Melbourne is currently dealing with an increased number of Cryptosporidium outbreaks in public pools, requiring them to close for "Hyper-Chlorination":



What does ""Hyper-Chlorination" in the Victorian regulations mean?

The recommended incident response in Victoria is described here (Appendix 6):


The steps are:

No CYA used (CYA not allowed for public indoor pools in Victoria):
1) Adjust pH to 7.5 or lower
2) "Hyper-Chlorinate" to achieve an FC contact time (CT) of 15300 ppm x min, e.g. 13 hours @ FC 20ppm or 26 hours @ FC 10ppm

CYA used (up to 100ppm allowed in public outdoor pools in Victoria):
1) Reduce CYA to 15ppm or lower
2) Adjust pH to 7.5 or lower
3) "Hyper-Chlorinate" to achieve an FC contact time (CT) of 31500 ppm x min, e.g. 28 hours @ FC 20ppm

The FC-CT of 15300 is a commonly found value for crypto for a kill target of 99.9%, so far so good. They added a factor of 2 when CYA up to 15ppm is used. Let's see if that makes sense.

As we all know, it is actually the HOCl-CT that matters, and not the FC-CT. Assuming that the FC-CT of 15300 ppm x min was derived at pH 7.5 without CYA where 50% of the FC is HOCl, then this would be equivalent to an HOCl-CT of 7650 ppm x min, which is our benchmark to compare with the CYA-scenario.

At CYA 15 ppm, the regulation tells us to use the 31500 FC-CT value.

Let's assume first that we want to "hyper-chlorinate" at FC 10 ppm, which would yield (calculated with chem geek's sheet) 0.75ppm of HOCl (or 7.5% of the FC). This would be roughly the HOCl concentration at TFP's mustard algae SLAM level. This means that the FC-CT of 31500 yields an HOCl-CT of only about 2350. This will actually only kill about 88% of the crypto population, rather than 99.9% (2348 / ln(1-0.88) x ln(1.0.999) = 7656).

When "Hyper-chlorinating"with CYA 15ppm at FC 20ppm (which is the example they give in above guidelines) we'd have 3.5ppm of HOCl (or 17.5% of the FC). This is nearly 5 times of our mustard algae SLAM level - note that at these extreme FC/CYA ratios, the HOCl concentration is no longer proportional to the FC/CYA ratio). This gives us an HOCl-CT of about 5500 ppm x min, killing about 99.3% of the crypto population (5500 / ln(1-0.993) x ln(1.0.999) = 7657), which is getting closer to the intended 99.9%.

I'd say their simplified approach of just doubling the FC-CT time to account for CYA seems to do the trick. The challenge would be to maintain FC at 20ppm for 28 hours in an outdoor pool with only 15ppm of CYA.

Trying to wrap my head around all of this.

I have an 11,000 gallon Royal pool (new to me) and currently it has just a skimmer with about a 60' run back to the 1.25 HP pump in 1.5" PVC into a Hayward Proseries S-244T.

I'm reading poolpartstogo and it is confusing me on the size of the pump I should get.

Currently drawing almost 12 amps, so 1.44 kw at .12 cents a kw so costing me about 17.3 cents an hour.

I KNOW going variable will save me money, but budget is tight right now, so was wanting to run the numbers and see what the ROI would be and probably could sell it to the wife if the math maths.

I’ve already learned so much from this group and I’m so happy to have found you at the very beginning of my pool-care learning adventure. I love my PB but because of this site I knew better than to continue using the Clorox Extra Blue tabs he left me after startup.

I’m going to keep the pool open through winter and with my water temps in the 50s (F) I’ve been relying on liquid chlorine for sanitation (2-4 ppm). I’ll fire up the SWCG next spring when the water warms up. I was thinking I’d wait until then to add the salt and CYA (which I already have). Does this sound like a good plan? I’ve read that CYA reduces the harshness of chlorine but my current levels haven’t bothered us.

Thanks for the knowledge you’ve already bestowed upon me and I’m looking forward to learning more.

Good morning,
After 4 years I decided to drain the pool before the Summer start in AZ. This is my first time draining the pool. It has been empty for 3-4 days and I am ready to fill it up.
I found some old threads about this topic but some of the recommendations were confusing to me.
Any recommendations before I start filling up the pool?
Should I measure all my levels while the pool is filling up lets say at 1/3?
I have some liquid chlorine and muriatic acid but will need to buy everything else from Leslie's if needed.
Thanks

Hello TFP members,

First of all, I will completely embrace my ignorance when it comes to pools! Now that we have that outta the way... This will be our first pool. Although I am a DIYer, I have to admit to having some anxiety on this project. I've never put up a pool before! My 1st question and biggest concern, (among many), is what would be the simplest/ideal method for leveling ground for a rectangular pool such as mine? How large of an area do I need to prep for my particular pool? I was shooting for 14x26. Most of the videos/instruction I have found have been for a round pool. I guess same basic methods apply. I intended to use stakes/string/line level. I plan to use Foam sheets instead of traditional sand. I planned to start with level ground, add foam sheeting w/seams gorilla taped, tarp, and then pool. Do I need anything else? I intend to keep this pool up year round and winterize like a standard Above Ground pool.

Thanks in advance for any help for this poor pool Newbie!

Well Amazon just delivered it.

It came in a box, in box, in a box. Got the Russian dolls unpacked and here it is.

If you didn't see the email, refills for the TF-Series and Taylor K-2006 test kits are on sale now from 1-31 March 2024. 20% off! It also includes salt kit refills! Go check it out.

So easy! Post ONE pic related to the theme title above. I bet you have a good pic saved somewhere.

See the contest rules below.
Here are examples of previous winners. It's easy! What have you got to lose? You might receive a $50 discount code from TFtestkits.net.

I thought it would be beneficial for others to hear from someone that was not brand new to TFP and had "some" knowledge of pool chemistry.

The pool industry really does a good job at making you believe things that are not true and that resulted in my stubbornness to accept the ways of TFP/

Keeping Chlorine levels High - Understanding that I had to boost my chorine to compensate for CYA took a while for me to accept.

TA - I thought that keeping TA between 80-120 was ideal. So I tried to keep it at 100. This required me to constantly add baking soda. Knowing now that its OK to keep at 60 (where it settled at), I haven't added any baking Soda .

PH - This is a tough one to accept. Logically you think anything above 7 (neutral) can lead to scale. 7.8 is the top end so I always tried to keep it around 7.5 or so. This required me to constantly add acid. Now that I keep it at 7.8, I barely add acid anymore. Pool seemed to settle in around 7.8. I don't quite understand it and would be lying if I didn't worry that scale may form. But I am adhering to the process.

SLAM - You have to do this exactly. That means buying the test kids and following all the process without omitting anything.

Hello friends! It's been about 4 years since I've used this site. TFP was such a blessing to me when we lived back in MD. We had a wonderful 18 x 36 pool there for a couple years and still cherish the memories of spending all day outside swimming. We're now in AZ and finally ready to build our own pool.

I have no experience doing a pool build (our last one came with the house and we had to do a simple liner switch out), but given the rising costs, I'm totally okay with acting as the manager to save some money. I have no idea on where to get started though and could really use some help.

For those who have done this before, could you please share your experience / advice / list of things that you love or what you'd do differently? How did you get started on your design itself? Do you have a list of contractors you'd recommend or absolutely avoid?

Any help you could give is greatly appreciated!

Many thanks

I currently run my pool using liquid chlorine but am soon making the switch to SWG.

I’ve read many of the threads that mention “all chlorine pools are already salt pools” and so wondered what I would run into when I finally got a salt test Kit. Last Oct I bought a SWG. Near the same time I ordered a Taylor salt test kit and received some free salt test strips with the SWG.

In Dec when I got more serious about installing the SWG I finally ran the test…Taylor: 4600ppm…strips: ~500 ppm. unfortunately the Taylor kit had an expired regent, should have checked when I received it. Just recently I ordered a brand new replacement TFT Test Kit that included the Taylor Salt regents. New Taylor result: 5400 ppm.

WOW, I thought the first Taylor kit was defective…turns out it wasn’t (it still tests about 4600ppm). The last time I drained and refilled my pool was almost exactly 3 years ago. Since that time my pool has been chlorinated using liquid chlorine; also, my pool has always taken quite a bit of acid since I replastered in 2014.

I didn’t expect a salt level of ~5000 ppm , I was expecting half or less than that based on comments I have read. Is that number consistent with expectations?

In any case, before I activate the SWG I needed to drain/refill anyway because the calcium level in my pool here in the desert has reached catastrophic levels (800+). I have been putting off this entire project to first install a new water softener (done), a new soft water tap for pool fill (done), installation of SWG (done). I also want to fix some tile grout while the pool is drained (not done), so just one last barrier to eliminating jugs of chlorine this summer.…whoo hoo!

I’m new to the intense & expensive world of girls club volleyball & traveling the country for all these massive sports events. Really struggling with how to afford it on top of high school ball which includes an impending Orlando/universal trip. She received a scholarship for the club tuition but that doesn’t cover all this travel (accommodations/parking/event tickets/meals).
Any Tips/ tricks/hacks aside from sleeping in your car & eating pb&j’s the whole time?
I’m all ears. Fire away! I’ve got another year & a half to go before it’s college time. Not sure if I’ll make it!

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and building/owning a pool. I have been browsing through the forum for the last few weeks looking for information on designing my pool. I live in Central California and have decided to build a pool at my house.

I have decided to build the pool myself and sub everything out. I have a background in construction and have worked in the civil engineering industry for 20 years.

I have many questions and really don't know where to start, so I guess I will start with the layout of the pool. We want a 38'x18' pool with a baja self. We want to go with 42" on the shallow end transitioning to 60" over 12'. The deep end is 96" flat over 12'.

I would appreciate your input on the design, doing an owner/build, and any sub-contractors to get bids from in Central California.

You get barnacles

At least the tests were for free. Water here costs $25 per 1000 gal...

Hi everyone!

After a few years of lurking as an avid reader of the forums, I wanted to finally give a THANK YOU to everyone on this site. I originally found TFP while my pool was being built in 2022 (I only wish I’d found you during the design phase). I’ve been using the TFP Method since the start -- and it has never failed me. Thanks to your collective wisdom, I’ve never had algae and my local pool store has barely seen my face! TFP has such an amazing knowledge base (shout-outs to @chem geek , @JasonLion , @Richard320 , @JoyfulNoise , @ajw22 , @mknauss , et al. in the Deep End -- ugh, I missed so many!). Since the "peer review" process here seems better than at many scientific journals, it’s no wonder that this method works!

With such amazing info in the searchable forums, I haven’t needed to post any questions so far. But I thought that I might join in on the discussions -- so it seems that I should introduce my pool:

I live in SE Pennsylvania. I have a 34,000 gallon 43’x18'x9' IG plaster pool that is moderately shaded by large trees. It has 2 skimmers, a double drain, 2 returns, and a hookup for my Polaris TR36P with its secondary pump. I dialed in my Jandy variable speed pump by installing a FloVis on my check valve, measuring the current draw at various pump RPMs, and then plotting a flow/power curve to select the best settings (I’ll post that story next). In my first off-season, I decided to join "Team Stenner" (thanks @Steve_in_C ) and piped in a 30 gal tank for bleach that I control with a Wi-Fi switch. There’s a 48 ft^2 DE filter. No heater; but I just bought a solar blanket and reel to try this year (thanks @Casey ). Oh, and one useless Nature2.

My main struggle has been a high acid demand -- but I’ve been patient since my plaster is still new from 2022. I’ve read up about Borates (thanks again @JasonLion ), but remain torn since I’m not sure whether I like the idea of my water feeling “silky” . I’m also considering a second smaller Stenner for the HCl.

This year will be my first time opening (no sweat!) and closing (a bit of sweat...) on my own -- but I’ve already got my Cyclone and a plan for the fall!

So once again, a huge THANK YOU to the mods, the contributors... and maybe even the other lurking readers like me!

"CYA later”

Sampo

I’m a longtime lurking reader of TFP who has recently decided to start posting (my intro is here). Thus, I thought that I’d share a tiny bit of experimental data that I generated last summer on pump speeds and their corresponding current draws on my system:

In abstract, I experimentally confirmed that my variable speed pump generates flows that increase linearly with pump RPMs over the entire range of tested speeds. But, as expected, the current draws for those flows increase exponentially. I’ve also plotted the cost of running my pump at various speeds to find a reasonable compromise: 50 GPM of flow would cost me $43.55/month if my pump were in continuous operation.

In more technical detail, I have a Jandy VS PlusHP 2.7 HP variable speed pump that I can set to arbitrary speeds in revolutions per minute (RPM). My pool has 2” piping. I’ve installed a FlowVis retrofit lid to my check valve that allows me to read flow with about +/- 2 GPM accuracy (available on Amazon with ASIN B074T1Q2C9). I used my Fluke T5-600 multimeter (ASIN B0006Z3GZU) in its ammeter setting to measure the corresponding 240V current draws on the adjacent sub panel; that instrument can read accurately at a resolution of 0.1A of AC.

I first set the pump RPMs to an initial value (1240 RPM) that resulted in a low flow of 30 gallons per minute (GPM). I then continued to vary the pump RPMs to find the values that were necessary to produce ever higher flows, each at 5 GPM intervals, up to a maximum of 90 GPM. Concurrently, I recorded the current draw (Amps at 240V) for each of these settings.

I had set out on this project after asking a simplistic question: “what is 'the best’ setting for my VS pump?” But I had quickly realized that this question doesn’t have a simple answer. I had initially looked for “pump curves” to see if they would add some insight. But I found them difficult to interpret for the task of dialing in my settings in the real world. Thus, I decided that it might be easiest to tackle the issue experimentally.

My first task was to determine the relationship between my pump speed and flow. When starting, I wasn’t quite sure what that would look like. But I hoped that it might be linear. If it had been logarithmic, then that would have suggested that extra inefficiencies (cavitation, etc.) were setting in at the higher speeds. But happily, the observed relationship was shockingly linear over the entire range that I tested:




My second goal was to determine the relationship between my pump speed and its current draw. Since I had read some very helpful articles here on TFP, I already knew that pumps would draw dramatically more current at higher speeds. Indeed, as expected, the observed relationship grew exponentially, with ever-greater currents needed to sustain the increasing pump RPMs:




I also plotted the current draw for the various flow rates from the same data. I think this might have been the "ideal" pump curve that I would have liked to have had at the outset -- but unfortunately such curves probably cannot be provided by the manufacturers since they are dependent on other factors (e.g. piping) in each system:




Finally, using my approximate local electricity rate of $0.14/kWh, I estimated the cost of the various flow rates if I chose to operate my pump continuously 24/7:
(Measured Amps)(240V)(24h/d)(30d/mo)($0.14/kWh)/(1000W/kW):



When beginning this small project, I had hoped that all these relationships might yield some “true optimum” for my pump speed -- that is, "the best" speed for my own pool. Ultimately, the observed data did not have an optimum “peak” or “valley". But they did show a reasonable “shoulder” to the growth of the current draw. Thus, I was able to pick an acceptable compromise for my own pump speed -- while avoiding an unnecessarily high electrical bill. Though I’ve changed my settings when needed based on my pool’s conditions, I’ve generally settled on 50 GPM at $43.55/month for continuous operation as a good compromise. Of course, I don’t operate my pump 24/7. But this baseline metric allows me to simulate my expected electricity use as I dial in my pool's settings.

Future directions might include pushing these data to further extremes of low and high pump speeds. It would also be interesting to determine the relationships with various inlet settings (all skimmers/drains open vs some closed) and at varying levels of sediment in my DE filter.

My raw data is provided here:



Thanks for reading. And “CYA later!"

Sampo

Hello. My name is Justin and I Am a certified pool contractor down in Sarasota florida and also handle warranty work for several large companies (pentair and Hayward). It has come to my attention the pentair globrite lights have a huge failure rate. The housings all crack in the same spot toward the back and spider up the seam on the side and let water into the housing and it shorts the light out. The newer globrites seem to have a bit better build but for those of you who want a easy and diffferent option jandy now makes a Hydrocool P series light that will absolutely fit the globrite niche and also sync to automation (pentair) using the intellibrite color scheme. These lights are better built and slightly brighter. They literally just thread right into the niche via small threads in the niche I am have replaced about 40-50 globrites last year alone most under warranty and can recommend these jandy P series lights for an alternative without having to add adapters or other non sence. The light comes with its own tool for install and comes with several color snap on face rings to match your current light face colors as well as half covered lenses for directing light up or down etc. I just wanted others to know if you have had a bad experience with globrites going bad there is a better alternative that will sync and pull just as easy as the OEM. They come in 50-100-150 ft cords. If you have just white LEDs the normal jandy 12watt Hydrocool will also fit perfectly. The P series refers to the color scheme and sync to Pentair systems. If only white this does not matter. Thanks and happy winter. I normally do not recommend other brands like this but I have never seen so many failures of a product ever. It's bad. They have a manufacturing or design issue on the globrite. The microbrite isn't much better. Also jandy makes a H series that also fits haywards 320 colorlogic niche and color scheme. I applaud jandy for this and more and more of these companies will be going to offer more sync friendly options in the future. Also the ichlor 30 cells have a bit of a issue latley as well. But that's for a different post. Peace and good will!! These are just a few I've pulled and you can see they crack in the same spot every single time. Something is wrong.

Cross post from my introduction post:
"Good morning all. Wife and I bought a 9x18 Intex AGP last fall during the "end of season" sale on Amazon, along with a saltwater system, skimmer, solar cover & roller. We live in SE Michigan in a cookie cutter 1950's ranch on a small lot. We previously had a couple raised bed gardens and couple of non-fruiting fruit trees in our backyard. Last fall in preparation for this pool I killed all the grass, cut down the trees and pulled the stumps, tilled the entire yard to 8" deep, used a ditch witch to re-grade our entire yard and create a "flat" 13'x22' area covered in landscape fabric for the pool. I used a plate compactor on the pool 13x22 area but didn't get crazy on the fine tuning of the flat / levelness as I knew that tilling and frost heaving could change over the winter. Now I'm getting the supplies ready to put in a flat and level 2x6"PT edge around the pool base area and plan on filling in with mason sand and pack it down to make the final flat grade. Can't wait for spring!"

I wanted to have a thread to share our progress / receive feedback, so apologies for the cross post if that's not acceptable here. It's my first day here!

A bit more backstory; I've spent a lot of my early life in and around pools. Neighborhood community pool as a young kid, then competitive swimming during middle and high school. My wife spent a lot of time at her friends place with a pool as a kid and last August, mentioned that she always wanted a pool. This was my chance! We were in a bit of a transition on our backyard as we did have a raised bed garden that had started to burst its frame and we left to go wild for a year or so. Earlier in 2023, I did the "No Mow May", and with the wild garden absolutely took over my backyard with thistle and other weeds. It was dangerous to walk in our backyard from all the then-mowed weeds that left surprisingly stiff and sharp stalks. This was my first thought that we might need to go the nuclear option and kill all the grass and weeds and regrade the backyard as the garden walls totally blew out and we had 10" hill of dirt in the middle of our yard. We had also years before tried to plant some of these "fruit cocktail" dwarf trees that are supposed to grow 4-6 different fruit types one the same tree; apple, pear, and stone fruit. These trees never took off like they should have and never fruited, but did grow to about 12-16' tall. Unfortunately, I had mis-dug the holes for these and they were about 6-8" below grade. So between the garden hill and sunken trunks, +70 years of backyard existence, our yard had significant grading issues.

We discussed getting an above ground pool and took the measurements to make sure that we can legally have one in our small yard with the proper powerline setbacks and we could! We looked at the Intex 9'x18'x52" for around $1150 at the time on Amazon and we decided to watch it to see if the price came down as the season wound down. It did a few weeks later and were were able to get it for $880 with tax and free next day delivery. We decided to plan for a spring '24 installation and I got to work killing our grass and cutting the trees down. I rented a large tiller, ditch witch and plate compactor for a long weekend and was able to rip out the stumps, till, and regrade our entire backyard with a 13'x22' flat(ish) area for the pool. I covered the "pool pad" with landscape fabric a planted a sun/shade grass mix. The grass seed took pretty well and we had a stable lawn before the end of growing season.

We recently started to dress up our backyard with fence planters and new LED solar lights to illuminate these planters when we get them filled with flowers. I just bought 2"x6" pressure treated boards and a rotary laser kit to create a flat / level border a couple inches higher than the highpoint of our pad. I then want to fill this border with mason sand, screed and repack it to make the final flat pool base. When we are ready to install the pool, remove the sand for the 12"x12"x2" foot pads for the pool legs so they are flush with the pool base.

Any tips or suggestions are always appreciated! Link to my progress photo album.

My pool area tends to get flooded when it rains heavily and too many times I was out there at night with a flash light switching on my mechanical pool timer (getting shocked several times) and opening those valves to pump out the pool. As I already was using Home Assistant for several things I decided to automate my pool at the lowest cost possible.

Bill of materials:

• 2 x TPE24VA from ebay, roughly $50 a piece
• 1 x Enbrighten 40Amps switch @ $130 (this is the most expensive piece of my setup)
• 1 x Sonoff 4CHPRO @ $35
• 120V to 24V transformer @ $25 for the actuators
• Outdoor junction box @ $90 (sized it a bit bigger as I have more automation ideas)
• older Samsung tablet from ebay @ $90
• Yolink water temperature sensor @ $35
• various cables, boxes, etc
• hidden wall mount incl. power supply for tablet @ $23 (Makes by Mike)

Functions (see picture of tablet):

• automated pool timer (pump) on 9am, off 5pm
  • manual on or off if needed at night
• "drain for 2 minutes", "drain for 5 minutes"
  • turn drainage valve open, close after 2 or 5 minutes
• switch valve from "Waterfall" to "Spa" and back
• various ZWave light switches for light string and underwater pool and spa lights
  • pool and spa light is LED and switches to "next mode" when "double clicking" (different colors, blinking, etc)
• water temperature display

No more going out at night. When it heavily rains and the pool floods I simply click a couple buttons on the tablet






Still a lot more ideas for more automation, this is why I have a lot of space in my junction box for more SONOFFs. E.g. there will be more valve actuators for robot mode, bubble mode, etc. Thinking about measuring chemicals too. But I haven't heard about a low cost option yet.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
TruWolf

I really like the one photo online but can't seem to find anything more about the color! Has anyone built a Bali Blue pool? And if so post some pix. Thank you in advance.

Bst,
KC

It all makes sense now.

Hi,
I've inherited the family pool from my beloved and now deceased father. Im trying to handle it to ease mums burden at the moment. Problem is I have no idea what i'm doing.

I saw some great reports about this place on whirlpool.net.au and an app to input all the bloody measurements would really help. Versus my method of that chlorine testy thing sure looks not pinky today vs yesterday.

And then theres the algae, I treat it like family now. Cause its seemingly never leaving home. Everyone else says terrible things about it. But getting rid of it... well I was sure the sun would implode before that anyway.

Cheers boys!

Calcium Nodules
In 1998, the onBalance team published a paper in the Journal of the Swimming Pool and Spa Industry (JSPSI) on calcium nodule formation. The paper provided the science and mechanics for the cause of calcium carbonate nodules developing in pools. It explained that delaminated plaster (bond failure) spots/areas can cause cracks to develop over time and result in nodules continually growing on the visible cracks. It also explained that LSI (or CSI) aggressive water does not cause calcium nodules to grow on delaminated cracks. In 2019, some leaders of the pool plastering industry acknowledged that fact.

An Unusual Type of Nodule Formation
About a dozen years ago, the onBalance team began investigating a slightly different and smaller type of nodule in recently plastered pools. Some of the nodules had not developed on delamination cracks, but instead, they had formed on severe “crazing” or “check” cracks that were nearly invisible. See photos of small nodules:





A few pools were drained, and core samples of the small nodules were sent to a professional cement lab for petrographic examination. The labs verified that crystalline calcium nodules had formed on excessive shrinkage cracks and not a delamination cracks. It concluded that if cracks are large enough, small nodules can grow on the almost invisible cracks. The lab confirmed that the formation of the small nodules have the same mechanics and reactions that cause large delamination nodules. Also, the cement lab ruled out aggressive water because there was no sign of any (aggressive water) etching of the plaster surface.

Nodules Are Different From Scale
Calcium “nodule” formation is different from the common and uniform calcium scale that forms on pool surfaces as to due to very hard and out-of-balance pool water. This article is about the random formation of crystalline and sharp calcium carbonate nodules that continually grow on small cracks and protrude above the surrounding smooth plaster surface. See Photo of scale:



Cement/Plaster Science
It has been documented by the ACI and PCA that abnormal and severe check cracking or crazing can develop in cement/plaster surfaces for several distinct reasons. Hot dry weather, or strong winds can dry the cement/plaster surface and cause excessive shrinkage cracks. Also, poor workmanship and materials, such as adding a high content of water and calcium chloride to the (cement/plaster) mix can cause excess shrinkage and result in severe craze cracking of the cement/plaster surface. Proper mixing and proper application minimize shrinkage problems.

A False Theory
Unfortunately, there are some plaster people that are still trying to convince pool owners and service techs that (LSI) aggressive pool water causes the nodules to form on micro-cracks which are present in normal plaster. That is nonsensical; aggressive water dissolves calcium carbonate and prevents the formation of nodules, including common scale. And pool water chemistry plays no part in causing plaster shrinkage and cracking.

Their Own Test Pool Experiments Provided Contrary Evidence
It is interesting to note that those who suggest that aggressive water causes nodules likely know that the joint NPC, NPIRC, and Cal Poly Test Pool project (2004-2008) provided the pool industry with strong evidence that nodules are not caused by LSI (or CSI) aggressive water.

For example, during the four years of experiments, many test pools were plastered by the NPC and maintained with LSI aggressive water for 8 months at a time. Some test pools even had an acid startup performed. The pools were then drained and inspected by many pool industry people. There were no reports of calcium nodules in the test pools. If aggressive water causes nodules to form, then nodules should have formed in those pools.

Other evidence is that cement sidewalks do not form nodules on cracks when subjected to rain which is very aggressive by pool water chemistry standards.

This plaster nodule problem should not be controversial. Those who maintain the pool water chemistry should not be blamed for causing this plaster problem. And unfortunately, there are other plaster defects that are being (incorrectly) blamed on aggressive water chemistry also. This nonsense needs to end.

For a more complete and detailed explanation of all types of calcium nodule formation, click this link: Calcium Nodules – Pool Help

To review the petrographic studies by the professional cement lab on calcium nodules, click this link: https://2e7fc7.p3cdn1.secureserver.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/JSPS_V6N2_pp20-26b.pdf

I have searched this forum repeatedly, and I'm still unsure. For those who have signature matrix installed, how are you enjoying it, is it rough on the feet or is it perfect for what you want?? I'm looking at the signature matrix cadet blue for our pool build that starts in 2 weeks... Thanks,

ALL INTELLICENTER USERS

1. This week, I had the opportunity to participate in an online meet with two Pentair Senior Product Managers.

2. The primary topic was the long anticipated ability for IntelliCenter users to control IntelliValve positioning (5 user-defined positions), via the web-client/mobile app(s).

3. Below are a few key take-aways.

4. In the near future, I may have some further details regarding what the settings page/menus may look like and what features it may contain. With the permission of Pentair, I will share those features here when they become available.

5. That said, they are looking at developing a couple of drop down options which would contain "pre-named" valve names and Purpose fields. We discussed naming conventions. I suggested some names that I use on a cheat sheet that I developed years ago. They seemed to like those. I then suggested that the IntelliCenter community here may have many more suggestions on what they might like to see regarding valve naming conventions, because everyone's plumbing designs are different and varied.

As examples, here are mine.
* P/S Suction - Home-Pool/Spa Suction. Position #2-Spa Skim/Drain Suction ONLY.
* P/S Return - Home-Pool/Spa Return. Position #2-Pool/Spa Return Valve
* Skim Only - Home-Pool Skim/Drain. Pool/Skim/Drain Suction. Position #2-Vacuum Port Only.
* Water Feature - Home-Pool Returns ONLY. Position #2-Pool Returns AND Water Feature.
* Heat By - Home-No Spa Heater Flow Position #2-Flow through Spa Heater.
* Filter/Chem By - Normal Filter/Chem Flow. Position #2-Bypass Filter/Chem Sensor Manifold.

If you would like input on valve naming conventions and purposes in the drop-down/purpose fields, then please respond with your suggestions in thread replies below and I will be happy to pass them along.

6. As briefly mentioned in 4.(d) above, a complete redesign of the IntelliCenter web-client (intellicenter2.com), is being given higher priority and is on the "drawing board". They mentioned that this is due to your participation and input here:

INTELLICENTER WEB-CLIENT / MOBILE APP?

TO ALL INTELLICENTER USERS Since the introduction of IntelliCenter nearly five years ago, I know that many of you have voiced your dissatisfaction here on the forum, regarding the outdated, user-unfriendly and overall “clunky” style of the IntelliCenter Web-Client (intellicenter2.com). As some...

www.troublefreepool.com

They spoke to the fact that the "look" and "feel" of the web-client redesign will attempt to mirror the Pentair Home Mobile Apps.

BTW, beta testing for the Pentair Home Apple Watch app is currently underway.
r.

Our pool is finished! Pic attached for fun!

We mixed the salt in today and ran everything for pool school but it’s still very cold and I had the builder winterize until we’re ready to open in.

There are no chemicals at all in the pool, fresh city water fill and salt is all.

Should I add anything at this point or just let it sit until we open?

Thanks

I have been quietly observing this wonderful community of pool enthusiasts for a bit now, soaking up knowledge from both seasoned experts and fellow newcomers like myself. It's truly a fantastic environment & I'm grateful for the wealth of knowledge shared here. As we near the final stages of finalizing materials and signing the contract for SWCG pool, I'd greatly appreciate your guidance on the attached pool bid.
We feel confident that we have chosen a reputable and experienced pool contractor who is licensed, insured and has a track record of delivering quality workmanship but at the end of the day this is HUGE investment and we want to make sure that we are getting the right equipment.
Would you kindly review the attached contract and offer any recommendations or suggestions ?

Here's the design, we are modifying a few things from the design shown:
- centering the spa, with symmetrical cutouts on the far end mirroring the design of the pool & add round connecting section between the the scalloped parts to maintain visual harmony and balance.
- remove the fireplace included in the design below


We are thrilled to be finalizing the design & selecting materials for a new pool this Saturday! So excited but I must admit, I am feeling a bit intimated by the process and the myriad possibilities of missteps. Looking forward to learning from you experts! Thank you in advance for your guidance!

... asking for a friend .... ok, not really. As the title explicitly asks - anyone?

I've had some water issues lately that have cost me a bundle and could have been averted with a simple notification system. Also, my water utility sucks in terms of any kind of feedback from their meter (you can get your usage data at the end of the month when the bill is due and after there's nothing you can do about it .... thanks a lot). The Flume looks like it's an easy hook up to a standard residential meter. Just wondering if anyone has some real world feedback aside from all the useless reviews on Amazon.

Heater stopped working yesterday. Pentair remote showed the heater working, but nothing was happening. Incidentlally, I think the pump was shut off as well, possibly due to a power outage that could have tripped the breaker.

Our pool company is saying that it likely got moisture in the firebox. possibly through the exhaust, or residual moisture (equipment is in an underground pit room). Picture attached. It looks pretty corroded, but curious If others that know more agree before we move forward with 4-5k replacement. Pentair MasterTemp Pool Heater 400,000 BTU natural gas heater, salt water pool. Heater serial date is approx 9 years ago. Thanks!