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Hi Dirk --

I have a similar setup with a Rebel cleaner. I have always found cleaners and hoses in the pool to be very annoying, so I just make it a practice of always taking it out before I swim. On my setup, out of my pump there is a 3-way valve, with one side going to floor drains, and the other to skimmer and cleaner, each of which has it's own shutoff valve. With cleaner in, floor drains are off, cleaner is wide open, and skimmer is always at about 70% closed. This works just fine, skimmer skims, and cleaner cleans, even with my pump at 80% where I usually keep it on cleaning cycle. Pump always runs 100% when swimming because we like our waterfalls, so with cleaner out, the 3-way goes to all open, and the cleaner valve gets turned off, so I'm skimming and pulling through floor drains. PB recommended against running the pump with the cleaner out and floor drains off, too much suction trying to go through the partially closed skimmer valve. It's kind of a pain doing it this way and I know it's bad for the cleaner, but it seems to work out okay. These are the pics I gave my wife so she knows what to do when I'm not home.

sweep1.jpg

sweep2.jpg
 
Our robot pretty much lives in our pool. To answer your question Dirk re: hair. Yes, absolutely long hair could get sucked in and tangled up in the robot. The suction isn’t that great though but it could get tangled around it like it can on a round hair brush. Honestly the worst I could see happening would be a shorter hair cut. Jeff and I have had many arguments over him eating the cord for the solar cover. If I catch him quick enough I can pull it out of his mouth. If he’s doing it behind my back I have had to spend a considerable amount of time untangling the 8m cord [emoji849] Last time I almost just cut it but managed in the end. If that were human hair you would just cut it. Mind you your daughter would need to be out of the pool lying backwards with her hair dangling down the side of the pool for this to happen. The robots stay against the wall and floor so there is really no issue in the pool unless you were leaning over the top of the robot with your hair dangling above against the wall of the pool in its path. A finger or other bodily part won’t be damaged. I’ve had a hand under him when he’s climbing and it’s not painful at all. There are 4 intakes to disperse the suction. My boys regularly swim with Jeff. My youngest thinks he’s his swimming buddy. Mum Jeff is chasing me. Mum Jeff is trying to eat me. Mum Jeff bit me (when Jeff touched him). The only time he comes off the wall or floor is when he’s right under them as they exit the slide. When he does come off he’s not sucking he’s blowing to get himself back on the wall. Do yourself a favour and buy a robot and if you’re still concerned tie your daughters hair up (better for swimming anyway).
 
Dirk said:
Still stewing on this... This directed to all you robot hawkers! News flash. Doesn't an active robot impose just as much, if not more, of an entrapment danger as any active drain or suction port? You think a kid, one old enough to be able to swim down to "play" with the robot, could overcome the weight of one, while his or her hair is wrapped up in the drive or brushing mechanisms? My six year old plays at the bottom of the pool. He weighs less than a robot! How long would he last with his "cool" board shorts sucked up into a robot vac? How much less do robots weigh in the water? Any less? Enough less that a six year old could tread water with one?

The fact that you all didn't even think of that while suggesting I switch to robot is my point! We pool owners all assume our equipment is safe, because they're being sold by big companies and installed by "professionals" and nobody's been killed by a vacuum yet so la dee da. Well, nobody gave a thought to the danger of a pool drain either, until that first kid drowned.

Suction vacs... robot vacs... even pressure vacs... accidents waiting to happen. They should not be in a pool when people are, not if there's any chance they can come on.
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I couldn’t agree more with what you said. BUT, you’re missing one thing. You don’t put it in the pool while the kids are swimming. And given the model of robot you get, you can toss it in the pool at night, and program it to run after midnight or so. That way if you over sleep and don’t remove it before the kids get in, no worries, it’s not running. And and and, you never have to worry about a valve not being turned, a pump burning up etc...

bdavis466 said:
You shouldn't be swimming with a robot in the pool. Do you leave your vacuum cleaner in the middle of your living room and plugged into the wall?
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jblizzle said:
Why yes, yes we do :mrgreen:
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:laughblue: :laughblue:
 
Arizonarob said:
I couldn’t agree more with what you said. BUT, you’re missing one thing. You don’t put it in the pool while the kids are swimming.
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No, I got that. But some people do. That was my ultimate solution and conclusion. Cleaners not in the pool with swimmers. The advantages and disadvantages of all the various types of vac cleaners aside, they all introduce risk of harm to swimmers, one that can easily be avoided with the same method: take 'em out when folks go in.
 
riley00dog said:
Our robot pretty much lives in our pool. To answer your question Dirk re: hair. Yes, absolutely long hair could get sucked in and tangled up in the robot. The suction isn’t that great though but it could get tangled around it like it can on a round hair brush. Honestly the worst I could see happening would be a shorter hair cut. Jeff and I have had many arguments over him eating the cord for the solar cover. If I catch him quick enough I can pull it out of his mouth. If he’s doing it behind my back I have had to spend a considerable amount of time untangling the 8m cord [emoji849] Last time I almost just cut it but managed in the end. If that were human hair you would just cut it. Mind you your daughter would need to be out of the pool lying backwards with her hair dangling down the side of the pool for this to happen. The robots stay against the wall and floor so there is really no issue in the pool unless you were leaning over the top of the robot with your hair dangling above against the wall of the pool in its path. A finger or other bodily part won’t be damaged. I’ve had a hand under him when he’s climbing and it’s not painful at all. There are 4 intakes to disperse the suction. My boys regularly swim with Jeff. My youngest thinks he’s his swimming buddy. Mum Jeff is chasing me. Mum Jeff is trying to eat me. Mum Jeff bit me (when Jeff touched him). The only time he comes off the wall or floor is when he’s right under them as they exit the slide. When he does come off he’s not sucking he’s blowing to get himself back on the wall. Do yourself a favour and buy a robot and if you’re still concerned tie your daughters hair up (better for swimming anyway).
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Thanks R, very helpful. Oh, Jeff, the vac. Took me a bit. However, you didn't convince me that robots are any less dangerous in the water with swimmers than any other vac. The actual form of the danger is slightly different from machine to machine, but still there.

It's not about how I'd untangle her hair, or have to cut it. It's about the amount of time between when the tangling occurs and when I can get to her to help her out of the water, with a 50lb machine somehow stuck to her head. And it's not just hair: hair, clothes, wrist doodads, necklaces, bathing suit straps, bathing suit draw strings, whatever. Is it prudent to apply how an adult would react to a "minor" entanglement to how a child would? I've seen this with my own eyes, the look and reaction of a person who thinks they are on the verge of drowning. Panic. In each case, their escape path was ridiculously simple. All I did was show it to them. They simply couldn't find it on their own. Most of my rescues were adult, trained scuba divers (five at last count, which is maybe why I'm overly sensitive to these issues). One was my kid. It's instant. It's involuntary. And its incapacitating. A child stuck to a vac is not going to calmly think his way out of it. It's fight or flight. And if he can do neither, that's all she wrote.

In the CNN article I linked above (a good read), they point out that drowning doesn't alway occur as the "splash, splash, flounder, help, help" event we might picture. Instead, you're looking at your phone or book or the grill, your kid can't get to the surface for air, panic, breath of water, unconsciousness. You won't hear or see a thing.

Sorry, this is beyond morbid, but you can choose to not read this thread if it bothers you. I'm just sharing information and my take on it. So until someone can convince me otherwise, it bears repeating:

Suction vacs... robot vacs... even pressure vacs... accidents waiting to happen. They should not be in a pool when people are, not if there's any chance they can come on.

I don't think you are atypical, at all. I think plenty of people allow their kids to swim with active or inactive cleaners. Mine has always been in the water with them, with only the flick of a switch to make it active. I'm not going to do that anymore. As parents, we all have to decide what risks to allow our children. But this one is too easy to avoid.
 

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I saw a mention of the danger of the vacuum hose separating at its section connections. A simple preventive measure is to buy a single hose of proper length and eliminate those individual sections. That doesn’t solve all your problems, but you can eliminate that one danger. You can also use a stainless steel screw to insure that the cleaner can’t be removed fron the hose without a screwdriver. Those two simple steps deal with the most likely dangers.
 
chiefwej said:
I saw a mention of the danger of the vacuum hose separating at its section connections. A simple preventive measure is to buy a single hose of proper length and eliminate those individual sections. That doesn’t solve all your problems, but you can eliminate that one danger. You can also use a stainless steel screw to insure that the cleaner can’t be removed fron the hose without a screwdriver. Those two simple steps deal with the most likely dangers.
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Two excellent, useful ideas. Thank you!

They go along with what I was contemplating about the manufacturers' culpability for this risk. They put some effort into making a suction port's safety flap difficult to open. Pretty much impossible without a tool (I use a quarter). But they put no thought to the way the sections go together, the way the hose connects to the vacuum head, the totally exposed suction hole in the bottom of the vacuum head, and the way the hose connects to the vacuum port.

I can't take an aspirin without the "combination" to the container, but no such safeguards are applied to a vacuum hose connected to a 3HP water pump! Why will someone have to get seriously injured (or worse) before they'll do something about this hazard?

I wonder if the organization that worked so diligently to get the laws for drains enacted has ever given any thought to this...
 
toofast said:
All I gotta say with no disrespect ..if you let your kids swim with your robot in the pool you're not thinking right.
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None taken. The common consensus on this board for swimming with robots in the pool has been that the only risk is to premature failure of the robot. I searched post after post here on the topic before our pool was completed. I also called the Dolphin distributer in Australia. If I have missed something then I will happily remove Jeff before anyone swims. My profession is in child accident prevention. You will see me here constantly advocating for adequate pool fencing and proper supervision.
 
Dirk, I've been following this thread for a couple days, and recently was subjected to how much panic can limit ones thought process.

I experienced my own panic of chocking. There were two people in the house with me, one was preparing to leave right when I stuck a large chunk of watermelon in my mouth and started to chew, I was being called to the door to say goodbye when I thought I had chewed a sufficient enough amount to swallow, after all this watermelon was very soft. I was wrong, I ran to the sink to try and cough it up, with no success. I tried to scream to them, but no sounds were coming out. I started pounding on the countertop to get their attention. A few moments later they looked around the corner perplexed, asking me what was wrong. Not sure if I was pointing at my opened mouth or what but they did see the panic on my face. I pounded on the countertop a couple more times, and somehow rasped out a somewhat audible "I'm chocking!". Within the seconds they were rushing to me I managed to cough up the lodged watermelon.

This scared the b'geezus out of me. I do believe I was moments away from passing out. Afterwards, I was reminded of all the times I've read and watched about preforming the Heimlich maneuver on yourself. But there I was ... at an extra high countertop and because of my panic, I had forgotten what I should do. I'm putting a reminder in my calendar to a few times a year to refresh my memory on how to do it to myself, and I now know that the universal sign for chocking is to place hand on your throat and not pointing your finger to your opened mouth.

I fully understand your concern to keep your children safe, and this thread has made me more aware of the potential dangers with vacuums. THANKS!
 
You mean, that just happened? Yikes. Either way, glad you're OK.

Some instincts make sense, based on natural selection. Fight or flight. Fear of fire. Fear of the dark. Do what wives want. Etc. But why do we lose our mind at other times? Why do some people faint from fear? Or why do we lose our mind when we lose our air? How did those traits survive evolution?
 
sktn77a said:
If you're that worried, install one of these covers over the vacuum wall attachment (in place of the spring loaded attachment) and buy a robot:
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I'm sorry, I don't understand this solution. Are you saying the spring-loaded flap in one of your pictures is a better, safer device for a suction port? Pretty much looks like what I have, only easier to open. Or are you suggesting I screw that perforated cover over my suction port? How would one connect the hose? There are much more effective ways to defeat a suction port, temporarily or permanently. So not sure where you were going with that, either.

Or is this another "Buy a robot" solution? Which I've already debunked...
 

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