Random “power outage” and communication lost!

[BigTD]

Hey folks!
New to posting but I’ve learned lots of cool stuff here! I haven’t found a post like this but if there is a solution somewhere and someone could point me to it that would be great!

So here’s the deal:

Pentair VS PUMP and Easytouch/Screenlogic installed. All new pool and system May 2019.

Towards the end of the season last year we had random issues where randomly the pump would shut off: “power outage alarm”, “communication lost”. It may have been happening once a week. Now after opening the pool for this season it was happening multiple times/day. It is unrelated to any scheduled events, the pump did not seem hot. I could manually restart through the ScreenLogic App or directly on the panel even after just noticing the pump was off it had always immediately come back on. I checked all the connections to the pump and every was secure. I reset the breakers to the panel but it didn’t change anything.

Contacted Pentair customer service. They thought it sounded like a short in the pump. Pool guy came and replaced the “brains” of the pump. Ie the top electronic console. It seemed to run well for about 24hrs. Then started again with the same errors. I even had a few issues where the jets (on actuators) would be “on” and I couldn’t turn them off using either the panel or App. I didn’t direct them to be on nor were they on a schedule. I had to flip the breaker and that seems to reset that issue.

So I decided to do a full factory reset of the Easytouch panel (EEPROM). Reset and recreated pump settings, and schedules. (I had never done that before so that was a learning experience!). It seemed to have worked for about 24hrs.

I don’t think it is related but as of last season the app does not show the actual salt level (SWG says fine).

We’re now at a point where the pump will shut off 1-2x daily. Interestingly, once it shut off but then it came back on by itself when the new schedule activated (ie running high at night and low during the day).

I’m not sure where to go from here. Thankfully I’ve always been able to remotely restart the pump, but now I’m checking the app to see if there is an alarm more then a teenager checks Facebook!

If it was a panel wiring issue then I would have thought that we’d have had this issue previous years. If it was a pump only issue then why did the jets randomly come on? So is it a software issue (I’ve also deleted and reinstalled the app)? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Happy to clarify things if it would help.

frustrated!
Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Big,

Tell me if your pump is wired to the load side of the pump filter relay or does the pump get constant AC power?

Show me your schedules..

Do you normally turn the pump on or off using ScreenLogic, or do you just let it run a scheduled on/off?

When the pump shuts down, does the display still work? If so, does it say "Display Not Active?"

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[BigTD]

Big,

Tell me if your pump is wired to the load side of the pump filter relay or does the pump get constant AC power?

Show me your schedules..

Do you normally turn the pump on or off using ScreenLogic, or do you just let it run a scheduled on/off?

When the pump shuts down, does the display still work? If so, does it say "Display Not Active?"

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for getting back to me!

I’ll have to get you an image of the wiring later today to confirm the power supply as well as confirm the display question.

We use the schedules to adjust the pump and if it shuts off then use ScreenLogic to turn it back on.

thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

When you reply with the pic, please show me your pump speed page...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[BigTD]

I do believe the pump screen says “Display not active”. I’ll verify the next time it shuts down (it did this am but i didn’t get a chance to get a look before it was restarted).
I’ve attached the images of the wiring. Hopefully you can see everything clearly.
Much appreciated!
Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

It appears to me that your pump is being powered by the load side of the Pump/Filter relay along with your SWCG.

The pump should get constant AC power and should not be wired to the pump filter relay.. The SWCG Transformer is wired correctly.

As a quick test, I would like you to go out to the panel and confirm the IntelliFlo pump is running and the SWCG has lights on.. The system is in AUTO and in the POOL mode..

With everything running I want you put the system in the Service mode.. Then tell me if the pump shuts off and the SWCG shuts off. If wired as I suspect, they both will shut off. The pump's display should be blank and the cell should have no lights..

Note that after put the system back into AUTO, it might take a couple of minutes for everything fire back up..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[BigTD]

Tyler,

It appears to me that your pump is being powered by the load side of the Pump/Filter relay along with your SWCG.

The pump should get constant AC power and should not be wired to the pump filter relay.. The SWCG Transformer is wired correctly.

As a quick test, I would like you to go out to the panel and confirm the IntelliFlo pump is running and the SWCG has lights on.. The system is in AUTO and in the POOL mode..

With everything running I want you put the system in the Service mode.. Then tell me if the pump shuts off and the SWCG shuts off. If wired as I suspect, they both will shut off. The pump's display should be blank and the cell should have no lights..

Note that after put the system back into AUTO, it might take a couple of minutes for everything fire back up..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim, you’re a rockstar. predicted when I put the panel into Service the SWG And pump shut down with no lights etc. Put it back into auto and everything fired up almost immediately.

Any thoughts on why this would be an intermittent issue?

So I think what you’re suggesting is : I need to run the pump wires directly from the breaker to where they’re maretted together and bypass the relay entirely?

Also, Out if curiosity, why is there a “filter pump” relay if it isn’t to be used?

Now that I know what I’m looking for it appears that this happens not uncommonly based on other threads.

Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

Originally the pump filter relay was there to run single speed pumps and the SWCG.. When VS pumps came along the Pump/Filter relay was no longer needed for the VS pump, but it is still required for the SWCG transformer.. (Read the warning on the side of the transformer..)

I suspect the timing of when it happens makes it sometimes seem intermittent.

Yes, the pump needs constant power, but the SWCG transformer still needs to be controlled by the pump/filter relay.

One thing that puzzles me is how your pump ran at all between 7 pm and 7 am.. My understanding is that the pump/filter relay only closes when in the Spa mode or Pool mode. If that is true, at 7 pm, when the pool mode shuts off, I would have expected the pump/filter relay to shut off.. The way it is currently wired the pump should not be getting any power.

Show me a list of your Circuits... Where I can see the Circuit, the Circuit Name and the Circuit Function..

I have a better way to set up your schedule, but need the above info first.

If you correct the wiring I think most of your issues will go away...

Why do you run so fast overnight???

Nothing to do with your problem, but it appears you use your heater each day for 12 hours.. Do you have a solar cover or ?? How do you keep the pool warm?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[BigTD]

Tyler,

Originally the pump filter relay was there to run single speed pumps and the SWCG.. When VS pumps came along the Pump/Filter relay was no longer needed for the VS pump, but it is still required for the SWCG transformer.. (Read the warning on the side of the transformer..)

I suspect the timing of when it happens makes it sometimes seem intermittent.

Yes, the pump needs constant power, but the SWCG transformer still needs to be controlled by the pump/filter relay.

One thing that puzzles me is how your pump ran at all between 7 pm and 7 am.. My understanding is that the pump/filter relay only closes when in the Spa mode or Pool mode. If that is true, at 7 pm, when the pool mode shuts off, I would have expected the pump/filter relay to shut off.. The way it is currently wired the pump should not be getting any power.

Show me a list of your Circuits... Where I can see the Circuit, the Circuit Name and the Circuit Function..

I have a better way to set up your schedule, but need the above info first.

If you correct the wiring I think most of your issues will go away...

Why do you run so fast overnight???

Nothing to do with your problem, but it appears you use your heater each day for 12 hours.. Do you have a solar cover or ?? How do you keep the pool warm?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim!
I’ll try to explain. Sorry. Definitely not an expert in these things but learning on the go.
As I understand it I’m running Pool during the day and High speed overnight. My pool guy suggested these speeds to insure appropriate turnover and filtering and to take advantage of the time of day power usage (cost drops at 7pm).
The heater is set at 80f. It doesn’t run unless the temp drops below that set point. (and I cover at night too). M

Suggestions for scheduling would be great.

I won’t likely have the time to attempt the rewiring for a day or so. I’m reviewing the installation manuals now too and see what you’re talking about. Basically then the wires marretted together don’t need to be.
I need to connect/marrette the lines to the pump and wires leading to the “line” on the pump relay together and I can then connect them into the pump breaker. This feeds the relay and will power the pump directly. Then I run the SWCG transformer directly to the load 1 and 2 side of the pump relay.

Piece of cake…

thanks!
Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

There are different ways to do what we want, but here is the easiest way to do this...

With all the power off, just move the two black wires from the load 1 and 2 side of the pump filter relay and add them to the line #1 and 2 side of the pump filter relay. This means the Line side pins will each have two black wires. At this point both the pump and the SWCG will have constant AC power.

But.. we want the SWCG's power to come through the pump filter relay.. To do that, simple remove the White and Yellow transformer wires from the blue wire nuts, and install them on Load 1 and Load 2 on the pump filter relay.. Does not matter what color goes on which load #. Now the transformer will only get power when the relay is closed.

Simple and should take about three minutes..

Please confirm that your pump is running after 7 pm.. If so, tell me what the little LCD says.. Auto, Pool, Spa, nothing????? Also tell me if your salt cell has any lights.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

My pool guy suggested these speeds to insure appropriate turnover and filtering and to take advantage of the time of day power usage (cost drops at 7pm).

Turnover is a myth.
Run the pump for two reasons, generate chlorine and skim the surface. Determine at what rpm the SWCG operates and add 100-200 rpm. That is Pool Mode. Then determine what rpm is needed to efficiently skim. If higher than pool mode, then create a Circuit Function to run the pump at a higher rpm when needed.

 

[BigTD]

Turnover is a myth.
Run the pump for two reasons, generate chlorine and skim the surface. Determine at what rpm the SWCG operates and add 100-200 rpm. That is Pool Mode. Then determine what rpm is needed to efficiently skim. If higher than pool mode, then create a Circuit Function to run the pump at a higher rpm when needed.

Cool. Thanks for the input. So basically lower the rpm until it shuts off then go back up. I’ll sort out the electrical issues and work on this next!

 

[BigTD]

Tyler,

There are different ways to do what we want, but here is the easiest way to do this...

With all the power off, just move the two black wires from the load 1 and 2 side of the pump filter relay and add them to the line #1 and 2 side of the pump filter relay. This means the Line side pins will each have two black wires. At this point both the pump and the SWCG will have constant AC power.

But.. we want the SWCG's power to come through the pump filter relay.. To do that, simple remove the White and Yellow transformer wires from the blue wire nuts, and install them on Load 1 and Load 2 on the pump filter relay.. Does not matter what color goes on which load #. Now the transformer will only get power when the relay is closed.

Simple and should take about three minutes..

Please confirm that your pump is running after 7 pm.. If so, tell me what the little LCD says.. Auto, Pool, Spa, nothing????? Also tell me if your salt cell has any lights.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim,
Your rewiring sounds much simpler than my idea, I’ll do that in the AM.

The pump is definitely running after 7 pm, at high speed, although now when I look the panel is saying “jets” are on too. I likely need to resort the circuits. I’ve attached images of the panel and swcg.

I’ll report back tomorrow with the wiring update.
Thanks again.
tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

I see the pump/filter is on and Aux 2 is on.. the panel says Aux 2 is "Jets" but your circuit page says Aux 2 is "High Speed"..

I have to assume that your "jets" are controlled by a valve and that valve is assigned to the High Speed Circuit.. If that is true, then the jets will always be on when High Speed is on.

I still can't figure out why you are still in the pool mode.. Your schedule says Pool is from 7 am until 7 pm.. The system shows after 10 pm.. Something is wrong, I'm just not sure what.

I just want to confirm that the pump runs after 7 pm without you have to push any button, any where... Correct??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[BigTD]

Tyler,

I see the pump/filter is on and Aux 2 is on.. the panel says Aux 2 is "Jets" but your circuit page says Aux 2 is "High Speed"..

I have to assume that your "jets" are controlled by a valve and that valve is assigned to the High Speed Circuit.. If that is true, then the jets will always be on when High Speed is on.

I still can't figure out why you are still in the pool mode.. Your schedule says Pool is from 7 am until 7 pm.. The system shows after 10 pm.. Something is wrong, I'm just not sure what.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim,
You’re correct, the “jets” are controlled by actuators which redirect the flow.

It maybe best if I adjust my circuits/names? Perhaps I set up something incorrectly (although it’s all seems to work with the exception of the wiring issue). I’ll look more closely at that as well as looking at pump rpm as Mknauss suggested.
Thanks!
Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

I'd change the "High Speed" to "Jets".. Maybe the EasyTouch sees High Speed differently than it should.. I'm still trying to figure out why your pool mode is still on after 7 PM.

You just have a pool right, no spa??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[panic_button]

Looking at the panel, there are a few questions. Why are they running the main power feed to a breaker instead of the lugs on the board? Also there is only 1 GFCI for the pool light and to a GFCI outlet, everything else is on a standard breaker. Is the feed to panel on a GFCI breaker?

 

[BigTD]

Looking at the panel, there are a few questions. Why are they running the main power feed to a breaker instead of the lugs on the board? Also there is only 1 GFCI for the pool light and to a GFCI outlet, everything else is on a standard breaker. Is the feed to panel on a GFCI breaker?

Good questions, I don’t have good answers though. I presume that they ran the main feed to the breaker to allow shut off in order to allow servicing?
Thanks!

 

[BigTD]

Tyler,

I'd change the "High Speed" to "Jets".. Maybe the EasyTouch sees High Speed differently than it should.. I'm still trying to figure out why your pool mode is still on after 7 PM.

You just have a pool right, no spa??

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim!
Rewired! You’re right, took about 5 min. Everything came back on. Put in service mode and pump panel still on “display not active” and swcg off.
Not that I doubt you at all, but for my own peace of mind I just want 48hrs (well I never want an alert!) without an alert to verify everything is good.
I’ll work on sorting out the circuits next.
For now I’ve eliminated the schedules and have just left it in pool mode (1960 rpm) after reviewing the thoughts and the paper on turnover. I’m still running 24hrs but just at the lower speed for now.

I do not have a spa per se, just the pool. However, t is plumbed with actuators to adjust valves to direct water from main circulation to 2 rotating outlets associated with a bench in the pool. So basically when I had it set to Spa the valves redirect and I have the heater fire up to a warmer temperature. Kinda like a hot tub within the pool. Hopefully that makes sense.

Also I’ll be emailing my pool guy and installer and letting them know about this. I’m not too pleased that things were not wired appropriately and I would also assume that this has happened to others where the pools were installed.

I’ll move onto the circuits and settings and wait to see if there are any alerts and let you know.

thanks!
Tyler

 

[Jimrahbe]

Tyler,

Sounds great, but keep in mind if you turn on a circuit without a schedule, it will only run as long at the egg-timer allows.

The Default egg timer is 12 hours... This means that unless you change the egg-timer the pump will shut off in 12 hours.

I suggest, as a test, you set up your Pool Circuit on a schedule of 7am until 7am.. This will run the Pool Circuit for 24/7.

Or your can set up Pool with the heater, as you have it now, from 7 am until 7 pm and the Pool without the heater from 7 pm until 7 am.. Either way should work..

I would leave High Speed out of the equation for now.

I find that programming works much better for me when I use my PC.. You get screens like this..

Schedules1.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Mar 8, 2021

Set up page 2.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 8, 2020

Page 3 of 5.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Apr 4, 2020

Thanks,

Jim R.