Yellowout and algae

[reggiehammond]

I'm at that point where I believe I need to hire a PRO, but I certainly don't want my pool store doing it because I truly believe my testing skills are better than theirs.

There is no one to help you, but yourself. The pool store is not working in your interest. They want to sell you stuff. A pool service is not going to work in your interest as they aren't willing to go to your pool every day. It's all just a game, but the actual things you need to do are very simple.

Trust the TFP process. Pool Care Basics
Self-test using a TFP recommended kit. Test Kits Compared
Follow the SLAM Process completely.

If you try to mix and match methods, adding chemicals you do not need or are counter-productive... you're just going to end up wasting your own time, your own money, and your own sanity.

 

[michaelwoosley]

I reviewed all your previous posts, but didn't try to knit together what had been going on with previous attempts to SLAM and deal with the issues.
Given the saga - it would be well worth your while to invest the $8 per year in the paid version of PoolMath, Then you can save all of your history of testing and chem additions via the logs, AND we can then see it here also, to give a more complete picture of what has been happening - and avoiding repeated asking about your levels.

I get the sense that the previous attempts have been a bit episodic and the expectation has been for fast results, so SLAM's have perhaps ended prematurely. But even if not, dead algae can persist for much longer than one desires. It may not require more slamming, if one can repeatedly pass the OCLT. But it may take many days of brushing and vacuuming before it all gets flushed out (either by gong to waste or trapped in the filter). It does seem that as time has gone on, you are seeing less and less accumulation - which is good.

So - do those white clouds very easily puff up when disturbed? Then from your past history, the likelihood is it is dead algae that is still slowly settling out.
IF you've been very diligent about keeping your Cl level well in the target range, and still pass an OCLT, then it is just frustrating brushing/vacuuming as needed, that will get better - but longer than you would wish for.
IF you haven't been as up on it (days you just couldn't test, and might have dipped low on Cl), then you might still be having mini-algae blooms during those times, and what you are seeing is the result of the subsequent adds (that kill some of it) to get back up to the target.

As a side note - there are other things that can grow in pools. Most notably a biofilm of bacteria that forms on surfaces. The most common is one that is slightly translucent pink. Very harmless, but a little slimy, and of course not desired. An indicator is the bottom feeling slippery when you walk around in the pool. It forms as a film, and the top layers serve as a "skin" to protect the underlying ones from the chlorine. So even at SLAM levels, it may not be killed. It doesn't grow really fast, like algae can. The treatment for it is super easy - brush the pool every few days. That breaks up the "skin" and then even regular levels of Cl will take care of it. It will not though, dead or alive, accumulate in piles.

sande005
Thank you so so much for weighing in on my problem. I feel really bad about my visit to our pool provider today...I had come to a point of frustration after 7 weeks of unsuccessful elimination of this puffy white cloud stuff on the bottom of our pool. I know I should have known better, but the NEW girl convinced me, based off my description, she had a known fix. She sold us a product called Purge... used for mold bacteria. I tried it, but I'm CONVINCED I was duped!
I'm ready to surrender to TFP.

Sande005, if I may, my current daily routine is early morning around 9am
vacuum dead algae (my assumption)
brush floor/wall
backwash filter
filter to waste \ filter
test water
add chemicals as needed
My targets are FC-6, pH-7.6, TA-100, CYA-50,
CH-175

The occurrence of the dead algae over the last 7 days or so hasn't seemed to lessen much. I've tried to keep FC around 5-6 during this time frame. I can't help but wonder how long I will have to continue this process . It's not like I have a lot of time left before closing season is here.
Should I SLAM and continue the process until I stop seeing the dead algae floating on the bottom of the pool. To be honest, this happened during the previous SLAM'S, I thought the little puffy things were just residual since I had passed the OCLT, and had pristine water.
What other tips might you have, other than to place careful optimism in our pool providers?

Thanks again Sande005

 

[PoolStored]

I'm ready to surrender to TFP.

Good choice.

Should I SLAM and continue the process until I stop seeing the dead algae floating on the bottom of the pool.

Yes. UNTIL YOU STOP SEEING DEAD ALGAE.
With CYA of 50, your target FC is 20.
Test and replace FC as often as you can. Every 2-3 hours would be preferred.
If you can only do morning and evening because of work, then test and replace FC every 2 hours, even late into the night.

You must pass all three criteria.

1. Pass OCLT.
2. CC<=.5
3. Clear Pool. Nothing, no dead algae, no live algae, no nothing. It should look like this...Link-->How Clear is TFP Clear?

 

[michaelwoosley]

Good choice.

haha

Yes. UNTIL YOU STOP SEEING DEAD ALGAE.

Yes, that was my mistake before!

With CYA of 50, your target FC is 20.
Test and replace FC as often as you can. Every 2-3 hours would be preferred.

No problem there. I'll test every 3 hours and top off as needed and update the TFP app.

If you can only do morning and evening because of work, then test and replace FC every 2 hours, even late into the night.

I'm not in this category, but what is a SAFE maximum chlorine ppm that one could get away with if they were away for an extended period of time... just in case?

You must pass all three criteria.

1. Pass OCLT.
2. CC<=.5
3. Clear Pool. Nothing, no dead algae, no live algae, no nothing. It should look like this...Link-->How Clear is TFP Clear?

Thanks for all your help

 

[PoolStored]

No problem there. I'll test every 3 hours and top off as needed and update the TFP app.

Every 2 hours is best.

I'm not in this category, but what is a SAFE maximum chlorine ppm that one could get away with if they were away for an extended period of time... just in case?

4 x (CYA/10). Your CYA is 50...so 20 FC.

 

[reggiehammond]

I'm not in this category, but what is a SAFE maximum chlorine ppm that one could get away with if they were away for an extended period of time... just in case?

Not totally clear what you're asking but here's two thoughts:

1) During normal operation, FC needs to stay above minimum for FC/CYA Levels at all times. No slip-ups.
2) During SLAM, FC needs to be at SLAM level as much as humanly possible. Do not increase over SLAM as this FC will be lost quickly for no gain, and you risk damage to pool liner, pool equipment, etc.

 

[michaelwoosley]

Not totally clear what you're asking but here's two thoughts:

1) During normal operation, FC needs to stay above minimum for FC/CYA Levels at all times. No slip-ups.
2) During SLAM, FC needs to be at SLAM level as much as humanly possible. Do not increase over SLAM as this FC will be lost quickly for no gain, and you risk damage to pool liner, pool equipment, etc.

Thanks for your feedback. I actually bumped the FC a few points above 20 a few times during my current SLAM as the outside temp was burning off the chlorine pretty fast. I thought I read somewhere in TFP that some SLAM's needed higher FC levels... leaving me to believe I was okay to do a few infrequent 20+ FC shots. If this isn't okay, please explain why so I can adjust my SLAM strategy. I'm thinking I'm a couple to three days out from performing my OCLT (water is crystal clean but I still have very random spots of dead algae that I'm vacuuming and backwashing out).
Thanks again!

 

[reggiehammond]

Make no mistake, the crystal clear water criteria for SLAM exit means no visible algae.

FC above SLAM levels is not recommended as it's not safe for pool equipment, nor does it provide any additional disinfecting power to eliminate algae. It's consumed quickly by UV, resulting in more $$ consumption for no value.

Stick with SLAM process levels per your CYA and practice POP (Pool Owner Patience.)

 

[michaelwoosley]

I reviewed all your previous posts, but didn't try to knit together what had been going on with previous attempts to SLAM and deal with the issues.
Given the saga - it would be well worth your while to invest the $8 per year in the paid version of PoolMath, Then you can save all of your history of testing and chem additions via the logs, AND we can then see it here also, to give a more complete picture of what has been happening - and avoiding repeated asking about your levels.

I get the sense that the previous attempts have been a bit episodic and the expectation has been for fast results, so SLAM's have perhaps ended prematurely. But even if not, dead algae can persist for much longer than one desires. It may not require more slamming, if one can repeatedly pass the OCLT. But it may take many days of brushing and vacuuming before it all gets flushed out (either by gong to waste or trapped in the filter). It does seem that as time has gone on, you are seeing less and less accumulation - which is good.

So - do those white clouds very easily puff up when disturbed? Then from your past history, the likelihood is it is dead algae that is still slowly settling out.
IF you've been very diligent about keeping your Cl level well in the target range, and still pass an OCLT, then it is just frustrating brushing/vacuuming as needed, that will get better - but longer than you would wish for.
IF you haven't been as up on it (days you just couldn't test, and might have dipped low on Cl), then you might still be having mini-algae blooms during those times, and what you are seeing is the result of the subsequent adds (that kill some of it) to get back up to the target.

As a side note - there are other things that can grow in pools. Most notably a biofilm of bacteria that forms on surfaces. The most common is one that is slightly translucent pink. Very harmless, but a little slimy, and of course not desired. An indicator is the bottom feeling slippery when you walk around in the pool. It forms as a film, and the top layers serve as a "skin" to protect the underlying ones from the chlorine. So even at SLAM levels, it may not be killed. It doesn't grow really fast, like algae can. The treatment for it is super easy - brush the pool every few days. That breaks up the "skin" and then even regular levels of Cl will take care of it. It will not though, dead or alive, accumulate in piles.

Sande005, good morning to you. I wanted to drop in and nip at your ear a bit. Since our last conversation (post, a few days ago), I've entered a SLAM. I've pretty much maintained the chlorine level between 14 and 24 over the past 5 days (I've had to step away a few times). I understand the necessity to meet the 3 requirements... crystal clear water, no visible evidence of organic matter and passing the OCLT. I'm kinda interested in how long this process COULD take. What's the norm? I'm okay with whatever it takes... with such small occurrences of dead algae, could my 20ppm be reduced to 15ppm and still be effective? if not, we'll drive on. I have the TFP app if you want to see a little background on what's been ongoing.
Thanks.

 

[ajw22]

There is no norm on the time the SLAM Process takes.

Could be days and could be weeks.

Too many variables to predict.

 

[michaelwoosley]

There is no norm on the time the SLAM Process takes.

Could be days and could be weeks.

Too many variables to predict.

Unfortunately, I can buy into that. At this current point in time, allow me to share a few things about my pool ...
1. pool water is crystal clear
2. I'm using the .5 accuracy testing method
3. The last 5 or 6 tests for CC have only showed a very slight hint of pink to no pink when tested
4. Since yesterday morning, I haven't seen anymore dead algae... and several days before only miniscule specs
5. Last night I performed my OCLT... my night reading was 20.5 and my morning reading reading was 16... a LOSS of 3.5
obviously a couple things went astray here... either my reading at the PM was incorrect, reading at the AM was incorrect (performed twice), or something organic consumed the chlorine overnight (I would of suspected some CC if that was the case)
I WAS EXPECTING TO CLOSE OUT THIS SLAM TODAY!
It was looking THAT good
MY plan is to continue the SLAM through today, OCLT tonight with hopes and dreams of a PASS tomorrow morning .
This has been a disheartening swim season for our family. The past 2 months have been non swim because of this issue. We have learned quite a bit and hope to carry it over to future swim seasons

 

[Newdude]

. We have learned quite a bit and hope to carry it over to future swim seasons

Minimum FC is lava. Remain free and clear of it at all times, also allowing some wiggle room for a particularly high UV loss day, a big storm, etc.

You are safe up to SLAM for your CYA level. Notice how much wiggle room you have above target range, and how little room for error there is below target range.



Adding 3 FC may last a week in April but only 3 hours mid day in the peak season. It's up to you to dose accordingly per the recent UV loss as it changes. The irony of frequent testing is more work makes less work when you just have a feel for where you should be right now.

 

[ajw22]

You can have algae with no CC showing in the tests. The CC is not a very reliable indicator.

You can swim in the pool if the water is clear and you can see the bottom of the pool when FC is below SLAM level. Then raise FC up to SLAM level when swim time is over.

 

[michaelwoosley]

Minimum FC is lava. Remain free and clear of it at all times, also allowing some wiggle room for a particularly high UV loss day, a big storm, etc.

You are hitting the nail on the head. My issue is that my spouse wants to participate in our pool maintenance program and with all of the "schools of hard knocks" out there, I am fighting a battle. She believes that the sanitizer reading should be 1-1.5ppm... because 75% of the Internet says so. For now and the foreseeable future, she is reluctantly allowing me to manage the pool with her throwing in some feedback here and there.
I do realize I need to keep the FC at a minimum of approximately 7ppm when not occupied by swimmer's. I promised my wife I'd lower it to 5 when we swim in it .

You are safe up to SLAM for your CYA level. Notice how much wiggle room you have above target range, and how little room for error there is below target range.

View attachment 606939

Adding 3 FC may last a week in April but only 3 hours mid day in the peak season. It's up to you to dose accordingly per the recent UV loss as it changes. The irony of frequent testing is more work makes less work when you just have a feel for where you should be right now.

Thanks Newdude for great explanation

 

[Newdude]

My issue is that my spouse wants to participate in our pool maintenance program and with all of the "schools of hard knocks" out there, I am fighting a battle

Have her read FC/CYA Levels and understand what oh so many miss that there is a relationship between the two.

Every pool she's ever been disgusted by almost certainly had too little chlorine, not too much. Including your own.

I was doing an insurance Slam recently and swam everyday for a week+ with FC in the 20s. (Perfectly fine with my 70 CYA). And then the following week it slowly drifted down. There was zero smells, irritations or even any idea that the FC was 'high'. The pool was stoopid clear though.