SWG Downgrade

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T

tpneumat

0
Jan 3, 2015
12
Gotha FL
I posted this a while back. residential in-deck pool SWG--do they exist anymore?

To followup, I just ended up caving in and buying a CircuPool inline cell. It was a downgrade--requires more salt and more energy to make it work. Also, a few months later, I find my pool mostly drained and the culprit being the cell plastic lid shattered, apparently do to over pressurization. I called, the retailer, they directed me to the factory. I waited on hold a lot, but and finally got somebody who seemed to accept this as a flaw, and agreed to send me a new unit. Long story short, I've waited 2 weeks, they are having warehouse issues and cannot get a unit out to me or even tell me when it will be resolved.

At this point, I'm re-lamenting the death of my AutoPilot Cubby which worked brilliantly for probalby 10 years and was just much better overall in design. I'd like to either find a new controller that would be compatible with this cell https://www.poolsupplyunlimited.com/pool/autopilot-400-5-cubby-salt-cell-replacement/56678p1---seems I just need an output of "3.0 Amps @ 10 – 16 VDC" . Could it really be so hard to produce a device that can generate this? Maybe I'm going to have to find a transformer and wire it up to a raspeberry Pi. The old controller was so simple, having just one small board, a transformer, and 1 knob. Old manual attached.

Anyway, I'm not really having much hope here, just wondering why there seems to be a lack of innovation in the SWG pool world and why manufacturers don't see the benefits of an in-deck solution.


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Is your SWG powered when your pump is off?

The return outflow pipe the SWG is on is not pressurized.
 
That looks like an SJ series cell. It does require a higher salt level than most other cells. The Cirupool RJ series requires about the same salt level as the Pentair, Hayward and Jandy lines of SWG. The Circupool RJ series has many good reviews here and is a popular SWG for those without automation. The Circupool RJ series is slightly more expensive to purchase than the SJ series, but may wind up costing less over the life of the cell compared to the SJ series.
 
ajw22 said:
Is your SWG powered when your pump is off?
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Yes, SWG powers off with pump. Still not sure why it exploded. Worried it will happen again.
ajw22 said:
The return outflow pipe the SWG is on is not pressurized.
Click to expand...
Hrm, it is for me. My cell is after the pump and before going into the heater and/or into other things that could give back pressure like a caretaker or spa jet. Maybe this is the problem?
 
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proavia said:
That looks like an SJ series cell. It does require a higher salt level than most other cells. The Cirupool RJ series requires about the same salt level as the Pentair, Hayward and Jandy lines of SWG. The Circupool RJ series has many good reviews here and is a popular SWG for those without automation. The Circupool RJ series is slightly more expensive to purchase than the SJ series, but may wind up costing less over the life of the cell compared to the SJ series.
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Yes, CircuPool SJ-15 - I recon I should have sprung for better model.
 
Jimrahbe said:
T,

The cell is supposed to be the last item in the line.. You have it installed in the wrong place.

Jim R.
Click to expand...


It is installed after the filter, mostly like shown here except it is before the heater bypass. I don't have an ozone generator. Could putting it before the heater cause a problem? The tech I talked to suggested it would be impossible for water pressure alone to bust the lid and it was gas buildup.
1571834065252.png
 
Could putting it before the heater cause a problem?
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Ugh, did some more research on this and found that the reason to put after heater is so you don't destroy your heater with Chlorine. I guess the guy that installed my unit didn't know about this. And some are saying to put a check-valve to protect the heater from the chlorinator. This is just another reason why inline is inferior. I really just need to get my in-deck solution working again, somehow... In-deck means no undiluted chlorine is ever going through the plumbing.
 

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tpneumat said:
And some are saying to put a check-valve to protect the heater from the chlorinator. This is just another reason why inline is inferior.
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A tab chlorinator is different then a SWG.

You need a check valve before a tablet chlorinator. You do not need a check valve before a SWG. A SWG does not create acidic water when the pump is off that can backflow into a heater the way a tablet chlorinator does.
 
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Post a few pics of your equipment pad. Maybe someone will be able to provide you with a better location to install the SWG. As was already said - the SWG needs to be after the heater and doesn't need a check valve between the heater and SWG. The SWG is usually before the Caretaker IFCS water valve. Does your heater have a bypass plumbed in?

How many gallons in your pool? We recommend sized a SWG at least 2x the pool volume. Manufacturers rating are based on the SWG running 24 hours per day.

Please fill out your signature with your pool and test kit info, including pool volume (gallons) and equipment model numbers.

On your previous in deck SWG, where did the water flow come from? I would guess from the return flow from the equipment pad or its own separate pump and plumbing. If from the return flow from the pad, it's really no different than your present SWG - except you present SWG is at the pad, with easier access to wiring and the SWG itself.
 
tpneumat said:
So you don't agree with this guy in this video?
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Nope. Water does not flow backwards when the pump is running and when the pump is not running and the cell is not generating there is no chlorine to backflow.

Do as you wish. Checkvalve wont harm anything and is unnecessary. Just another thing to fail at some point.
 
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I suspect the swg isn't off when your pump is. I bet if you look into this further you may find the swg isn't powered down and the flow switch keeps it off which is not the way to have it. Just a possibility. Have seen this scenario more then once where the OP is convinced one way but actually wasn't. If it was an explosion it sure was small just enough to crack the cell open.
 
T,

The reason for a check valve is to prevent acid in the tablets from draining back into your heater when the pump is off.. Very acidic water is what destroys your heater not chlorine.. Since a salt cell has no acid, you do not need the check valve.

Jim R.
 
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wireform said:
I suspect the swg isn't off when your pump is. I bet if you look into this further you may find the swg isn't powered down and the flow switch keeps it off which is not the way to have it. Just a possibility. Have seen this scenario more then once where the OP is convinced one way but actually wasn't. If it was an explosion it sure was small just enough to crack the cell open.
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Appreciate your suggestion...I would think that too, however, I'm sure it goes off with the pump (lights go out and everything--total power down of box). After the system was installed a few months ago, it was NOT setup that way and I had to change it. Also, now realizing the "professional" put the inline system behind the heater, so now I have to move that.
 
proavia said:
Post a few pics of your equipment pad. Maybe someone will be able to provide you with a better location to install the SWG. As was already said - the SWG needs to be after the heater and doesn't need a check valve between the heater and SWG. The SWG is usually before the Caretaker IFCS water valve. Does your heater have a bypass plumbed in?

How many gallons in your pool? We recommend sized a SWG at least 2x the pool volume. Manufacturers rating are based on the SWG running 24 hours per day.

Please fill out your signature with your pool and test kit info, including pool volume (gallons) and equipment model numbers.

On your previous in deck SWG, where did the water flow come from? I would guess from the return flow from the equipment pad or its own separate pump and plumbing. If from the return flow from the pad, it's really no different than your present SWG - except you present SWG is at the pad, with easier access to wiring and the SWG itself.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I added more info about my pool to the signature, and hopefully can post more photos at some point, but I already have a good idea where I need to move the inline unit if I end up keeping it. I do have to put the inline before the caretaker as it would be impossible not to. My heater does have a bypass, but I generally don't bypass it since water goes through it pretty well either way, so I don't know what use the bypass is really (would have been useful to prevent damage from chlorinator ahead of it but that's got to change anyway).

The more I look into it and try to search on this, the more I realize just how much of a freakish anomaly my in-deck setup is. I adopted the system when I moved here about 3 years ago. I really knew almost nothing about pools or especially SWG at the time. The pool guy I had at first told me there is no way that AutoPilot system is going to work and started me on a regiment of chlorine tabs. One day, I looked a little closer at the cell, and saw that it was just scaled over. I googled a bit and then pulled it out of the deck, soaked it in muriatic acid, and everything started working. It worked solid for 2 more years, and I never had to add chlorine. Then, the cell failed (fins were finally burned down). I bought a new cell, and all was good again for a while, then the controller failed. It looked like an antique, so I expected that eventually.

To address your question, "where did the water flow come from". That is really why I'm on here posting about it and why I called my post "SWG Downgrade". The really cool think about this old in deck system is that there does not have to be water flow. It is setup just like this manual shows: 2019-10-23_20-25-00.png. Basically, sort-of like convection, the chlorination happens anytime and the process creates its own flow (suction/discharge). It does not have to happen during a pump run. Because of this, it doesn't have a timeline where it's got to get the job done. Instead, the cell just runs maybe 10-15 hrs a day, quietly and with low amps. There was a single % knob on the controller that simple set the percentage of the day that the cell runs, and it ran irrelevant to wether or not the pump was on or off. Having a small pool, I didn't need to run the pump for more than 4 hrs a day and all was fine. This saved a lot of energy too. After getting the inline, I had to run it for about double that or I could not produce enough chlorine, even though I have a unit rated at double my pool size. Correction on previous post, I actually have the CircuPool SJ-20 (there was free upgrade offer).

I sort-of understand why these in-deck systems are deprecated. It requires a special kind of porting to be setup in the pool during installation. However, I am still holding onto the fantasy that this is a better and more energy efficient solution.

Good news is that the factory has shipped me a new CircuPool unit that should arrive soon. I may or may not install it. I'm not quite ready to give up on firing up the In-Deck, gonna try some hacks. I'll report back on whether or not I am successful (and will post photos).

Thanks all for the concern and assistance!
 
Your old system is certainly an interesting concept. I can't get my head around how enough water flowed over the plates and returned to the pool to keep the pool chlorinated. But hey, if it worked.....

Much better you have the SJ-20 than the SJ-15 with a 10k pool. That 1.5 hp single speed pump uses quite a bit of electricity. If/when you need to replace it, consider going with a 2 speed pump (low runs at 1/2 spped - 1725 rpm - and uses about 1/4 the electricity as high speed) or a VS pump.
 

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