SWG and Pop Ups on Same Return

[vic49]

Close the waterfall and see where the water comes out.

The front wide part of the handle says "Off", rotate that towards the side that says Waterfall and then turn on the pump.

View attachment 433467

Man, you don’t know how much I appreciate the drawings and explanations. As soon as I’m back home I’ll do this. I don’t run the waterfall the whole time. It is on a different timer than the pump. I don’t recall water coming in from anywhere other than the pop ups, but I’m going to check to be sure. If that’s not a return on the deep end wall, what else could it be?

 

[TampaKathy]

No I’m not sure. If not a return, what else could it be?

My theory was an overflow pipe but you would have pvc sticking out of the ground in the grass probably near there where the water would go. Since you are in contact with the PB maybe you can just ask them if your only returns are the pop-ups.

 

[HermanTX]

You guys are helping me to learn all the ins and outs I tell ya! I’m not sure where it goes into the pool. I have 3 side main drains, 1 floor main drain, the waterfall, the pop ups, and there is 1 return (I think that’s what it is) in the deep end side wall.

The suction drains on the wall are for the waterfall and that other return pipe. It does not go through a filter so they put the suction on the wall to minimize picking up any debris. It seem strange that you have 3. Take a photo as they should be in a group.

You should have 2 main drains on the floor (or it could be a channel drain which looks like a single drain). take a photo of the bottom drain.

One idea - turn off your main filter pump - so there is no confusion on what is pushing water to the pool.
Then turn on the water feature pump = then as indicated by others - close the valve to waterfall and then find where that other return is coming out. Then turn the valve and that return should shut off and the waterfall should flow.

 

[JamesW]

The suction drains on the wall are for the waterfall and that other return pipe.

These would not be legal to use as suction, so I hope that they are not being used as suction.

 

[JamesW]

Suction fittings need to be certified for use on suction and the flow cannot exceed the rated flow.

 

[HermanTX]

These would not be legal to use as suction, so I hope that they are not being used as suction.

View attachment 433500

Agreed. That is why I suggested it should be a group. I have 2 on my wall that are about 18inches apart. So it was confusing that the OP said there were 3. Agree that they should not be single suctions in different places around pool.

 

[vic49]

The suction drains on the wall are for the waterfall and that other return pipe. It does not go through a filter so they put the suction on the wall to minimize picking up any debris. It seem strange that you have 3. Take a photo as they should be in a group.

You should have 2 main drains on the floor (or it could be a channel drain which looks like a single drain). take a photo of the bottom drain.

One idea - turn off your main filter pump - so there is no confusion on what is pushing water to the pool.
Then turn on the water feature pump = then as indicated by others - close the valve to waterfall and then find where that other return is coming out. Then turn the valve and that return should shut off and the waterfall should flow.

Here is a photo of the drain in bottom of pool and then two more photos of the side “drains” ?
One is by itself and the other two are near one another.

Are you sure this is a return? Can you feel water coming out of it ever? Do you have an overflow pipe near here?

 

[vic49]

These would not be legal to use as suction, so I hope that they are not being used as suction.

View attachment 433500

So when the waterfall is on but not the main pump, this is pushing out water. When the waterfall is turned off, no water comes out. Also when the main pump is on and pop ups working but no waterfall pump on, no water comes out of this.

 

[JamesW]

You can put the cell on the wall return line.

You will have to do some replumbing.

You will need to figure out how to balance the flow between the cell return and the in-floor cleaners.

What is the model number of the waterfall pump?

 

[HermanTX]

Here is a photo of the drain in bottom of pool and then two more photos of the side “drains” ?
One is by itself and the other two are near one another.

Thanks for the photos. You may want to confirm with the PB that the 3 wall drains are all connected to the suction to the water feature pump. The 2 that are together make sense but that 3rd one that is by itself is just unusual. I have a waterfall pump and just have the 2 wall drains as shown in 1 of your pictures.

Also, when you had just the water feature pump running - did you turn the valve between the waterfall and single return line? Was there a difference in force of flow out of the single return when the valve closed off the waterfall?

 

[proavia]

The shear descent isn't really a return - it's a water feature. Returns return water to the pool at a level below the water surface.

The PV3 IFCS uses a single MDX-R3 main FLOOR drain (they call it a debris drain) and the system also requires secondary suction sidewall drain. The single sidewall drain is connected to the floor drain to be VGB compliant.

https://www.1paramount.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PV3InstallManual.pdf

The 2 sidewall drains that are closest together (there is a minimum distance required) are connected and feed the second pump (the one without the filter).

The IFCS will be adversely affected by going to a smaller impeller or you would need to run the variable speed pump at a higher rpm to attain the necessary flow rate to adequately clean the pool. Running at a higher rpm with a smaller impeller would keep the pressure the same as it is now - defeating the purpose of using a smaller impeller in the first place.

To alleviate the SWG experiencing pressure fluctuations, it should be plumbed to the second pump. The SWG chlorinated water can be sent back to the pool via the single return or via the shear descent - thru the existing 3 way valve on that return line. This would require the least plumbing changes. There are other options, but they would require more extensive plumbing changes and the possible addition of a second (and appropriately sized - normal sized) filter - in addition to some plumbing changes to separate the SWG and IFCS. The IFCS main drain and the water valve need to be plumbed thru the same pump.

Hopefully you will receive a direction from the manufacturer and your PB will step up and fix it all free of charge.

 

[vic49]

Thanks for the photos. You may want to confirm with the PB that the 3 wall drains are all connected to the suction to the water feature pump. The 2 that are together make sense but that 3rd one that is by itself is just unusual. I have a waterfall pump and just have the 2 wall drains as shown in 1 of your pictures.

Also, when you had just the water feature pump running - did you turn the valve between the waterfall and single return line? Was there a difference in force of flow out of the single return when the valve closed off the waterfall?

I’m going to go out today when the sun is up and turn the valve as James W suggested and I will report back.

 

[vic49]

The shear descent isn't really a return - it's a water feature. Returns return water to the pool at a level below the water surface.

The PV3 IFCS uses a single MDX-R3 main FLOOR drain (they call it a debris drain) and the system also requires secondary suction sidewall drain. The single sidewall drain is connected to the floor drain to be VGB compliant.

https://www.1paramount.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PV3InstallManual.pdf

The 2 sidewall drains that are closest together (there is a minimum distance required) are connected and feed the second pump (the one without the filter).

The IFCS will be adversely affected by going to a smaller impeller or you would need to run the variable speed pump at a higher rpm to attain the necessary flow rate to adequately clean the pool. Running at a higher rpm with a smaller impeller would keep the pressure the same as it is now - defeating the purpose of using a smaller impeller in the first place.

To alleviate the SWG experiencing pressure fluctuations, it should be plumbed to the second pump. The SWG chlorinated water can be sent back to the pool via the single return or via the shear descent - thru the existing 3 way valve on that return line. This would require the least plumbing changes. There are other options, but they would require more extensive plumbing changes and the possible addition of a second (and appropriately sized - normal sized) filter - in addition to some plumbing changes to separate the SWG and IFCS. The IFCS main drain and the water valve need to be plumbed thru the same pump.

Hopefully you will receive a direction from the manufacturer and your PB will step up and fix it all free of charge.

The only problem I have with plumbing the SWG to come through the waterfall or the return connected to the waterfall, is that I will always have to run the waterfall to chlorinate the pool. What would be the more extensive option to plumb in the SWG?
I’m going out today to close the valve on that return line to the waterfall and see if water still flows through the return.

 

[vic49]

The shear descent isn't really a return - it's a water feature. Returns return water to the pool at a level below the water surface.

The PV3 IFCS uses a single MDX-R3 main FLOOR drain (they call it a debris drain) and the system also requires secondary suction sidewall drain. The single sidewall drain is connected to the floor drain to be VGB compliant.

https://www.1paramount.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PV3InstallManual.pdf

The 2 sidewall drains that are closest together (there is a minimum distance required) are connected and feed the second pump (the one without the filter).

The IFCS will be adversely affected by going to a smaller impeller or you would need to run the variable speed pump at a higher rpm to attain the necessary flow rate to adequately clean the pool. Running at a higher rpm with a smaller impeller would keep the pressure the same as it is now - defeating the purpose of using a smaller impeller in the first place.

To alleviate the SWG experiencing pressure fluctuations, it should be plumbed to the second pump. The SWG chlorinated water can be sent back to the pool via the single return or via the shear descent - thru the existing 3 way valve on that return line. This would require the least plumbing changes. There are other options, but they would require more extensive plumbing changes and the possible addition of a second (and appropriately sized - normal sized) filter - in addition to some plumbing changes to separate the SWG and IFCS. The IFCS main drain and the water valve need to be plumbed thru the same pump.

Hopefully you will receive a direction from the manufacturer and your PB will step up and fix it all free of charge.

 

[vic49]

The shear descent isn't really a return - it's a water feature. Returns return water to the pool at a level below the water surface.

The PV3 IFCS uses a single MDX-R3 main FLOOR drain (they call it a debris drain) and the system also requires secondary suction sidewall drain. The single sidewall drain is connected to the floor drain to be VGB compliant.

https://www.1paramount.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PV3InstallManual.pdf

The 2 sidewall drains that are closest together (there is a minimum distance required) are connected and feed the second pump (the one without the filter).

The IFCS will be adversely affected by going to a smaller impeller or you would need to run the variable speed pump at a higher rpm to attain the necessary flow rate to adequately clean the pool. Running at a higher rpm with a smaller impeller would keep the pressure the same as it is now - defeating the purpose of using a smaller impeller in the first place.

To alleviate the SWG experiencing pressure fluctuations, it should be plumbed to the second pump. The SWG chlorinated water can be sent back to the pool via the single return or via the shear descent - thru the existing 3 way valve on that return line. This would require the least plumbing changes. There are other options, but they would require more extensive plumbing changes and the possible addition of a second (and appropriately sized - normal sized) filter - in addition to some plumbing changes to separate the SWG and IFCS. The IFCS main drain and the water valve need to be plumbed thru the same pump.

Hopefully you will receive a direction from the manufacturer and your PB will step up and fix it all free of charge.

I sure hope this will be fixed by the PB. We have had some pretty extensive fixes through the first year already. Now we are at 15 months so who knows.

 

[ajw22]

I sure hope this will be fixed by the PB. We have had some pretty extensive fixes through the first year already. Now we are at 15 months so who knows.

I still think changing to the Aquapure cell is the easiest fix.

 

[TampaKathy]

Reading thru this I think my PB installed my SWG wrong too, grrrr. I have the Pentair IC60 and this is how that manual shows installation should be...should have a bypass loop...I wonder if that would work with yours? My PB will be hearing from me on Monday, lol.

 

[vic49]

You can put the cell on the wall return line.

You will have to do some replumbing.

You will need to figure out how to balance the flow between the cell return and the in-floor cleaners.

What is the model number of the waterfall pump?

The model on waterfall pump is FHPM.75

 

[vic49]

I still think changing to the Aquapure cell is the easiest fix.

Man, you don’t know how much I appreciate the drawings and explanations. As soon as I’m back home I’ll do this. I don’t run the waterfall the whole time. It is on a different timer than the pump. I don’t recall water coming in from anywhere other than the pop ups, but I’m going to check to be sure. If that’s not a return on the deep end wall, what else could it be?

Ok I flipped the waterfall valve to off. Prior to turning off and having only the waterfall pump on, water comes out of the return. Once I turned the valve to waterfall to the off position, a TON more water pressure comes through that same wall return.

 

[vic49]

On that 2nd pump - it has 2 lines = one says waterfall and other says returns - where does the returns line go into the pool?

The return is on the side wall in deep end. There is a photo in previous posts somewhere.