Recoat SWG salt cell to restore aged cell?

[nuttyp]

My aftermarket 40,000 gallon ‘T-15 equivalent’ cell from Leslies finally fatigued its way to ineffective status after about 12,000 hours (3 years at 11hrs/day). I just replaced it with this other aftermarket see-thru version called Simple Cell from poolguysupply for $399 and it seems to be working well. I keep the original ~$900 Hayward Aquarite T-15 cell stored as a spare.

Always wanting a better or cheaper DIY alternative, I thought I would see if there are some combos of metallurgists or chemists who might be familiar with the manufacturing process, such that it might be possible to re-coat the old cell? Some space-age titaniumish uraniumish metal paint from Sherwin Williams? A crazed thought perhaps. First problem is opening the sealed case and then exposing the plates. Then work the space-age paint onto the cells and find a reliable way to re-seal the cartridge.

I had acid bathed the leslies cell perhaps 6 times across the 3 years to remove calcium buildup. I’m getting less buildup these days, now that I’m allowing TA to drift down toward 50PPM and I’m no longer in the big fight between TA and acid while the ph would continuously try to rise and cause calcium buildup. So I hope for even greater longevity in the new cell. The revelation to stop chasing my tail with TA-then-Acid came from many great and appreciated TFP authors and is available circa post 49++ in Iron stain from pool salt - all or most salts have iron.

I’m guessing the recoat idea is a nonstarter, so perhaps the only space is between my ears? Cheers.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Hi Joe, good morning. Sadly I doubt most folks would have access to the type of metal used on cells (it starts with an R but Ive forgotten the name). There is always a first Einstein so if you figure it out please share the deets.

One improvement I can help you with though is to NOT use acid of any kind on the cell, as that will shorten the lifespan. Acids remove some of those magic metals and a good water stream instead often takes care of the build-up. If you don't see white build upon the plates don't mess with them. Many SWG devices use a reverse polarity session which helps keep the plates clean.

Maddie

 

[mknauss]

From our Wiki article --
"The SWG cell consists of titanium metal plates coated with a layer of mixed metal oxide catalyst (ruthenium monoxide and iridium). 18-36 volts DC electrical current is passed between the plates."

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Smartypants Martybot!! LOL

 

[ajw22]

Invent the coating to rejuvenate SWG cells and you may become rich.

Or you may make your big fortune into a small fortune.

 

[nuttyp]

NOT use acid of any kind on the cell, as that will shorten the lifespan.

Thanks Skippy! The thing is I've read that so many times, and tried it so many times - but when I get the buildup I simply have near-zero luck dislodging calcium from even the strongest stream of water from a dedicated hose nozzle. But it wouldn't be the first time I missed the point! So I'll try again next time, perhaps using my pressure washer. It would surely be worth the effort to extend the cell life.

ruthenium monoxide and iridium

Meanwhile this is perfect to know, thanks Marty. When I get the right mix of ruthenium & iridium, assuming the feds don't show up at my door for googling various isotopes and "how to buy iridium online", I'll sell the patent so "Valspar's new RMI Cell Restorer" can simply be poured through the cell, no need to disassemble. Just bake for one hour at 300 degreesF or until golden brown. I'll donate the profits to TFP after sharing with you contributors

 

[pjt]

I had acid bathed the leslies cell perhaps 6 times across the 3 years

Maintain your CSI between zero and -0.3 and you'll have minimal to no buildup with your new cell. Acid cleaning should be a last resort. Ideally, you should never clean the cell during its lifespan.

The revelation to stop chasing my tail with TA-then-Acid

Under normal circumstances, a non-trichlor pool should never need baking soda. Should be smoother sailing from here.

 

[nuttyp]

Under normal circumstances, a non-trichlor pool should never need baking soda. Should be smoother sailing from here.

Thanks @pjt for reinforcing the concept, and I totally agree and regarding CSI too. Along with Allen (@ajw22), you, @Bperry and others we went back and forth on this in December in posts 40++ in that thread I initially started about salt quality -- Iron stain from pool salt - all or most salts have iron..

I still believe that pool school, poolmath and any other TFP locations that state the values similar to the ones pasted below are totally misleading folks - not as badly as the pool stores who want TA far higher but still misleading (dramatically so). I suppose I understand the compromise position of TFP experts who believe that some acceptable range needs to be published. But it's simply not right. We're not all experienced chemists in here, so for years I trusted tables like the one below, the old poolmath, etc. to conclude that I should keep adding baking soda to achieve that 60-80 range (or higher as stated below and in some locations on TFP), which of course is also impossible when you have to add MA to fix the resultant high ph. Some day when I'm president - LOL - no chart like this would ever pass muster - because one should always determine the proper TA value for their own pool conditions. Perhaps we do so by careful reading of TA - Further Reading and finally, hopefully, unearthing the statement "However, if a pool experiences constant acid demand and the pH rises too quickly, TA can be safely lowered as far as 50 PPM..." Many of us don't automatically know what "rising too quickly" or "experiencing constant acid demand" means, we just add acid to get the recommended ph and CSI, then add TA to get the recommended TA range, over and over again, never realizing we were screwing ourselves.

Sorry to jump back on that soapbox - I guess I'm still residually frustrated over the years of wasted time and money. AFAIC the stated ranges should be replaced with "There is no acceptable range - you must determine the proper TA value for your pool by reading TA- FURTHER READING." It might go on to say "...for some pools 50ppm TA will be totally correct, for others 80 or even 90 - but the chosen value will make a huge difference and it is ultimately imperative to determine the proper value - for your pool - and maintain it...."

I thought of starting a new thread to get this mistake more visibility and/or that it should be featured and sticky, but since experts disagree about changing the recommendation, I figured people would interpret my stance as TFP-bashing. I'm not bashing TFP at all, I just think I'm pointing out a mistake I think we should be open to alternative views on the topic.

With thanks to @Bperry I guess this statement provides some relief ... He wrote in that salt thread "update to the latest poolmath app and the “ideal” problem goes away. There’s just a straight recommendation of 50-90 now." Perhaps that helps someone if the change was made - I don't use the app or new poolmath because of issues like this that oversimplify (IMHO). If the recommendation is 50-90, I assume most folks will think it can be anywhere in that range, which is totally not true.

There is a way to settle the debate, if TFP supports polling. Simply ask users if they find themselves both increasing TA and adding acid from time to time
Peace brothers and sisters!

 

[Newdude]

We're not all experienced chemists in here, so for years I trusted tables like the one below, the old poolmath, etc

They are all just tools and you have to know how to interpret and/or use the tools.

The FC chart for one has a target range when nobody new inherently understands that low target is probably enough each day in the extended season and high target might not be enough in July. So a great many come report they are targeting 'middle range' figuring its a good compromise between 'high' and 'low'.

If we put recommendations out there such as the charts or poolmath targets, it won't fit several situations as we have such a wide variance of parameters from tons of annual rain to none, tons of CH/TA in fill water to none, from12 ft blow up ring intex pools to quartz and tile inground pools with spas and water features. Then there is indoor and outdoor and hot tubs, and i need a Snickers cuz we are going to be here ALL night. Lol.

I wish everyone would come ask, but that can't possibly work either. Right this moment we could handle the 88 members visiting with at least several 'helpers' among them, but not the 6502 guests.



I feel your frustration. And I totally agree. Anything we say or list needs too many asterisks so that everyone who finds it sees how it applies to them. *If* they take the time to learn why they are different in the first place.

We frequently have discussions on the best way forward and change course when it appears needed. Even if nothing changes, knowing how things may be misinterpreted helps us be better helpers. Thank you for bringing this up.

 

[nuttyp]

I get it, thanks @Newdude for your thoughtful reply. That *If* statement is huge; even with my meager knowledge I have so much difficulty getting folks to stop and take time to think. Signs of the times I suppose, and I'm apparently no exception

 

[proavia]

Use a plastic or wood probe to clean the scale from the cell.
A 20 inch drain hair snake works well. You can get one for around $3

20 in. Hair Snake

Between that and rinsing with water, it's pretty easy to clean any buildup.
Keeping your CSI slightly negative (0.00 to -0.30) will minimize scaling in the SWG.

 

[nuttyp]

Thanks Gene - I actually have the hair snake hanging in the garage! Although I've poked with a sharpened wood dowel with little impact, I'll try the snake next time. Hoping also not to need it with lesser or no future calcium buildup

 

[Newdude]

Protip : Find an ice cream place that uses These spoons. The handles are a good balance of thin and firm. It'll take some trial and error to find the right place, and you'll have to eat some Sundaes in the process, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make. My SWG is worth it.

 

[chlorinatorpro]

My aftermarket 40,000 gallon ‘T-15 equivalent’ cell from Leslies finally fatigued its way to ineffective status after about 12,000 hours (3 years at 11hrs/day). I just replaced it with this other aftermarket see-thru version called Simple Cell from poolguysupply for $399 and it seems to be working well. I keep the original ~$900 Hayward Aquarite T-15 cell stored as a spare.

Just want to verify if you were running your pump almost 22 hours a day at 50% duty cycle or 11 hours @100% , 365 days a year in order use your cell 12,000 hours? Regarding the Simple Cell, the threads are the weak points. Very easy to strip and they have a tendency to become brittle over time and chip thus causing leakage. So be very careful when unscrewing/screwing the unions.