What is stronger, a lemon or a belly?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
JoyfulNoise said:
Air craft engines have whole turkeys thrown into them to simulate birds strikes. Turns out that a 15lbs Butterball does a pretty good job of helping the engineers induce the various failure modes causes by a direct bird strike....of course, a Pratt & Whitney engineer did reveal to me that they learned quite quickly that you have to defrost the bird first or else the test results are not meaningful....
Click to expand...

I frequently have tomatoes and dirty socks thrown at me....what do you think they are testing?
 
PoolguyinCT said:
No I won’t share, a high profile Connecticut case, easy to find.
It would be sickening and disrespectful debate or converse its demerits.
Click to expand...

I didn't ask that well. I meant can you share any ideas about how to make a suction port safer, based on that case, other than removing the port. Clearly, for a child to drown, something was not done correctly or something was neglected. I know how to remove the threat of my suction port. I'm looking for ways to maintain it in as safe a manner as possible. I had to discover on my own that my port was dangerous as the contractor left it to me. Luckily that didn't cost me anything precious. I'm looking for any other dangers I've yet to think of, which would necessitate solutions I've yet to try.
 
bdavis466 said:
I frequently have tomatoes and dirty socks thrown at me....what do you think they are testing?
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, that would your girls and they’re testing daddy’s patience .... and I know for a fact that your crumple like wet cardboard when they give you those big sad-eyes with the hand out for daddy’s credit card ....
 
Just curious as to why you feel the need to "test" how much damage could be done by the suction port... don't you already know it's a danger?

I know you are concerned that you will forget to put the vac back in the pool... when you take it out of the pool, is there a part of it that you could put in your path to get back in the house so you would have a visual reminder to put it back in?

No matter what devices or deterrents one has in place, there is NO substitute for competent adult supervision when it comes to the safety of children any where, but especially in and around a pool.
 
Winnie-the-Pool said:
Just curious as to why you feel the need to "test" how much damage could be done by the suction port... don't you already know it's a danger?
Click to expand...

Of course.

Here's what I was trying to do, in my ever-over-thinking way. My skimmer/vac balancing valve is actuated. It's set to run 100% vac or 100% skimmer. The premise is that child contact with an exposed vacuum port or vacuum hose, running 100%, would do some damage, or a whole lot worse. I wanted to adjust the actuator to 100% skimmer at one end of the valve throw, and some sort of blend at the other end, like 75% vac and 25% skimmer. The question was, if contact occurred at the hose end, and it was blocked during vac mode, would the 75-25 split be enough to "route" the suction to the skimmer, enough to allow release, or at least minimize damage, at the hose end. Similar to how two drains work together to make each safer. Or would 90-10 be enough? Or do I need to go 50-50?

So the rigamarole was: how does one test the end of the vac hose to see if it'd suck the guts out of a human or not (to put it bluntly). Yes, any contact is dangerous, and I doubt any flow balance between skimmer and vac would make the system entrapment-free. But I do supervise my kids very closely, and if one of them was trapped underwater, I'd get their quick enough. But I couldn't get there fast enough to prevent evisceration, that'd happen in a split second.

I know I can't make my suction port accident-proof. I'm seeking to make it evisceration-proof, if such a thing is possible. And that's what I was hoping to test, without sticking the end of the hose to my hand, or my belly. At least not at first. If I can stick a peach to it, and it'll vacuum my pool well enough, I win! But that's not likely. How high can I push the vacuum force before it'll be deadly? And how will I know?

I've already got three layers of protection on that port: the safety flap, my supervision, and it's not active during swim time. I'm looking to add another layer. I've come to the conclusion, by working it out with you all, that removing the vac hose during swim time would add another layer. So this thread was helpful.

To your reminder system. Yes, I will put something in place. We're all pretty good at "pool toy put away time" after each swim. The hose laying there would be obvious. But if I forget, the 75-25 split will also serve as a way to keep from deadheading my pump. If it also adds yet another layer of safety for the kids, so that I can get to them, stuck to the port somehow, before they get their brains removed, then that is something to pursue (IMO).

And just to belabor, the 75-25 split I'm now trying out necessitated quite an increase in RPM, because of the "wasted" suction now applied to the skimmer during vac time. If I can achieve the level of desired safety with an 80-20 split, or 90-10 split, then that'd be good. I run that vac every day of the year, so it's worth knowing. But if it takes 50-50 to make it safe, then I'll do that, or I'll give up on this safety layer. Again, how do I test for desired safety?

This question is in left field, I acknowledge. But "get a robot," or "remove your suction port," and the like, is not what I was asking. Appreciated, but not what I was asking. I'm looking for a reliable test for evisceration, not how to eliminate the suction port.

I'm guessing somebody's done this. They had to test all the dual-drains and equalizer port solutions, didn't they? Or maybe nobody ever did...
 
Well as I have stated before, mine is at least 75% to the VAC and as soon as you put your hand over it the suction pulses and it's easy to release. If you are concerned, test it yourself with someone at the equipment that can turn it off if needed. But I do not think you will have a problem because the suction will always come from the path of least resistance which will be the 25% or so pumped from the skimmer.

I have my valve set up with mechanical stop such that it cannot put the VAC on 100% suction.

Mine is only a two speed pump, so I run on high and generally try to use as little flow through the cleaner as possible so that I get better skimming action.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thanks Jason, I'm gonna work up the nerve (or reduce the RPMs) to give it a go.

- - - Updated - - -

JoyfulNoise said:
But that’s what you have...a suction port ....
Click to expand...

OK, ya got one out of me, troll, that's all for tonight! ;)

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, maybe more than one. I'm now picturing Matt, Winnie and Jason all PMing each other to see how long they can keep me going!! Scoundrels!!
 
Dirk, Just to be clear I was in NO way insinuating that you would shirk your supervision responsibilities. It's just my better safe than sorry mindset.

But you gave me an idea for a great invention... problem is I'm not sure how many folks would be as concerned as you to make it worth developing.
 
Winnie-the-Pool said:
Dirk, Just to be clear I was in NO way insinuating that you would shirk your supervision responsibilities. It's just my better safe than sorry mindset.

But you gave me an idea for a great invention... problem is I'm not sure how many folks would be as concerned as you to make it worth developing.
Click to expand...

Oh, I didn't take it that way. I don't think it can be said enough, and everyone needs a reminder. If a 14-year-old article and CNN are to be believed, close to 90% of child drownings occur while kids are being supervised! So that would indicate that even those of us who think we are supervising properly, probably aren't. So say it often, say it loud!

CNN.com - Report: Most children who drown are supervised - May 27, 2004

Invention? Do share!
 
What you need is a some form of tapered perforated tube device which can slide into the suction side port or hose, which then also has a large perforated dome over the end which allows for a larger intake so no easy way to trap parts of your flesh.
 
I don't understand why the spring loaded flapper isn't safe enough. Its difficult to open with the pump off and nearly impossible to open with with it on...there are several that snap into the closed position and require a tool to open them
 
:brickwall: Dirk Dirk Dirk. You and I (And most of this board) have gone over this before with you. And if you remember, I even ran “tests” on my setup to help ya out with settings.

With that being said, I can give you the “skin” answer directly from a source, ME.
My valve is set to 75% vac/ 25% skimmer. I frequently jump in the pool to change out my collection basket on my suction side port hose while the pump is running. (I have two baskets, so I just swap out the whole canister on the hose)
With my pump running at 1700 rpm, I sometimes loose grip of the hose whilst juggling everything underwater, and the hose ends up stuck to my arm, belly, ribs, whatever, and I pull it off with ease. I one time changed it out in the morning when my pump was running at 2500rpm, and besides having to explain to my wife where the hickey came from on my ribs, no damage was done. (Although my wife did look at me with a squirrelly eye for a few days)

So to make yourself feel better, set your valve to 50/50, and you can crank it up higher if you need to while you’re watching the pool. OR, to be completely “safe”, get a robot like Matt said, and put away the hose. Otherwise we’ll keep going round-n-round on this subject.

Still love ya dude!! :mrgreen:
 
Sorry, I guess I don't remember. Was that in one of my threads? I've been thinking about this for a while, so it's quite possible. I just now got to adjusting the actuator. I'll see if I can find that former discussion. Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, Rob and I did discuss the actuator adjustment in a previous thread. Thanks for remembering what my feeble brain didn't:

Adjusting Actuator from 100-100 to 100-80

I'll use what you all helped me with in this thread and that one and make my pool all that much safer. Thanks!
 
bdavis466 said:
I don't understand why the spring loaded flapper isn't safe enough. Its difficult to open with the pump off and nearly impossible to open with with it on...there are several that snap into the closed position and require a tool to open them
Click to expand...

Two reasons:

Yes, it's quite safe when it's closed, pump running or not. But when the hose is attached, the other end of the hose is a suction port, and fully exposed! The hole under the Rebel is one. And every section of hose is pretty easy to pull apart. So in essence there are multiple suction ports all along the length of the hose that are way less safe than the flap. My 6-year-old is quite strong enough to separate the sections.

With the pump running, if the hose comes off the wall fitting the flap will snap shut. Safe. But it's pretty easy to hold the flap open with one hand and pull the hose out with the other, exposing the suction port (I've done it often). And while the flap itself would deter skin sealing to the port, it's still possible to get fingers or hair sucked up.

Both of those issues can be avoided by removing the vac hose from the port while people are in the water, which is what I've concluded from this thread is what I'm going to do...

This all might seem like overkill to some of you. That's fine. But I believe this is just the kind of thing that is overlooked that can cause injury in a pool. Even if it's just a welt. My daughter had a bad experience in water when she was a child, and to this day doesn't enjoy swimming. I believe the two are related. The joy of it was ruined for her because of an oversight on my part. It's not just about keeping my kids alive.

I've given this much thought (obviously!), and I've taken steps to address this danger. But I can't help but wonder: how many pool owners out there allow their kids in the pool with the vacuum running? How many leave the hose attached 24/7? They know their port is compliant, safety flap and all, but have overlooked this other potential risk. I'm guessing the number is really high.
 
Still stewing on this... This directed to all you robot hawkers! News flash. Doesn't an active robot impose just as much, if not more, of an entrapment danger as any active drain or suction port? You think a kid, one old enough to be able to swim down to "play" with the robot, could overcome the weight of one, while his or her hair is wrapped up in the drive or brushing mechanisms? My six year old plays at the bottom of the pool. He weighs less than a robot! How long would he last with his "cool" board shorts sucked up into a robot vac? How much less do robots weigh in the water? Any less? Enough less that a six year old could tread water with one?

The fact that you all didn't even think of that while suggesting I switch to robot is my point! We pool owners all assume our equipment is safe, because they're being sold by big companies and installed by "professionals" and nobody's been killed by a vacuum yet so la dee da. Well, nobody gave a thought to the danger of a pool drain either, until that first kid drowned.

Suction vacs... robot vacs... even pressure vacs... accidents waiting to happen. They should not be in a pool when people are, not if there's any chance they can come on.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply