pump is off. IMO, this is not safe enough, no matter what backup programming you've done. You HAVE to have a flow switch, that allows dispensing ONLY when water is actually moving through the plumbing. (This is true for SWGs, too!) It's more than an off chance that the timer could fail, or get out of sync. Or the WiFi device somehow fires when the pump is off. Or that the pump is not actually pumping even when there is power to it (pump failure). Only a physical flow switch can protect you and your pool from all of these possibilities. It's a relatively simple matter to incorporate a flow switch, which you should do asap (IMO).
- For the above, and other reasons, an LC dispensing system is not better than an SWG system. It's unfortunate that a pool guy, ignorant to that fact, persuaded you otherwise. It's pretty common, unfortunately. They just don't know any better. Now the one disadvantage of a SWG, is that in many climates they won't produce chlorine in the winter. That's really the only advantage LC dispensing has over SWG. But you hardly need chlorine in the winter, and I dispense LC manually about a dozen times (once a week) each year to solve for that.
- The inconveniences of LC dispensing aside, by no stretch is the cost of an LC system comparable to a SWG. It used to be pretty close, but not anymore. LC dispensing is just more expensive now, not even counting the inconvenience factor. The money you claim you're saving (and I don't doubt it) is due to the TFP method, not your LC dispenser. Your savings would only increase with a SWG (and your chore list would reduce).
So I hope that wasn't too rough. As I said, you seem to be aware of most of these issues, which is great, that's half the battle. As long as you take seriously the caution about the flow switch, you're probably fine. I'll just add this, 'cause us SWG users can't resist, if and when you ever switch to SWG, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't do so sooner.
- Storing a large quantity of a hazardous chemical (chlorine) in a container in your yard creates some potential safety concerns. Can your kids get at it? Pets? Wild animals? Can invited, or uninvited, "guests" get at it? It's crazy what you can get sued for these days. And even crazier what kids at certain ages will get into. One of mine drank some sort of cleaning solution right out of a bathroom cabinet (NOT MINE, someone else's home). How much does your chlorine container look like a big ol' jug of lemonade!? Animal damage? Earthquakes? Material failure? All unlikely, of course, but each potential adds up.
- @reggiehammond has already pointed out the problem of large quantities of chlorine degrading before you can use them up.
- You gotta buy it and lug it and store it and pour it. I like your Walmart delivery solution. But there's still lugging and handling to do even on your own property. Plus, you never know how much that chlorine has degraded before it even gets to your door step. You've got a solution for the degrading, but it's still a loss in terms of cost, no matter how you compensate for it.
- Cleaning out and repairing/maintaining an LC dispensing system is another nasty pool chore that can't be ignored.
- I personally would never trust the dispensing of a hazardous chemical to an off-the-shelf WiFi device. Their quality and reliability is one thing. And WiFi sucks for mission-critical applications. It can fail to fire. It can fire on it's own. It can report status incorrectly. Etc. Not for me. Now, you recognized this problem and addressed it with your double-checking algorithms. Which is great. But how robust is that redundancy? I'm very familiar with this MO. I had to build one for my irrigation control system, which relies on my home automation software and gizmos. NOT WiFi, but I find I still cannot trust them 100%. So my system, like yours, double checks to see if my irrigation valves are on when they are supposed to be, and more importantly OFF when they're supposed to be (I get alerted by email and text if there is any sort of failure). But overwatering a section of my garden is one thing: dumping 15 gallons of chlorine into a pool is quite another. Now if your pool is big enough, and you resist the temptation to fill your tank full, then the potential danger is less. But not eliminated. This post above describes worst case scenario in this regard.
I mean, I've got a tank of muriatic acid in my yard! So each of us weighs the risks, protects against them as best as we can, and then rolls the dice! But I use a Pentair pool automation controller for my system, which is hardwired. It's not 100% immune from some or all of the problems I've described, but it's age-old, tried-n-true tech that has been around for decades, with a track record of safety. The system has several redundant safeties built-in. Plus, my tank never has more than about a gallon and a half of acid in it. Even if a catastrophic failure occurred, and the system dumped the entire tank into my pool, the day I filled the tank, it would cause no harm to swimmers or the pool. Just a spike in the pH. That I'm willing to trust more than I would the latest WiFi gizmo from China that has existed for only a few months, strapped to 15 gallons of chlorine! You have to decide for yourself your own level of risk tolerance.
Sidebar: an SWG solves for all of the above. You do have to monitor it, and adjust it, but not any more than you're doing for your LC. After a season or two, it's all pretty simple. So much more convenient, so much safer. And where else can you get chlorine made fresh every five minutes pumped into your pool without you having to touch it!
- The biggest issue I see in your system is the flow detection (lack of). If I understood correctly, you're relying entirely on programming and timers and WiFi to prevent chlorine dispensing while the pump is off. IMO, this is not safe enough, no matter what backup programming you've done. You HAVE to have a flow switch, that allows dispensing ONLY when water is actually moving through the plumbing. (This is true for SWGs, too!) It's more than an off chance that the timer could fail, or get out of sync. Or the WiFi device somehow fires when the pump is off. Or that the pump is not actually pumping even when there is power to it (pump failure). Only a physical flow switch can protect you and your pool from all of these possibilities. It's a relatively simple matter to incorporate a flow switch, which you should do asap (IMO).
- For the above, and other reasons, an LC dispensing system is not better than an SWG system. It's unfortunate that a pool guy, ignorant to that fact, persuaded you otherwise. It's pretty common, unfortunately. They just don't know any better. Now the one disadvantage of a SWG, is that in many climates they won't produce chlorine in the winter. That's really the only advantage LC dispensing has over SWG. But you hardly need chlorine in the winter, and I dispense LC manually about a dozen times (once a week) each year to solve for that.
- The inconveniences of LC dispensing aside, by no stretch is the cost of an LC system comparable to a SWG. It used to be pretty close, but not anymore. LC dispensing is just more expensive now, not even counting the inconvenience factor. The money you claim you're saving (and I don't doubt it) is due to the TFP method, not your LC dispenser. Your savings would only increase with a SWG (and your chore list would reduce).
So I hope that wasn't too rough. As I said, you seem to be aware of most of these issues, which is great, that's half the battle. As long as you take seriously the caution about the flow switch, you're probably fine. I'll just add this, 'cause us SWG users can't resist, if and when you ever switch to SWG, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't do so sooner.
Last edited:
Thanks very much for the summary. I did take a quick peek at the Circupool. My pool plumbing will need some non-trivial modification as currently there is no run long enough to fit it, and the available space is tight. I'm sure a good pool plumber will be able to figure it out though. (My DIY skills do not include pool plumbing or electrical boxes.) I continue to think that the time to consider it will be when I replace my VSP. I'll look into the flow switch. Found a good example that AllenA posted a few years ago and the flow switch is still available.
I promise you you're over-complicating 'pool plumbing'. It's a very straight forward process and everything is available on YT and here to figure out what you don't know.
What I meant by lack of plumbing skills is actually cutting and gluing the pipes. I did watch some YT plumbing videos when I wanted to replace my backwash hose with a PVC pipe, but there were no worries there if it leaks a bit, and it only had to be glued on one end. No way would I consider messing with my intricate high pressure supply and return lines. I would only end up having to hire someone to clean up my mess, so better to just hire a plumber in the first place. I may post here before hiring the plumber for some suggested plumbing arrangements. Not expecting to do more on SWG this year.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,713
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
PVC work, even in pool plumbing, is the kind of job that once completed you look back and think "Well, that was easy, what was I so worried about?!"
But there's nothing wrong with turning to a pro. If nothing else, if you choose a good one, they'll stand behind their work if anything goes wrong.
Now pool electrical is a different beast, where mistakes can cause serious harm (or worse). The trick there is to find an electrician that specializes in pool electrical. There are some things to know that even seasoned electricians might not know how to do properly/safely.