Possible New Pool In Central FL

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
Ok sorry need some additional help. I am looking at using 2 different companies for LDS and gunite due to costs however, the LDS company doesn't do the pre-grade. I know I am going to have a turn down wall so I'm assuming I want some dirt left on site for this but the question is how much?

Also should I do pre-grade after or before plumbing? What about after or before the turn down wall?
 
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Kahler33

Member
Jun 11, 2020
12
Keller, TX
Theres no deciding if you want automation you need it. On a simple pool it's not a huge deal to turn a valve for a single water feature. Once you add a spa you want to push a button for spa or pool mode. I'm a Hayward guy but the intellicenter is what you will need to be able to setup groups and handle all that. You have a complex setup planned. I am not sure either pump will handle 7' of sheers and 2 bubbles at the same time. normally the bubblers would be treated as 2 returns off the pool side amd the waterfalls would have their own pump. With a spa in the mix its gonna get trickier. Here is a pad with an 8' sheer, 2 bubblers. See the 3 pumps, one is dedicated to the waterfallsView attachment 148399
I am using Hayward as well. Their Omnilogic control systems is really nice looking. We are starting to dig this week. Just out of curiosity, we are having 3 pumps as well. One for a 14ft waterfall, 1 for pool which has 2 bubblers and a 6 ft waterfall, and 1 for the spa. Is this enough? Here is the link to my initial post, which I hope to update when digging starts.

 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,415
Morris Cnty NJ
That's all up to the excavator. Whomever is digging is usualy doing the trenching for plumbing and anything else needed. Cant say how much without being in site to see the grade and planned elevations. I'm take it you are GCing the build using subs?

To answer question on pumps....with 2 pumps the 2nd pump would be waterfalls. To get good projection you are going to use most of the VS pumps power. If you are ok with smaller bubbler height you can add them to that pump and have it look good. Normally I want 7' of sheers on a single pump. Then the pool spa would be a typical combo amd share the heater. Problem is if bubblers are in that setup they wont do much when in spa mode. In pool mode they are just 2 returns and you can give them any flow based on valving.
 
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Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
That's all up to the excavator. Whomever is digging is usualy doing the trenching for plumbing and anything else needed. Cant say how much without being in site to see the grade and planned elevations. I'm take it you are GCing the build using subs? [\quote]

Yes we have decided to take this on. We have a slope away from the house and itll be approx 30" low at the back right corner (looking down)

To answer question on pumps....with 2 pumps the 2nd pump would be waterfalls. To get good projection you are going to use most of the VS pumps power. If you are ok with smaller bubbler height you can add them to that pump and have it look good. Normally I want 7' of sheers on a single pump. Then the pool spa would be a typical combo amd share the heater. Problem is if bubblers are in that setup they wont do much when in spa mode. In pool mode they are just 2 returns and you can give them any flow based on valving.
So to be honest the projection distance and bubbler height off one pump is one thing I've been trying to calculate. Unfortunately the bubblers (4" CMP) don't tell you what reducer their heights are based on so I've been looking at the 8" heights assuming they'll be close since CMP didn't have anything they could provide.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
I need some opinions here I know I've mentioned it a little bit before but it came up again today. Is 1 strip drain enough for both pumps to run off or should I consider paying to have the engineering and quotes updated for 2 drains?

I know the strip drain can handle the flow for both but I'm worried about possibly cavitation of one pump. Is this a concern or should I stop worrying?

Sorry I'm asking again because my plumber brought it up. The city won't just allow me to put a second one in I'd have to get the engineering updated. I've never seen the channel drains before so it just seems odd to have 1 drain running 2 pumps but maybe it's not.
 
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Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
So we decided to stay with 1 drain in the pool.

Another question... Is it required or recommended to remove the sod prior to installing a pool? If I remove it should it be the entire patio area or only the pool area? Our LDS company doesn't do this so I'm trying to figure out if I need to hire another person to do it prior to the LDS work.
 

Kahler33

Member
Jun 11, 2020
12
Keller, TX
I need some opinions here I know I've mentioned it a little bit before but it came up again today. Is 1 strip drain enough for both pumps to run off or should I consider paying to have the engineering and quotes updated for 2 drains?

I know the strip drain can handle the flow for both but I'm worried about possibly cavitation of one pump. Is this a concern or should I stop worrying?

Sorry I'm asking again because my plumber brought it up. The city won't just allow me to put a second one in I'd have to get the engineering updated. I've never seen the channel drains before so it just seems odd to have 1 drain running 2 pumps but maybe it's not.
Our pool builder is requiring me to have 2 drains PER PUMP. I cant remember the exact words he used, but it was something like this. If you do not have enough drains, ie. 1 per pump, there is a suction that is caused that can hold a kid under water and is dangerous. Therefore they use more drains and it eliminates that suction. I am sure someone here knows the technical jargon.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
17,942
Northern NJ
Our pool builder is requiring me to have 2 drains PER PUMP. I cant remember the exact words he used, but it was something like this. If you do not have enough drains, ie. 1 per pump, there is a suction that is caused that can hold a kid under water and is dangerous. Therefore they use more drains and it eliminates that suction. I am sure someone here knows the technical jargon.
That is not 2 drains. That is one drain with two inlets in a T to be VGBA compliant so that a person cannot block all the suction from the inlet.

There are other VGBA compliant inlets that use one inlet to be VGBA compliant.

 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
So I think I've decided to leave all the dirt on site. We have a good bit of grade to build up at the end. I'm also going to get the sod stripped prior to dig because I don't want to risk SOD composing under the patio.

I signed an LDS and gunnite quote and I have a plumber lined up just waiting on schedule. It was shocking how expensive LDS and gunnite are. I'm also talking to the LDS and gunite company to see if they can possibly build the turndown/retaining wall for us also.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
45,422
Tallahassee, FL
Sounds like a solid plan for the dirt. It sure does take a surprising amount to build up areas once you start compacting it.

How many different companies did you talk to? Make sure to try for at least bids if at all possible.

Kim:kim:
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
Any feedback on the Aquacal SuperQuiet 166R heat pump vs the Pentair 460958? It sounds like the aquacal has a good warranty. It looks like the Pentair is a higher BTU output but I can't find the cool btu's for the Aquacal. Any feedback is appreciated.

Also not sure how well the Aquacal talks to the Pentair automation system.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
17,942
Northern NJ
Any feedback on the Aquacal SuperQuiet 166R heat pump vs the Pentair 460958? It sounds like the aquacal has a good warranty. It looks like the Pentair is a higher BTU output but I can't find the cool btu's for the Aquacal. Any feedback is appreciated.

Also not sure how well the Aquacal talks to the Pentair automation system.
I don’t think it does. If you intend to use the cooling feature then get the UltraTemp to work with the IntelliCenter.
 

bbqjosh

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2020
57
Orlando, FL
So we decided to stay with 1 drain in the pool.

Another question... Is it required or recommended to remove the sod prior to installing a pool? If I remove it should it be the entire patio area or only the pool area? Our LDS company doesn't do this so I'm trying to figure out if I need to hire another person to do it prior to the LDS work.
They scrapped the sod off of ours for the whole deck and pool area. It was two full dump trucks full of grass for a 28'x60' area. It is a good idea since they will dig and back fill. You don't want grass back fill. It also leaves room for crushed concrete to be filled in under the pavers. I will probably need some dirt brought back at the end here for final grading.
 

Tegguy

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2019
126
Winter Garden FL
Alright I need some help here (I've reached out to my engineer also) but my LDS company asked me "What is the top of bond beam elevation?" and I wasn't sure what to tell them. Does anyone have any advice?