So this just happened....

[JoyfulNoise]

Matt,

I'm thinking about the choice to leave the robot in or take it out. Seems to me you have two possible root causes. One may have been failure of the motor brushes the other may have been seal failure and there could have been several places this could happen. If the real root cause was a seal failure seems like they often fail when pressure cycles. Leaving on the unit in and only removing for basket cleaning might actually have a longer lifespan. I'm curious what your thoughts are on what seal actually caused the demise and if the motor brushes failed about the same time or if they were the initial failure. I will be going the S200 route on my next pool and will still install the suction pipe fitting in case I have to go to a suction cleaner. A while back somebody asked a question about eliminating the suction fitting if he was going robot. I though it would be best to eliminate a penetration in the pool and a potential suction plumbing leak source. Your experience has completely changed my mind on that.

Once we get down the road on the pool I want to look at a home-made conversion for the robot to brush-less motor and pool water durable seals. This isn't rocket science when I compare to sealing technology we use in 15,000 psi well heads. Should be doable and may need a little bit of 3d printer adapter parts. Maybe even a more durable control board that's configurable for pool shapes and depths based on rPi or Arduino. I think this would be fun to work on. Right now I'm focused on getting trusses installed so this will have to wait...

Chris

Chris,

Lots to consider here. I think water got into the case during the winter. Looking at these seals and how they fit to the body of the motor assembly, I think it is very easy for low temperature water to shrink the plastic enough to make a seal give out. There are 5 passive seals and 3 rotational shaft seals. I think the two seals around the brass bushing that holds the impeller shaft is the most likely culprit. But, there is also the main body seal of the motor assembly which is only clamped together using a few plastic clips, no screws. So that is another design choice on the part of Maytronics that makes these motors susceptible to water incursion.

I also find it extremely strange that they put the control board inside the motor assembly but it has NO conformal hydrophobic coating on it to make it waterproof. Parylene coatings have been around the PCB industry for many, many, many decades. It is a standard Mil-Spec coating used on all electronics hardware that needs to operate in a potentially hazardous environment - dust, water, extreme temperatures. Once a PCB is manufactured, it is simple to do a parylene that is totally transparent, thin filmed and makes the components completely hydrophobic. Considering that Maytronics treated these boards as replaceable (no rework or repair), it makes little sense to skip a conformal coating except to save a few pennies in cost on each board.

I also agree with you revisiting a suction line. It is really a very low risk incursion into the pool shell and it gives the pool owner the flexibility to run a manual vacuum or a suction side cleaner without having to take out a skimmer. If an automated cleaner dies, what recourse does a pool owner have for manual vacuuming?? You'd have to get a skimmer plate and fiddle around with those things popping off constantly. A wall port to allow a person to vacuum is cheap to add to a new installation and gives the pool owner much more flexibility.

In a perfect world, I would do as you suggest - own both a robotic cleaner AND a high quality suction side cleaner. The suction cleaner can be left in the pool during those times of the year when it's not in heavy use to just skitter around collect debris as well as add some good hydraulic circulation by drawing water from the bottom of the pool. When the swim season gets busy, then a person could switch over to a robotic cleaner and use that for spot cleaning as needed. Also, having a suction port lets a person vacuum to waste more easily when the occasion calls for it.

Since your pool will exist in a screened cage (typical FL pool ...), your debris load is going to be very low. Therefore I would suggest that the S200 is probably the most robot you would ever really need. In fact, I would say that it is going to last a long time because (a) you will not need to vacuum your pool frequently, and (b) the debris load your pool does receive will likely be fine particulates more so than leaves/flowers/etc. So if you own both a robot and a suction cleaner, your pool should be easy to keep clean.

Feel free to reach out if you want to discuss ideas for making a robot better. I believe there are lots of things that Maytronics could do to make their motors more waterproof but they choose not to simply because there is no profit to be made on robots that have long lives ...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Post Mortem

SO I opened up the motor assembly and ...

IMG_4838.jpeg

• JoyfulNoise
• May 16, 2022

IMG_4839.jpeg

• JoyfulNoise
• May 16, 2022

So water got into the box again ... sadly disappointing. There's a pretty significant leak somewhere and it's hard to tell. My guess would be the brass bushing on the water pump motor but that's only a guess. Also, the drive motor will not turn freely at all so I think its probably bound up and shot as well. There's really no repairing this robot without dumping well over a hundred dollars into it for a new drive motor and, even then, there's a compromised seal letting water in. I could try to track that down with some kind of submerged water test in a bucket but, honestly, that's a huge waste of my time.

I think I'm ready to let this one go ... Perhaps I'll just box it all up and put it away in a cabinet. Maybe someday I'll get the time to give it another try.

 

[red-beard]

There are people that sell the complete assembly for around $229. I expect they are used...

 

[red-beard]

Dolphin: Motor Units

Dolphin Motors - Maytroincs robotic pool cleaner

www.amazon.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

There are people that sell the complete assembly for around $229. I expect they are used...

Dolphin: Motor Units

Dolphin Motors - Maytroincs robotic pool cleaner

www.amazon.com

The ones that are $299 are for a different style Dolphin. The ones that are $450 are the ones that are compatible …. BUT ….

You have to be really really really careful about 3rd Party online sellers of “refurbished” Dolphin robot stuff. Unless they are a certified Dolphin reseller, then there is no warranty. Also, every robot motor has a unique 10-digit serial number that controls what features are unlocked for the robot by the app. If you do not get a valid 10 digit serial number, then the motor will be a brick when you try to operate the robot. Maytronics is pretty serious when it comes to their stuff and if you try to buy after-market refurbs that are not authorized, they will not help you at all.

 

[Orion7319]

The ones that are $299 are for a different style Dolphin. The ones that are $450 are the ones that are compatible …. BUT ….

You have to be really really really careful about 3rd Party online sellers of “refurbished” Dolphin robot stuff. Unless they are a certified Dolphin reseller, then there is no warranty. Also, every robot motor has a unique 10-digit serial number that controls what features are unlocked for the robot by the app. If you do not get a valid 10 digit serial number, then the motor will be a brick when you try to operate the robot. Maytronics is pretty serious when it comes to their stuff and if you try to buy after-market refurbs that are not authorized, they will not help you at all.

Your experience reiterates my thoughts on these. Just buy the cheapest ones you can find with the minimum feature set that you need. Automation can be added after the fact. I’m sure that if you have the booster pump ect already in place a pressure side cleaner is probably a lot cheaper and more durable option. In my situation I don’t have the plumbing in place for a pressure side cleaner and I doubt a suction side cleaner would really be up to the task to clean my pool (not to mention how fiddly that would be). What would be useful is more comparisons of the actual cleaning performance of these bots, particularly those that are cheaper then the s200.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Your experience reiterates my thoughts on these. Just buy the cheapest ones you can find with the minimum feature set that you need. Automation can be added after the fact. I’m sure that if you have the booster pump ect already in place a pressure side cleaner is probably a lot cheaper and more durable option. In my situation I don’t have the plumbing in place for a pressure side cleaner and I doubt a suction side cleaner would really be up to the task to clean my pool (not to mention how fiddly that would be). What would be useful is more comparisons of the actual cleaning performance of these bots, particularly those that are cheaper then the s200.

Exactly!

Buy. The. Cheapest. Robot.

That needs to be the recommendation to anyone looking at robots. If you have a complicated pool with depth and lots of weird freeform features, etc , then get the cheapest M series. If you have just a regular pool without a lot of fancy curves, get the cheapest S series available. Then baby the heck out of it and keep it running for as long as possible. Cord replacements are worth it and easy to do. Tread replacements and brushes too. All cheap and easy to replace DIY (you only need to know how to turn a screwdriver). Even a power supply might be worth the cash but if you are careful with the robot, the power supply should last forever (don’t leave it out in the rain, sun and heat). Once the motor dies … buy a new robot, it’s not worth fixing or replacing.

And a side note - my suction cleaner works really well in my pool. It’s a good cleaning option for me but I recognized not for everyone especially people that have pools without dedicated suction ports or pressure cleaner lines.

 

[red-beard]

The thing I like about the one I have is the "power stream" which is a directional water jet to help move the robot and to help it climb walls. The S300 and the Triton PS and the Proteus DX4 have this. Going a step lower, you lose the wall climbing/cleaning feature. The S200 doesn't have the openings, but otherwise looks the same.

I agree that $300-450 is too much for the repair part with no warranty. But it is an option. I think the refurb units with a 1 year warranty for just under $800 seem to be the way to go. If you want the S300, you pay a premium!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

S200’s climb walls and do the water line too. It’s also used the power stream to thrust turn. The only differences in the 200 to 300 is in the connectivity and cleaning schedule features. Also the S300i has the integrated coarse/fine filter basket whereas the S200 only comes with the coarse filter panels.

This is what I really HATE about Maytronics - these robots are all basically the same inside. The only thing they vary are the features and colors and few accessory type items but the prices go from $700’ish to nearly $1,400 ! It’s seriously not worth it.

Someone independent needs to buy a bunch of these robots and literally take them apart to show people just how similar they all are on the inside. They could do a YouTube video and I guarantee Maytronics will issue a Cease & Desist letter within 48 hours

 

[red-beard]

My mistake. I looked at the pictures and from the front you cannot see any of the water vents. The top shot shows them. So, S200 or equal is the way to go. That runs the same price as the Triton PS and the Proteus DX4.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

My mistake. I looked at the pictures and from the front you cannot see any of the water vents. The top shot shows them. So, S200 or equal is the way to go. That runs the same price as the Triton PS and the Proteus DX4.

And according to the Dolphin website, the S200’s are now at over $1000 … they used to be in the high $700’s a few years ago. Nothing has changed except the price they’re demanding.

 

[Orion7319]

S200’s climb walls and do the water line too. It’s also used the power stream to thrust turn.

This is kind of what I’m getting at. There seems to be an assumption that you need a robot that at least has the water line feature, so everyone simply recommends the S200 as the starting point. I have a vinyl pool and my CH out of the tap is less then 50, so I don’t get scale. I don’t see that I need this feature. My current Nautilis cc plus more then does an adequate job cleaning my particular pool. It does clean the water line in that it will drive around the pool at the waterline. I don’t need a bot that is going to scrub the snot out of the water line. In fact that kinda makes me a bit nervous as I would worry just a bit that it might pull the liner out of the track in a few places. I know my Nautilis cc plus isn’t going to live forever. When it dies, do I really need an S200 that seems to start at around $1000.00 or will say a $630.00 DX3 do just fine for me? There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion about the sub $1000.00 bots simply because of the waterline feature.

 

[red-beard]

For you, a DX3 is probably fine.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

This is kind of what I’m getting at. There seems to be an assumption that you need a robot that at least has the water line feature, so everyone simply recommends the S200 as the starting point. I have a vinyl pool and my CH out of the tap is less then 50, so I don’t get scale. I don’t see that I need this feature. My current Nautilis cc plus more then does an adequate job cleaning my particular pool. It does clean the water line in that it will drive around the pool at the waterline. I don’t need a bot that is going to scrub the snot out of the water line. In fact that kinda makes me a bit nervous as I would worry just a bit that it might pull the liner out of the track in a few places. I know my Nautilis cc plus isn’t going to live forever. When it dies, do I really need an S200 that seems to start at around $1000.00 or will say a $630.00 DX3 do just fine for me? There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion about the sub $1000.00 bots simply because of the waterline feature.

Yeah, for a vinyl pool the waterline feature really isn’t all that useful in my opinion. And honestly, the idea that a robot with rubber brushes is going to scrub the calcium off of a tile line is laughable at best. I have a mixed stainless steel/nylon pool brush and I can scrub a spot for 20 minutes straight and the calcium scale will be laughing at me when I’m done. The most the waterline feature does is breakup and small leaves or debris that sits at the wall and shoots it over to the skimmer or vacuums it up. A robot can not remove scale, period. So that feature isn’t even a deal-breaker.

I think the S200 became the recommended bot because it was less than $1000 and it had a decent set of features for the price. Once you go below the S200, the robots in those classes tend to not have the “active” brush. The active brush is nice because it’s geared to spin at 2X the speed of the other brush and that helps a bit with debris collection.

I’d say it’s better to go with a cheaper bot and maybe spend a little extra on the different cleaning panels then waste money on scheduling features in the higher priced robots. The caddy, priced around $150+, isn’t necessary at all.

 

[Newdude]

do I really need an S200 that seems to start at around $1000.00 or will say a $630.00 DX3 do just fine for me?

Well that's its own conundrum. Is the $630 for the downgrade worth almost what the S200's were going for last year ?

 

[Orion7319]

For you, a DX3 is probably fine.

That’s my thought right now, but I’m not sure what the cord length on those is. I’m wondering if it would be helpful to consider under what conditions these cheaper bots might make more sense, and then I have some data for some thoughtful comparisons between the cheaper options. Of course if I had a plaster pool, I would want an S200 or better…

 

[Orion7319]

Well that's its own conundrum. Is the $630 for the downgrade worth almost what the S200's were going for last year ?

Probably not last years prices, but I doubt you will find the s200 basic feature set for less then $1k ever again.

 

[Newdude]

Probably not last years prices, but I doubt you will find the s200 basic feature set for less then $1k ever again.

That wasn't the point. The point was them all going up by the same obscene amount proportionately doesn't make the lesser model any better. It's may be easier to swallow financially but harder to swallow on principle.

Evidentally my robot purchase will be waiting for the end of the storm, possibly forever.

 

[Orion7319]

Yeah, for a vinyl pool the waterline feature really isn’t all that useful in my opinion. And honestly, the idea that a robot with rubber brushes is going to scrub the calcium off of a tile line is laughable at best. I have a mixed stainless steel/nylon pool brush and I can scrub a spot for 20 minutes straight and the calcium scale will be laughing at me when I’m done. The most the waterline feature does is breakup and small leaves or debris that sits at the wall and shoots it over to the skimmer or vacuums it up. A robot can not remove scale, period. So that feature isn’t even a deal-breaker.

I think the S200 became the recommended bot because it was less than $1000 and it had a decent set of features for the price. Once you go below the S200, the robots in those classes tend to not have the “active” brush. The active brush is nice because it’s geared to spin at 2X the speed of the other brush and that helps a bit with debris collection.

I’d say it’s better to go with a cheaper bot and maybe spend a little extra on the different cleaning panels then waste money on scheduling features in the higher priced robots. The caddy, priced around $150+, isn’t necessary at all.

The only feature then that I’m wondering about is the 2x speed brush. I unfortunately get a ton of debris from my neighbors pine trees. So much so that I felt it more then necessary to invest in a beta solar skimmer bot. The beta does the job of getting the debris off the wall. I use the fine filters for my Nautilis as the regular filters are simply junk. Honestly I don’t know why they include the regular filters in the first place.

 

[Orion7319]

That wasn't the point. The point was them all going up by the same obscene amount proportionately doesn't make the lesser model any better. It's may be easier to swallow financially but harder to swallow on principle.

Evidentally my robot purchase will be waiting for the end of the storm, possibly forever.

Well yeah I feel that! But these prices I feel are enough to justify a reevaluation of the feature sets, and under what conditions are each feature set really necessary. I understand the principal of the thing, but that doesn’t negate the practicality of the thing..