Possible New Pool In Central FL

bbqjosh

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2020
72
Orlando, FL
Alright I need some help here (I've reached out to my engineer also) but my LDS company asked me "What is the top of bond beam elevation?" and I wasn't sure what to tell them. Does anyone have any advice?
The decking company can help you figure it out based on paver thickness, coping thickness, etc. Depends on where your drain is located and how much room you have to slope from the coping to the drain.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
The decking company can help you figure it out based on paver thickness, coping thickness, etc. Depends on where your drain is located and how much room you have to slope from the coping to the drain.
Thanks I'll try to reach out to some paver companies to see if they can help we haven't selected one yet.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
So we have an existing concrete patio we plan to do pavers on top of. Standard paver thickness looks to be around 2.375". We also plan to run a 5cm (1.97") coping tile (tumbled marble).

So I was thinking area drains here would be best. Using a slope of 1" of drop for 4' of run. The drains would be approx 3' from the pool at the patio end. I'm thinking the pool bond beam should be close to level with the existing patio.

So 2.375 (pavers) -1.97 (coping) = .405 delta (round up to half an inch) + run (3' = .75") = 1.25" Bond beam raised above patio.

Does this seem reasonable?
 

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Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
So I have another question (I know I'm full of them).... So obviously I'll strip the sod, get the LDS done, and then the gunite. How long after the gunite should I wait to backfill the pool? I'm terrified of 2 things right now... 1) Cave in's prior to gunite and 2) The pool "popping" or lifting.
 

bbqjosh

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2020
72
Orlando, FL
So I have another question (I know I'm full of them).... So obviously I'll strip the sod, get the LDS done, and then the gunite. How long after the gunite should I wait to backfill the pool? I'm terrified of 2 things right now... 1) Cave in's prior to gunite and 2) The pool "popping" or lifting.
When they dug out my pool they put an under drain and hooked a pump to it. It will keep the ground water pumping to the street or wherever you can pump water to. There were a couple spots that fell in due to rain but they fixed those prior to gunite. After the gunite they will continue to pump the water from under the shell for a few days. Eventually, that pipe will be stubbed up outside your deck and capped. Then it can be used in the future if you ever need to empty the pool all the way. They can open the pipe and pump any ground water out from under the shell to keep it from popping. It is rainy season so I would see if they can put some plastic or tarps over the hole if there are going to be any delays.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
When they dug out my pool they put an under drain and hooked a pump to it. It will keep the ground water pumping to the street or wherever you can pump water to. There were a couple spots that fell in due to rain but they fixed those prior to gunite. After the gunite they will continue to pump the water from under the shell for a few days. Eventually, that pipe will be stubbed up outside your deck and capped. Then it can be used in the future if you ever need to empty the pool all the way. They can open the pipe and pump any ground water out from under the shell to keep it from popping. It is rainy season so I would see if they can put some plastic or tarps over the hole if there are going to be any delays.
Would you happen to have any pictures of this pipe and pump so I can ask our last LDS crew? How long did they wait on yours to backfill? Did they actually hit ground water with yours?
 
Last edited:

Ryanrichard25

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2020
75
South Florida
So I have another question (I know I'm full of them).... So obviously I'll strip the sod, get the LDS done, and then the gunite. How long after the gunite should I wait to backfill the pool? I'm terrified of 2 things right now... 1) Cave in's prior to gunite and 2) The pool "popping" or lifting.
for my pool (which has about 6" of ground water in it since day 1 of shotcrete) they made a hole in bottom of back wall to allow the ground water to equalize with the pool so theres no pressure. when they do the plaster they will pump out the water, fill the hole, and plaster. Then he says once its filled with water theres no worry about the "popping" bc itll be plenty heavy

theres also a pipe underneath (hydrostatic relief valve my PB called it) that runs to the side of my house that can be connected to a pump to remove ground water if need be
 

bbqjosh

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2020
72
Orlando, FL
Would you happen to have any pictures of this pipe and pump so I can ask our last LDS crew? How long did they wait on yours to backfill? Did they actually hit ground water with yours?
This is the best picture I have. It is buried below the gravel. Pump is on the left. No standing ground water when they dug. They back filled a couple days after the gunite was shot in.
1594155155015.png
 

jimmythegreek

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In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
All these questions are aite specific. Yiu need to establish a benchmark and shoot grade from there. I use the threshold of the nearest door as 0. If you use the concrete deck it has to be the same spot always the deck van vary amd have pitch. You want the bond beam a little lower than the final deck height to account for mortar to be able to level the coping up. Also you said pavers on top of concrete. What's the base? Cant just stick them right on concrete. You need to know what the decking plan amd install is going to ne before you set grade. Theres alot of moving parts to a pool build. Alot of it is experience be careful as you go. Lots of PBs screw up plenty even with experience
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
for my pool (which has about 6" of ground water in it since day 1 of shotcrete) they made a hole in bottom of back wall to allow the ground water to equalize with the pool so theres no pressure. when they do the plaster they will pump out the water, fill the hole, and plaster. Then he says once its filled with water theres no worry about the "popping" bc itll be plenty heavy

theres also a pipe underneath (hydrostatic relief valve my PB called it) that runs to the side of my house that can be connected to a pump to remove ground water if need be
Thanks I talked to the LDS crew and they do run a "deadline" pipe to a pump and that is used to remove ground water.

This is the best picture I have. It is buried below the gravel. Pump is on the left. No standing ground water when they dug. They back filled a couple days after the gunite was shot in.
Thanks!

All these questions are aite specific. Yiu need to establish a benchmark and shoot grade from there. I use the threshold of the nearest door as 0. If you use the concrete deck it has to be the same spot always the deck van vary amd have pitch. You want the bond beam a little lower than the final deck height to account for mortar to be able to level the coping up. Also you said pavers on top of concrete. What's the base? Cant just stick them right on concrete. You need to know what the decking plan amd install is going to ne before you set grade. Theres alot of moving parts to a pool build. Alot of it is experience be careful as you go. Lots of PBs screw up plenty even with experience
Thanks for the response I'll call some more paver companies and see if they can help me out I was trying to use the concrete patio as 0 but could go the the door as well. From a quick research it seems like a small layer of sand is good to go on top of the concrete.
 

jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
Yes concrete sand on top. Your in FL so no freeze to worry about but you should always put fabric on top of concrete first. Reasom beingnif it cracks the sand falls thru and the pavers then sink. Using slab is OK for benchmark just mark it and use same spot over and over wherever it may be. I use doors because early on I used a slab and the next day it was gone. The guy digging was told by homeowner to rip it they were gonna do all new with pavers. Lesson learned for me
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
Yes concrete sand on top. Your in FL so no freeze to worry about but you should always put fabric on top of concrete first. Reasom beingnif it cracks the sand falls thru and the pavers then sink. Using slab is OK for benchmark just mark it and use same spot over and over wherever it may be. I use doors because early on I used a slab and the next day it was gone. The guy digging was told by homeowner to rip it they were gonna do all new with pavers. Lesson learned for me
Good point and the point on the slab makes a difference. I'll use the doorway for my 0 point and try to figure it out from there. I'll post a few pictures up later with dimensions.

We have a tentative dig date of 7/27 because I have to travel the next 2 weeks for work and want to be on site for everything.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
Ok I was finally able to get out and try to take some measurements but I was by myself so they aren't the best. If I use the door opening as my 0 point then I subtract my coping thickness (3CM = 1.181") and then add .25" for every 1' of run it puts me at 0-1.181+.75 (3 feet is half way from the concrete to the pool waterline) = -.431" below the door sil for the top of the pool shell. Does this sound reasonable?

Paver shown in the images is just a spare I had laying around from a previous patio extension we built.
 

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jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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I like to go 3/16 on paver patios 1/4" is too much unless you are directing water somewhere amd makes it harder on table and chairs to balance. Where are you directing water to? That slab isnt staying in pic is it?
 

jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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Are you pitching away from door towards pool? Your plan shows existing lanai that's what confused me. Before you can plan elevation you gotta think water runoff. Once you know that then pitch for water flow. If you are a ways away from that door for actual pool location I would only use a laser or transit to establish heights. A level will get you a few feet not much more. If your keeping that slab you have no wiggle room for deck errors. That wouldnt pass here has to be 4" below door threshold but you are in FL so likely different down there
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
Are you pitching away from door towards pool? Your plan shows existing lanai that's what confused me. Before you can plan elevation you gotta think water runoff. Once you know that then pitch for water flow. If you are a ways away from that door for actual pool location I would only use a laser or transit to establish heights. A level will get you a few feet not much more. If your keeping that slab you have no wiggle room for deck errors. That wouldnt pass here has to be 4" below door threshold but you are in FL so likely different down there
Thanks for the reply the plan was to slop the door side towards the pool and the pool side towards the door and have area drains half way between the slab and the pool (this is a similar a setup to our neighbors). The waters edge is approx 20' from the door (6' off the slab). I have a string line level I could use to see how the existing slab slopes
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
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Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
I wouldnt trust a string level they aren't accurate. If you are aactually setting the grade a laser or transit must be used no way around it. Personally I hate doing spot drains. Makes laying the pavers alot harder as you have multi slopes amd no room for error. mainly use channel drains, if I need low key and the money is available they have beautiful covers but they're pricey. Luckily everybody wants gray decks around here and NDS has grey as a stock cover color. Spot drains are good dont get me wrong you just need to be good when laying out the deck
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
171
Winter Garden FL
@jimmythegreek thanks for the reply. The paver company I spoke with yesterday prefers strip drains as well but I'm just but a huge fan of how they look. The wife and I will explore both options and try to decide which one we go with.

Sorry I wasn't going to use a string to set grade just to try to get an idea of how the current slab is sloped. I expect to see a laser on site when they come to do layout and dig.
 
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