Hi All - I have started the process of gathering quotes and thus far have narrowed it down to 1 pool builder, pair of ex-cops. Below is everything they have detailed, if I can get some guidance on what is good vs what needs to be updated or is overkill, and simply paying a higher price for something not needed please let me know. Thanks.

Pool Perimeter =90
Pool Sq Ft =450
Gallons = 10,368
15x30
Salt Water - no Spa
Tanning Ledge with 2 bubblers

Pool construction:
- Rebar structure is comprised of #4 rebar on 10" o.c. (Extra bars
in the floor and breaks) with a 4-bar beam and double wrapped
skimmer cavity.
- Pool shell is comprised of wet mix shotcrete. Minimum 4500 psi
and applied by certified personnel. We do not use dry mix gunite
due to its inconsistent application and inherent weaknesses.
Limited lifetime warranty on pool shell.
- All coping material is a minimum of 5cm in thickness.
- Main drain and skimmer lines are 2.5" SCH 40 PVC, return lines
are 1.5” and 2" SCH 40 PVC. All plumbing is run outside of the pool
shell to prevent compromising the rigidity of the pool shell.
Extra GFCI outlet at Pad

Pool Steel
Structural steel is #4 (1/2") rebar, 10" o.c. with a 12" x 12" 4 bar
beam.
Deck dowls are #3 (3/8") rebar.
Proper bonding with #8 bare copper wire and DB bonding clamps.

Tile - level 2 ceramic
Coping - Travertine
Plaster - Wet Edge pebble finish
Pool Equipment -
Drain Pots
CTM-25-0001 / 25521-000-000
2"FPT SIDE WHITE 8" MAIN DRAIN SUMP - 2 Each

SLIP U-3 SKIMMER W/O FLOAT
STA-25-1063 / 08650-6404 GRY 2" - 2 Each

EPUMP VS PUMP W/ 2 AUX RELAYS
TLD-10-2133 / VSSHP270DV2A 2.7HP 115/230VAC

CV580 580SQF CV SERIES CARTRIDGE FILTER
TLD-05-118 / CV580 580SQF CV SERIES CARTRIDGE FILTER

2-PORT CPVC NEVERLUBE VALVE
JDY-56-4054 / 4716 12/CS 2"-2.5"- 4 Each

STRAIGHT CPVC CHECK VALVE
JDY-56-4084 / 7305 12/CS 2"-2.5"- 1 Each

Polaris Freedom Cordless Robotic Cleaner
Freedom Cordless Robotic Cleaner
POL-20-0005 / FR550CBR

CLEAR WATER STOP ADAPTER FITTING
SPG-251-1183 / 25575-509-000 1.5"FPTxS

Heat Pump/Chiller - Either Jandy Versatemp JRT2000 or Aquacal SQ120

Automation for Salt (Per PB i need this for it to be a Salt pool)
IQ906-PS-PC-SWC Jandy Salt System
Jandy Aqualink® RS PS6 Pool and Spa Kit with PureLink Sub
Panel, PLC1400 and iAqualink
JDY-30-1743 / IQ906-PS-PC-SWC

INTERMATIC PX300 TRANSFORMER

100' RGBW NICHELESS LED LIGHT - HYDROCOOL
JDY-30-0709 / JLU4C24W100 24W 12V - 2 each

Thank you so much for the help.

Tired of your pool build blues? Just flip it over and make a second house instead!

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Hi everyone

I am located in Queensland Australia and I signed up to learn more about how others take care of their swim spas and hot tubs. I am also trying to gather knowledge around water chemistry and maintenance tips/advice. So far I have learnt a lot and have gone out and purchased a Clear Choice Labs test kit to start doing my own water tests after a few inconsistent experiences with test strips and pool shops. I have a Vortex Hydrozone swim spa which is dual zone (6000L @ 27 degrees C / 1300L @ 39 degrees C) model that we use year round.

Hi, I've been following TFP for pool chemistry maintenance, and I now find myself in need of help with a pool remodel...so I'm reaching out to the kind and knowledgeable folks here.

We remodeled our spa to be elevated, and I'm trying to figure out some details on the spillway. Please see the attached photos. My questions are:

1. We want to use a marble stone ledger for the exterior of the spa, and would like the aesthetic of having it wrap around the entire spa, including under the spillway. But I'm concerned that if the ledger gets wet on a regular basis, that mineral deposits will form and that cleaning/maintenance would be a hassle. Does anyone have knowledge or experience about this?

2. I've read some threads on TFP where someone has suggested that if water runs down the outer surface of the spa wall down into the pool, that can eventually lead to problems with the grout and water getting under the tiles. Is this true? And is the solution to have the spillway be a waterfall? We're planning to use the 3"x6" tiles in the photos.

3. To create a waterfall effect (rather than running down the side of the wall)...does there need to be an overhang? I read in a separate post that a 2 inch overhang with a groove or silicone bead on the underside is used to create a waterfall. However, I've seen many photos of spillways that do not have an overhang, and there is a simple right angle. I attached a photo of a wide (and curved) tile spillway that has a nice waterfall.

4. If there needs to be an overhang, what material is usually used for the overhang? And is there a way to create an overhang that is also tiled?

5. To have a waterfall from a spillway, I understand that some factors are the width of the spillway and the force of the spa jets. Is there a rough estimate of the widest a spillway can be and still have a waterfall?

Any help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks!

Ok … who loves their moka pot -



I certainly realize that a nerd-filled pool forum will likely have a high percentage of coffee brewing snobs so let’s not start any Coffee Wars here! I’m just looking for some fellow travelers who love a good stove top espresso and are willing to share tips. I’ve had some successes, and a few epic failures, with my beloved moka pot. I have a small 2-cup (120mL) Brikka model from Bialetti … reminds me of my grandpa’s stove top when I was little paisano running around the house … anyone willing to share some stories …

1. On the first of each month, a contest "theme" will be announced (i.e. water clarity, family fun, decking, custom features, lighting, scenery, etc)
2. Members have 10 days to UPLOAD ONE image for consideration; Photo must be related to the thread titled theme for that month.
3. Per general TFP rules, nothing profane, political, or insulting.
4. The first 10 days is the submission period. Posts are limited to ONE image ONLY. No discussion posts yet. This will make viewing much easier for all.
5. Days 11 - 15 the thread will be locked and is for voting only. No more uploads. Viewers now have a final opportunity to vote (or modify their selection) for their favorite upload.
6. Members are encouraged to use an emotion icon ("Like" or "Love") to vote for their favorite upload; it will be tough, but select only one favorite.
7. On day 16, emotion Likes/Loves will be tallied for a winner. In the event of a tie, we will create a poll on the thread to make a final selection.
8. Once a winner is announced, the thread will be unlocked and comments/discussions are welcomed. Winner and nominees can tell us all about their pool/photo/event.
9. A member can only be selected as winner once per calendar year.
10. Winner will receive a $50 gift certificate from tstestkits.net! Oh, and maybe some bragging rights.

This should be fun. Showcase your equipment pads. Let’s see those pics! Have fun and good luck to those who apply!

Just moved in to a house with a pool and hoping to take care of the general maintenance on my own, but I'm an absolute beginner. I'm in Sacramento, CA, so it's been pretty chilly for the last couple months. No chems have been added for at least 6 weeks, and the filter was out for 3-4 weeks. The filter is running again and I have the TF Pro with SLAM option test kit on the way. The water is still looking pretty good, so hoping I won't have to SLAM.

Questions right now are, how long should I be running the filter each day (there is also a Polaris vacuum)?

Once the test kit arrives, should I perform all tests or start with one or two parameters first?

Is there a particular order I should be performing these tests and adding chems? For example, should I start with an FC test and get that level in range before moving on to ph, or should I be testing and adjusting everything at once?

Thanks for reading, and for any tips or suggestions!

Joe

I was just standing here measuring CYA and the thought hit me. Does an easier manual method exist?

Rather than a sight tube with a dot, I was envisioning a wedge shaped vessel. A vertical back, flat sides, and a slanted front. There would be a black line down the middle of the back. You fill it with solution (heck, you could even have reagent and water lines on it, no need for a separate mixing vessel). Then you sight it from the front, the level where the black line is occluded (by the increasing distance viewed through the water as it gets lower into the wedge) indicates your CYA.

It seems to simple to not have been put into production. Maybe because it uses more reagent than the other method?

I'm trying to understand what caused this. The motor shaft on my Pentair Intelliflo VSF sheared off. Has anyone seen this before?



The details: VSF pump installed in 2019. Everything was fine one day, the next day the pump stopped moving water. Pump would start normally, but after a few seconds would throw an alarm due to lack of water flow. Opened the pump to find the motor shaft had sheared off flush with the mechanical seal at the motor. The now-detached portion of the shaft remains firmly attached to the impeller and appears to have a slight bevel at the failure point.

The motor turns freely and did not make any unusual sounds while running. We never had major leaks, but based on the condition of the motor housing we apparently had some. The impeller was clean so there should not have been excessive drag. Could the seal have caused this?

If anyone has any thoughts, ideas conjecture, I would love to hear it.

Thanks-

I have Intellicenter with 2 separate bodies of water (pool & spa). I hooked up both intellichlors to the data bus. Intellicenter controlled them as if they were 1 intellichlor (presumably for parallel operations). Well, I didn't want that because I run my spa intellichlor at 4% and my pool intellichlor at 40%.
I called Pentair and asked for technical advice. Pentair guy confirmed that intellicenter is working as designed and cannot separately control intellichlors with different settings. So I disconnected the spa intellichlor from the data bus. Now intellicenter software controls/reports on the pool intellichlor only. I don't see why Pentair would design a dual body system to control dual everything EXCEPT for the intellichlors. Weird design choice.

Your weather is drunk and causing a mess in my yard. Please come pick it up at once.

Hi, we have a new pool/hot tub combo. We use only the hot tub for now and all kids getting a rash . 90-95 degrees.
It’s a SWG pool that was just setup. Chlorine drop test gives me 30 drops (so result is 15?).
What else can I do?

So I am shopping around for a pH sensor that I want to mount inline in my plumbing and hook up to my automation system. I really hate testing pH. Everyone one of the industrial ones that I have seen need to be calibrated often. Do any exist that don't?

How do WaterGuru, Phin, Intellichem do it? Or do they need some secret calibration that I don't know about.

Ok well today I finally got all my parts from Intex to fix my problem I was having with my sand filter. Here is a link to that thread which I will update as well http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/101906-New-Pool-Intex-Customer-Service-Long-Post-lol

So basically for the sake of this thread I searched for Quikrete Pool sand and found no negative reviews and even found where people said it works just fine for their filters and Intex specifically. Well after spending 2 weeks waiting on parts (read the above thread) and cleaning almost 50lbs of sand out of my pool over the course of a month I see why it was happening and why all sand isn't created equal.

The sand I originally bought was $5.xx a bag from Home Depot for 50lbs and is the Quikrete brand "pool filter sand" the sand I have now was purchased from Ace hardware and is HTH and was $12.xx for 50lbs.

Below are pictures and you will see why the sand just blew threw the laterals and into my pool.












As you can see the difference is ridiculous. The pressure in my pool has increased greatly. My filter works so much better now too. Hopefully this helps someone out. The sand cost a bit more but works so much better.


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Had a fun time worrying about my pool freezing. Backyard doesn't get enough sun but water was barely flowing. I carefully used a soil tamper to break the glaciers and used a 100 foot hose from tankless water heater to melt away the ice from my water features and spillway.
Before:

After:

As the Big Freeze ends, everyone will survey the post apocalyptic landscape of damaged equipment and there will be a huge and desperate scramble for replacement equipment.

Begin to figure out what you will need and begin to get it on order before the current stock is depleted.

If a salt water pool has a slightly lower freeze point (?) should you add salt even though your SWCG is not functioning?

20’ x 14’ free form gunite build … going well so far.

Update 1/14

Exciting update! After numerous revisions and discussions, we've overhauled our pool design. Currently, we're navigating the permitting phase. As we embark on this construction journey, we value your insights and feedback. If you've been through a similar process, your experiences and tips would be incredibly helpful. Stay tuned for updates, and feel free to share your thoughts as we progress. Thank you.

Older Thread

Hello everyone,

I'm excited to have recently discovered this site, and I must say, it's been a wealth of information for us as first-time pool owners. We are in Austin Texas and we've been in the process of planning our pool and have received several different bids from various pool companies. Currently, we're leaning towards a particular bid and company that we believe is the best fit for us.

However, given that we're new to this and prices have been fluctuating a lot in the past year, we want to be extra careful with our decision. That's where your experience and expertise come in! We would greatly appreciate feedback from experienced pool owners like yourselves.

If any of you have worked with the company we're considering or have had similar pool designs, we would love to hear your thoughts. What are some potential challenges we should anticipate as first-time pool owners? Are there any particular features or materials that have stood the test of time for you? And of course, any tips on budgeting and cost-saving measures would be highly valuable.

We want to make a well-informed decision, and your feedback would mean the world to us. Thank you in advance for taking the time to share your insights and experiences with us!

UPDATED POOL AND SPA SPECS 1/14

• Pool size: 18’ x 44’
• Pool depth: 3.5 to 6 feet to top of tile (water level is true depth)
• Spa Size: 6’ x 10’, elevated 6 inches above pool level
• Spa depth: 3.5’ to top of tile (water level is true depth)
• 25 linear feet of 4 feet high Waterfall Wet Wall
• 20’ Fire Feature at Waterfall Wet Wall
• 18'x18' Floating Ipe Decking (waiting for bid for millboard decking)
• 10'x20' Aluminum Pergola

Hello - I find myself in the curious position of lurking and learning after buying a house with a wild 90s pool. The previous owner had a laissez-faire approach to most things related to maintenance and the pool was no exception. The pool was surrounded by crazy shedding trees. The weir door: missing (now replaced). Looks like epic blue copper stains, tannin stains and heavily abused pebblecrete that either had multiple acid washes along the way OR it's the original 1992 pebblecrete and it's a mess. There has been a repair of the step and they appear to have chosen the pebblecrete colour for that step repair from a crazy wheel. It is currently on the acidic side because I am making my way down to try citric acid for this copper but I think it's been there so long we're past the point. I found the previous owner's stash of copper algaecide so I suspect... it was that. I suspect they drained it half way down for the step repair then the copper went wild plating all around (guessing). I am resigned to a pool renovation in the not too distant future. I have become obsessed about the stains and I will mostly like continue to play my stain removal games until I commit to a facelift for it.

I managed to dodge pool duties in all previous addresses in my life so I came in cold at this place. I had a pool guy come round and talk absolute BS "you can't really ever have too much chlorine in this heat" he said. Oh also that I need to hurry up and buy more salt. Would have been nice if he told me I had CC. I discovered TFP and have since bought a Taylor kit. I play with the pool more than in the pool.

Now I can say:

FC: 3.5 (still coming down after SLAM - checking to see if these stains were organic... they are not)
CC: 0 (no pink on the test today)
PH: 7.2
CH: 250
CYA: 33 (I have been diluting after the chloramine scandal)
TA: 50 (came down after messing with oxalic acid stain remover... was too impatient to wait for FC to come down so I know I played myself there).

The water is so clear so the stains are making me extra mad.

I have been on a murdering spree of the shedding trees and am in the process of finding and re-planting pool friendly items. Also found an algae blob hiding inside the lower surface of the pool light! There was no other visible or brushable algae anywhere else so it explained the weird numbers (when I had guess strips).

Thank you to everyone who contributes here, it's forced me to do it right and learn the things. It's true what they say: you don't know what you don't know. Blissfully clueless. Now I'm out here like Harry Potter in potions class having flashbacks to what kind of craziness was in my water!!!

Well out with last year and hears to a new year. Our usual New Years Eve dinner consists of see the pics

Hi Everyone - We are still working on getting our final quote from our builder and a new question has arisen. We are buidling a pool in Austin, TX. Our original quote included a "pebble finish" but not a Pebble Tec product. After spending time in several friends pools, we decided we would prefer a smoother finish and we asked our builder about Pebble Fina since they had done a friend's Bead Crete pool. They don't do Pebble Fina, but do Hydrazzo instead. After all of the reading I''ve done, it sounds like Hydrazzo is much more sensitive to pool chemistry than other finishes. Also, it is a $990 upgrade from the "pebble finish" in the quote. I feel a little stumped. We were getting close to signing and now I have another big question in front of me. Any advice on Hydrazzo? I searched the forum and didn't see anything horrible about it but didn't see a lot of information about experiences with it. Thanks!

Many of us may have had the unfortunate experience of adding soda ash to raise the pH and turned the pool water a milky white… in fact, we refer to it as “milking” a pool. Why does that happen and what does that do to the water?

Well, the soda ash (sodium carbonate) is normally very soluble in the water and goes into solution almost immediately. But it also can raise the pH and the Saturation Index high enough to cause calcium bicarbonate (dissolved calcium in the pool water, or calcium hardness) to precipitate. The white cloud you see is not actually the soda ash, but precipitated calcium carbonate.

If a small amount of calcium carbonate is precipitated and creates some cloudiness, it generally and gradually, usually within minutes, re-dissolves and clears up. The added carbonate (from soda ash) blends through the pool, changing and becoming bicarbonates of calcium and sodium, and the pH and the alkalinity rise, as planned. But if too much calcium is precipitated, it triggers a reaction that results in calcium carbonate precipitate that does not typically dissolve back into the rest of the water.

When a pool is milked, steps can be taken to either re-dissolve the calcium (by lowering the pH using acid until the Saturation Index value is low enough so that the calcium carbonate becomes bicarbonate and is re-solubilized), or we can filter out the precipitate and lower the calcium level.

The advantage of the first option is that within an hour or two the pool water can be clear again, but with everything (including the calcium!) back where it came from. The advantage of the second is that we pool water can be softened by reducing the calcium hardness level, but the pool will be cloudy through the filtration process, which may take days or a week.

By manipulating the water’s saturation chemistry, calcium can be removed via an ion exchange-style process of adding sodium to remove calcium, and then clear the water by filtration.

By way of example, we helped a pool owner who’s 18,000-gallon pool had a calcium hardness level of 1196 ppm, a pH of 8.2, and a total alkalinity of 180. The pool owner did not want to drain the pool unless they really had to, so they contacted us. We added 70 pounds of soda ash to the pool. This precipitated around 70 pounds of calcium carbonate, which was filtered from the pool. The resultant readings were a calcium hardness level of 589 ppm, a pH of 7.5, and a total alkalinity of 158.

Wait a minute! Didn’t adding 70 POUNDS of soda ash cause a HUGE increase in pH and alkalinity? Actually, and perhaps surprisingly, no. Since there is an almost one-to-one exchange of alkaline materials (sodium carbonate in and calcium carbonate out), the pH and the alkalinity actually stayed about the same.

Caustic soda (sodium hydroxide or NaOH) can also be used instead of soda ash to precipitate calcium. Less material is required for the same result, but sodium hydroxide may not be available and convenient as the soda ash.

There are variables in how much calcium is precipitated from a given amount of soda ash. These include water temperature (the higher the temperature, the more precipitate), the existing level of calcium, and addition method (the more “localized” the addition method, the more precipitate).

We have found that a simple application of chemistry can save a pool owner from the necessity of draining their pool, and that the calcium carbonate precipitate should not adhere to the pool surface if continually brushed and removed by filtration quickly.

This procedure, however, does not lower CYA or TDS levels.

1. On the first of each month, a contest "theme" will be announced (i.e. water clarity, family fun, decking, custom features, lighting, scenery, etc)
2. Members have 10 days to UPLOAD ONE image for consideration; Photo must be related to the thread titled theme for that month.
3. Per general TFP rules, nothing profane, political, or insulting.
4. The first 10 days is the submission period. Posts are limited to ONE image ONLY. No discussion posts yet. This will make viewing much easier for all.
5. Days 11 - 15 the thread will be locked and is for voting only. No more uploads. Viewers now have a final opportunity to vote (or modify their selection) for their favorite upload.
6. Members are encouraged to use an emotion icon ("Like" or "Love") to vote for their favorite upload; it will be tough, but select only one favorite.
7. On day 16, emotion Likes/Loves will be tallied for a winner. In the event of a tie, we will create a poll on the thread to make a final selection.
8. Once a winner is announced, the thread will be unlocked and comments/discussions are welcomed. Winner and nominees can tell us all about their pool/photo/event.
9. A member can only be selected as winner once per calendar year.
10. Winner will receive a $50 gift certificate from tstestkits.net! Oh, and maybe some bragging rights.

Let's see those kitchen pics from around your pool. Have fun and good luck to those who apply!

All,

Can't believe I am starting my own "build" thread, and not sure if I am more terrified or excited

Have come across so many helpful tips and pieces of advice in my lurking over recent months, but now hoping for insight specific to my situation. Attached is a lot plan with the initial layout of the yard and pool (North is toward the top of the page). Below are some of the specific items we are looking at, please critique this as much as necessary as nothing has been set in stone yet.

Once I get feedback the next step is going to the engineer to get plans and permits, then contacting Subs.

Plan:

• Gilbert, AZ
• 16' x 26' Rectangular - no water feature
  • ~11,000 gallons
  • 4' to 5' to 4' (floor to mid waterline tile)
• 7' x 7' elevated spa (18") with spillover. (Sit and Spin style, within border of pool to save yard space for pergola/outdoor kitchen)
• 8' x 8' baja - next to spa
• Robot cleaner (no longer planning IFCS based on feedback here)
• Microbrite lights
  • Two on the South (long) wall - to face away from the house
  • One on the baja step
  • One in spa
• Mini Pebble
  • JewelScape's Yacht Club Blue
• Waterline tile - TBD
• Coping:
  • Travertine vs Limestone
  • "Pearlescent" is one option recommended by contractor (Monterrey Tile Company - Shop Pearlescent products today!)
  • Same decking to be used for coping, patio overlay, and pergola pad/outdoor kitchen

Equipment:

• *Will be placed on a pad along the West wall, behind a pergola
• Pentair Intellicenter i8PS combo with VS pump, 2 valve actuators, and IC40 SWG
• Pentair CCP420 Cartridge filter
• Jandy style valves (no ball valves)
• 2 skimmers - separate returns
  • One on the East (short) wall near the NE corner (d/t wind direction)
  • One on the South (long) wall (closest to the patio)
• Auto-fill connected to water softener in the garage (West wall near access door)
• Heater - HELP!

Questions:

• Should the travertine/linestone be placed in the equipment pad area also? Or just use concrete?
• Best HP for pump? (I am of the assumption this will power both the pool and spa on the same pump?)
• Return lines okay at 2", but all supply lines should be 2.5" minimum?
• Best Heater for my setup? Natural gas stubout available at back of the house, as well as at gas meter
• Chiller now or just have plumbed to add later? How much room do I need to leave/account for this at the pad?
  • Thinking a Glacier brand. Not sure if GPC25 is sufficient for my pool size, or if I really need the GPC210. (see attachment for specs)
• Baja 12" to waterline?
• Should I add steps off the baja into the pool? Or steps elsewhere? I don't want to cut into the baja with steps. But, 18" baja down to 4' is going to be a big drop.
• Do I need the Pentair 420 filter, or is the 320 model sufficient? (see attachment for specs)

Has anyone ever tried tying something like a fishing line on a washer through the hole on the skimmer lid to have the basket come up with the lid?

I realize this is an odd question, but we keep our pool open year round, and this would really simplify those daily skimmer cleans.

Thanks in advance!

There are some people that don’t want daily, or close to it, pool care. There are some people that don’t want to consume the pool school and learn the chemistry, or even basics, to ensure their pool is balanced. And that’s fine.

So is there a non-TFP model that makes sense for these people?

From a pool store or product perspective all the chemicals are generic and you can’t patent (bleach, acid, etc.). So they’re forced to market magic potions which are a mixture of things you can get at the grocery store. And none of the combinations are stable enough for the average user. There aren’t any ways to extend chlorine addition without adding CYA or CH.

Pool Companies are in the same boat. The average monthly cost for weekly care is what $150-200? How could you possibly effectively treat a pool and make a profit with the TFP method at that competitive price? It’s no surprise that they cut corners, they need to make money.

So it begs the question, is there a non-TFP method that makes sense? How can you own a pool if you aren’t willing to dedicate the effort (as minimal as it is) to its care?

Curious to hear people’s thoughts, it seems like everyone who doesn’t want to follow the method we all are committed to are destined for green pools and unsanitary conditions.

New movie coming out January 5th about a haunted pool looks pretty interesting,check out the trailer shows a dilapidated pool new homeowners fix up and horror ensues..”Maybe they’re not pool people”

I've been testing pool & spa water for over 20 years. I purchased my first Pool Forum test kit back in 2001 or so and after wearing it out built my own using all Taylor re agents and hardware and even a Plano Tackle box just like the original. I have a very good friend who is building a pool and wanted to give them a test kit for Christmas. Rather than build them one, I ordered the TF Pro. I am impressed! Love, love love the case. It allows the test tubes to stand up rather than lay down, is a smaller foot print and is first class all the way. I also really like the Smart Stir stirring device (had to try it out). The entire kit is well thought out. Guess I'll be ordering one for myself now....... Very Nice job TFtestkits!

The 25lb bag randomly came up as a suggestion while I was buying light bulbs and the price was too good to pass up. I needed a small bag to finish the season and it was $5/lb at Walmart. HD was $6 or $7.

Their 25 lb bag of Calcium is $49 at the moment and I'm happy with that too.