VGreen 1.65HP Programming

[Skypalace]

I posted yesterday Pentair Motor replacement & control Q but did a bunch of research, I need to replace the 1HP full rated 1.65 S.F. motor for my Pentair WFE-4 WhisperFlo pump.

I've ordered the Century VGreen 1.65HP variable speed motor model EPM16SQ which is the almond version of the ECM16SQU. My math shows the motor replacement should have a payback (versus the single speed) in a year or so, but going to a full IntelliFlo pump replacement would not pay back within a say 5 year lifespan.

I'm curious about programming the VGreen with my Pentair EasyTouch4 controller.

Right now with single speed pump, controller is just turning on/off the 240v relay so it's power on/off to the motor. What I'd LIKE is to have the ability to run different programs in Spa or Spillway mode vs. Auto Pool filter mode - I'd like full rpm in Spa and Spillway mode without down-stepping rpm over time, but for pool filter mode, after the prime is done then run it in reduced rpm mode, perhaps with a step-down over time.

I see two ways to program it according to the VGreen User Manual. (also attached), which for some reason has a totally different and less-straightforward control panel, UI and programming model than the VGreen 85 or 270, at least according to these docs that I got from the Regal/Century Website (manual links on right hand panel)
1) (the easy way that I know how to do) is to run motor at full speed for 60 (or 120 minutes, only seems to take full hour durations) and then step down, perhaps to a slightly lower rpm after 60 minutes, then 60 minutes later do it to say half rpm, which should use about 1/4 the current / kwh.

2) (that I don't know how to do with the EasyTouch) is use the digital inputs on the motor, looks like holding +12v low on pins 1-4 (or using 24vAC +-20%) on pins 1-4, allows it to go directly into programs 1 through 4, so I could have different programs for Pool vs. Spa and Spillway (I can use Spa for Spillway). What I don't know how to do is both wire and program the EasyTouch controller with relays to do what I want. However, the manual is confusing. Figure 4 on Page 11 shows 5 pins on the 'digital connecter' (pins 1-4 plus ground) that I can use 13-30vac or 9-30vdc to set the pump into program modes 1 through 3 (or override). The picture in Figure 5 shows a header to the right that I assume is the 5-pin, and the actual RS485 digital connector in the middle, so I assume that Figure 4 refers to the 5-pin pushing header on the right, that I'd push in say 18awg wire? And all that's necessary is to have a replay hold power (ac or ac) to one of the 4 pins, and the appropriate pin always goes into the program (ie. program 1 for pin 1, program 2 for pin 2)? I get that, but not sure how to program or wire the EasyTouch 4 to do that with a couple of output relays, if there are spares (mine is the stock EasyTouch 4 with dual spa/pool control from a single motor w intake and output candy valves)

Also 3) Some mystery (to me) way using the RS485 true digital controller, no idea how to do this, even if I added the (as I plan to) protocol converter (not wireless, plan to hardwire it since it's close to ethernet) so that I can program the EasyTouch from my PC and use the smartphone app.

Has anyone successfully done this (#2 or #3), or something similar, to allow the EasyTouch to operate the variable speed aspects of the VGreen motor?

 

[guinness]

@Jimrahbe Any suggestions?

Real basic pool automation suggestions and pump replacement

I have a 15,000-gallon inground pool with the following: 1 pool light that works off a switch inside the house, which is not working at the moment, I suspect needs a new bulb. Intermatic basic mechanical timer, which needs to be replaced, not keeping time and until it stopped working...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sky,

Personally I would have gone with the IntelliFlo as not everything in life is about ROI... The EasyTouch is designed to control the IntelliFlo and makes control of the pump very simple and straight forward.. It is by far the greatest feature the EasyTouch has..

But.. I have yet to look at the manual, but it sounds to me like you should be able to use relay inputs to control the VGreen.. The question is.. how many unused relays do you have in your ET-4.. I suspect not many.. Lights take at least one and maybe two depending on how yours is wired. If your spa has a blower that uses up another one. If you have a booster pump for a cleaner, there goes another one.

The basic concept is to have a control voltage applied to the line input of the relay and the load side of the relay connected to the VGreen controller. You would need one relay for each speed you want to use. So instead of pushing a button on the pump, the ET-4 will "push the button for you" using a relay..

You can't use the RS-485 as the two units cannot talk with one another.

I'll take a look at the VGreen manual and see if I see any issues.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sky,

Page 24, Fig 7 of your manual shows how to connect up to 4 relays to the VGreen.. You program the pump with 4 pre-programmed speeds of your choosing. Then each relay can select one of those speeds.

Let me know what does not make sense..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Skypalace]

Thanks Jim, I understand how to do the Vgreen relay side, what I don’t understand is the programming side in the control center- ie. how to get the programs (like Spa or Spillway vs default Pool) to get a control voltage per program. I don’t want to use the aux relays as I want the variable speed to work with the standard Pool (want green program 1) and Spa (want green program 2). How do I get control voltage to the correct relay when those programs are running. Right now they both of course trigger the pump motor relay (for previous single speed InltelliFlo 1HP).

BTW have all 4 aux relays in use, Pool Light, Fiber Light, and blower. Actually Spa is on the poolside remote as button 1 so it’s possible that it’s using relay 1, I’ll check next time I’m home (not for a bit).

 

[Skypalace]

Merged threads - TFP Mod
Just installed a new Vgreen 165 in place of a 1hp Pentair WhisperFlo that was having problems. It won’t fire up - no green power LED. Running from a Pentair EasyTouch 4 Panel.

Checked wiring. When pump on, have 120v from green to L1 (black) and 120v from green to L2 (white) at pump. But only ~3v between L1 and L2, so I’m thinking that perhaps my previous WhisperFlo was wired 120v vs 240v, or my load center somehow has the same 120 pole on both sides.

Unfortunately I got the new pump installed 30 minutes before I had to leave for the airport, so didn’t have time to troubleshoot, the first thing I’ll check is the voltage coming out of the pump relay.

Just seems wired that in the 12/3 wiring (white, black, ground wire) coming from the relay to the pump, if it was wired 120v I’d expect 120v between black and white, not 120v between both black and ground, and white and ground. Wiring two 120v with the same phase polarity seems strange, but possible. Is this what I should expect from the EasyTouch wired as 120 vs 240v?

If I need to reword the panel as 240v, what do I need to do, there’s a confusing (to me) reference on page 27 of the manual re retiring the system control transformer from 120v to 240v. Confusing as it shows black, yellow, violet wires that seem the same as in the IntelliChlor transformer referenced elsewhere in the manual.

First thing I’ll do after I check the relay outputs is see if I’m getting 240v in, I assume so as I’ve got a double pole 40Amp breakerleading to it), but I’ll see what L1 and L2 at the load center rail inputs show.

 

[Skypalace]

Sorry edited above, said IntelliFo when it's a WhisperFlo I had and replaced.

 

[setsailsoon]

Sky,

I have the V-Green 1.65 and I control it with my Intellicenter using no Aux relays via the digital inputs. Here's how:

• Power the pump from your normal filter pump relay.
• Set the timer on the pump to run minimum rpm 24 hrs per day at whatever speed you want for Step 1. In my case it's 1700 rpm.
• When my gas heater fires I want it to run faster. So I ran the 24 vac from the gas valve in the heater to digital input for Step 2. Anytime the gas valve is open it kicks up to Step 2 rpm. Step 2 is set to 2600 rpm for 0 time.
• Did the same for Solar heat using the 24 vac signal on the actuator input that closes the bypass valve to run at Step 3 speed. Step 3 is set to 2600 rpm for 0 time.

The pump defaults to the internal timer if there is no digital input signal. If there is a digital input present it over-rides the internal timer. When that signal turns off the pump goes back to the internal timer speed. You can set a different speed for up to two additional digital inputs using any signal that's 12-30 v dc or ac. You can do this for two different speeds from your default speed and you can also select the "override" speed this way so you have a total of 3 digital input speeds. It's very easy to hook up this way.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Skypalace]

Thanks Chris!

One Q re how you do your heater - I like that idea. Do you have a chicken/egg re flow control to turn on the gas valve, or is the 1700 rpm still enough flow to allow the heater to operate? My heater (RayPak) won't fire if there isn't a sufficient flow (I assume it's an internal pressure switch), so I guess I could ensure that the minimum rpm is enough to kick it.

Do you know if there is a priority override on the VGreen digital inputs? I'd like to run the pump in high speed mode if the Spa is on. Let's say that's input 2, 3400rpm. And I have the heater on input 3, 2600rpm, as you do. Then when the spa is on and heating, both would be pulled high. I'd want it to act with a priority on 2 (or could swap inputs if it's the higher numbered that overrides) so that I get the Spa mode (3400rpm), whether or not the heater is on.

 

[Skypalace]

Re the wiring, I think I might have a relay problem or such. I recall measuring 246v between L1 and L2 at the pump when I was diagnosing the 'goofy mode' problems previously, see previous thread. Seeing that now I'm getting almost no volts, I can only guess that something weird is happening at the EasyTouch 4 load center, which I'll look to diagnose when I'm back in town.

My first candidate to check is input to the load center, ensure it's full 240v. I can't imagine this would have changed, but I do have a secondary generator panel in between (I have a whole house generator, but since this room is quite a ways away, there's a controlled second 'remote' generator subpanel that powers the pool panel and some other circuits in the back part of the house), so it's possible something is funky there. I'll test that both in generator mode and on mains power.

Assuming that's ok, I'll check the output of the double pole breaker for the pump motor. And third is the output of the relay. I haven't opened the high voltage part of the panel since it was installed, but I assume the 12/3 line going to my pump motor is directly off the motor power relay to the pump, which I can also verify w/ continuity checks at panel vs motor.

 

[guinness]

Do you know if there is a priority override on the VGreen digital inputs?

That's covered in the user manual, extract below:

NOTE: If more than one digital input (switch) is present, then the VGreen 085 will give priority to the highest number digital input. Therefore OVERRIDE has highest priority followed by STEP 3, then STEP 2, then STEP 1.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks Chris!

One Q re how you do your heater - I like that idea. Do you have a chicken/egg re flow control to turn on the gas valve, or is the 1700 rpm still enough flow to allow the heater to operate? My heater (RayPak) won't fire if there isn't a sufficient flow (I assume it's an internal pressure switch), so I guess I could ensure that the minimum rpm is enough to kick it.

Do you know if there is a priority override on the VGreen digital inputs? I'd like to run the pump in high speed mode if the Spa is on. Let's say that's input 2, 3400rpm. And I have the heater on input 3, 2600rpm, as you do. Then when the spa is on and heating, both would be pulled high. I'd want it to act with a priority on 2 (or could swap inputs if it's the higher numbered that overrides) so that I get the Spa mode (3400rpm), whether or not the heater is on.

I kick up the gas and solar heater to about 2600 rpm. More than needed to trip the flow switch on the gas heater but in both cases you need to be well into turbulent flow regime to get the optimum overall heat transfer rate. I haven't tested to see if there's a priority between steps 1 and 3 but override definitely has priority. You may want to try the over ride input. For the spa I have a separate booster pump for the venturi bubblers. Normal returns in the spa switch between 2600 and 1700 depending if the heater is on.

Chris

 

[Skypalace]

FYI, all fixed, I had 4 various issues getting it to work, some were lessons to me, but perhaps tips to others:

1) My multimeter was bad, reading high on AC. I started from scratch, AC input to the EasyTouch 4 was reading 260+ volts across the two hots, 137-ish for each hot lead. Bizarre. Grabbed another meter, was getting 246V and 124V, much better, tossed the bad meter.

2) I had a waterproof junction box with silicon-filled connectors, one of the positive leads to the motor had pulled out. Bizarre that the motor read 124v on that lug vs 0, that threw me off. Once fixed, both leads were 124v each and 246v across the two. Motor would now power up.

3) The motor kept faulting and not turning when I turned it on. Put a 5/8" allen wrench to it and the shaft was stuck. Ok, I messed up somewhere on the rebuild. Pulled entire motor/pump out, put it on the bench, put the allen wrench back on it, and it was a little stuck, but then started turning freely. Didn't pull it apart, looks like it just needed a little help up front. Reinstalled and it worked fine.

4) The motor started turning, but wasn't drawing a prime. At all. I double and triples checked everything to make sure I didn't have a suction/supply side leak. Finally poured (part of) a bucket of water into the pump to manually prime it. Closed the lid, started up, and it immediately started sucking water. Ok, lesson learned, it can't draw a prime when it's 100% air, needs some water on the impeller to get suction.

Two two tips for others, that are probably obvious to those that have done this before, but I learned the hard way:
1) After motor install and/or rebuild, turn the shaft manually, it might be a little stuck.
2) Ensure you manually prime by filling the pump housing with water before you start it up.

Two notes:
1) This motor (VGreen 165) is a lot louder than the stock Pentair Whisperflo it replaced. It seems to be the fan, getting a lot of airflow out the bottom of the control box area, which varies by rpm (ie. lourder as rpm increases). Probably a good thing, but original pump didn't have this, so it's overall louder.
2) This pump now has higher water flow than with the 1HP 1.65SR Pentair that it replaced - I'm seeing higher pressures and water flow, so can run it at less than full (3450) rpm and still get the same flow. So I'm running 3100rpm at startup (2 hours, program 1), then 2600rpm for heating (program 2).

 

[setsailsoon]

Sky,

Thanks for the follow up. Always nice to have. I've got several friends with different brands of VS pumps and they all make a fair amount of noise at high speed. Wouldn't say louder but definitely higher pitched. But anything from about 2600 rpm or slower is much more quiet. Incidentally, I've read there was one of our experts that reported the screw that hold the cover on can leak water in the wire connection compartment. I checked mine after severe thunderstorms and never got any water intrusion but the o ring is pretty tiny so I added a blob of UV resistant sealer on the screw. Might be a good idea for you to consider.

Good luck with your new motor!

Chris

 

[Skypalace]

Thanks Chris. My pool equipment room is indoors/enclosed (though of course well vented) so unless something goes seriously wrong, shouldn't need to worry about water incursion through the wire cover screw, or I've got much more serious things to worry about

 

[kevreh]

Sky,

I have the V-Green 1.65 and I control it with my Intellicenter using no Aux relays via the digital inputs. Here's how:

• Power the pump from your normal filter pump relay.
• Set the timer on the pump to run minimum rpm 24 hrs per day at whatever speed you want for Step 1. In my case it's 1700 rpm.
• When my gas heater fires I want it to run faster. So I ran the 24 vac from the gas valve in the heater to digital input for Step 2. Anytime the gas valve is open it kicks up to Step 2 rpm. Step 2 is set to 2600 rpm for 0 time.
• Did the same for Solar heat using the 24 vac signal on the actuator input that closes the bypass valve to run at Step 3 speed. Step 3 is set to 2600 rpm for 0 time.

The pump defaults to the internal timer if there is no digital input signal. If there is a digital input present it over-rides the internal timer. When that signal turns off the pump goes back to the internal timer speed. You can set a different speed for up to two additional digital inputs using any signal that's 12-30 v dc or ac. You can do this for two different speeds from your default speed and you can also select the "override" speed this way so you have a total of 3 digital input speeds. It's very easy to hook up this way.

I hope this helps.

Chris

I like that approach, very practical. Looking at putting the vgreen vs motor on my Hayward Superpump controlled with the Hayward ProLogic PLP4. Does anyone happen to know if the ProLogic can output low voltage signals to trigger different pump speeds? Is it purely a function of how many free relays I have?

 

[setsailsoon]

I don't know much about the PLP4 but you could schedule different speeds w any valve output signal or relay output. Or you could just grab the valve actuator signal from the actuator that powers the spa switching valve. Make it "step 2" and set the speed you desire. Then do the same for spillover etc.

Chris