Pool dig started Manteca, CA

[mihzyd777]

He has to run a completely new pipe back to the pad. Connecting it back into the skimmer line defeats the purpose of separate control. Again, optional.

Yes, that works. For three states, you will need to have three actuators on each of the valves.

Another return line? Fountain?

Not in my wheelhouse.

Thanks as always. So last questions for now.
If I have him upgrade the pool cleaner suction pipe to 2 or 2.5" would that work? It's a much shorter run. Or is there any other reason to have the floor main drains on their own? Will it help with water circulation to keep water temp more even in a 8 ft' deep end?

 

[mas985]

Main drains and wall drains are really only useful for high flow rate applications, such as your descents. For general circulation, they are not need and in fact can be counter productive if not set properly. The way they are plumbed in your system, they can rob the skimmer of flow rate so it is less effective. If you want the circulation pump to run at the lowest RPM possible while still effective cleaning the pool, you will want to shut off the MD almost completely. Having a valve at the pad is just more convenient than having to adjust the flow at the skimmer.

As for the extra line, I would not use it as an extra suction port as it would again rob flow from the skimmers.

Note that having two skimmers requires twice the flow rate as having one skimmer which is almost 8x the energy use so you don't want any of that extra flow coming from somewhere that does not accomplish anything.

 

[mihzyd777]

Ok big piping question. Now that my pool has Gunite it's kinda late to change anything. I was looking iver all the piping and for the 2 skimmers I have he ran 2.5" pipe on both independently back to the pump. Here is the strange part, for the return I have a total of 4 and I thought I had 5 but that's another story. So the return pipe from the pump is 2" inch and runs about 15-20' ft. to pool where it goes up using a 90 degree pipe then downsizes to a 1.5" inch pipe for about 2 ft. Which the goes to a "T" splitter and one 1.5" pipe feeds 2 returns on the left side of pool and the other 1.5" inch pipe goes right and feeds two returns.

What is wrong with this picture?? At this point qould it do any go to have them take that 2" inch return pipe and instead of downsizing to the 1.5" pipe before the "T" splitter take that 2" inch pipe and go all the way to a 2" inch "T" splitter then downsize to the 1.5" inch pipes on each side of that splitter?
Would that help at all?

Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Not necessary at the low rates used in a pool.

 

[mihzyd777]

Not necessary at the low rates used in a pool.

@mknauss Oh ok so it will will be fine then? I will be using a Pentair Intelliflo VSF pump for just the pool filtering and heating it using the AquaCal SQ225 heat pump which according to what I attached, onky required a minimum of 30gpm flow rate.
I guess my only concers was how they went from 2" pipe to a 1.5" and then used a 1.5" inch T splitter from there instead of using a 2" T splitter then downsizing to 1.5".
Also, I read a lot on here with people saying to use 2" or 2.5" for returns which would use less energy to move more water? So as long as I stay below how many GPM will I be fine?
Since we are talking about it, I'm ordering the Intelliflo XF pump for my water features. The pool builder ran 3" inch suction from deep end and then back out returns to waterfalls using 2" inch to each of my 36" sheer rain and another 2.5" pipe to my 8' ft sheer rain, so question is at the manifold by the pump should I have pool builder use a 3" pipe on the return side of the XF pump ?

Thanks again!

 

[mknauss]

@mas985 is much better at the specific flow rates and pipe sizes. For the pool returns though, you will always use relatively low flow rates, so that should not be an issue.

 

[mihzyd777]

Awesome thank you @mknauss!!

@mas985 Is there anything you can add or advise on? Thanks!

 

[mas985]

The way the PB plumbed the return is not ideal but is not a major issue either. I would have gone 2" all the way to each return location and then step down to 1.5" for the short length through the gunite. However, the difference in efficiency is probably very small.

The pool builder ran 3" inch suction from deep end and then back out returns to waterfalls using 2" inch to each of my 36" sheer rain and another 2.5" pipe to my 8' ft sheer rain, so question is at the manifold by the pump should I have pool builder use a 3" pipe on the return side of the XF pump ?

Only if there is enough room to do so and the PB has access to 3" valves. It really won't matter that much head loss wise since the lengths are short but it may help keep the noise down a little.

 

[mihzyd777]

@mas985 so I have 2 questions at this point hopefully you can help with making the decision:

1.) The pool return pipe is 2" inch that then pull a 90 degree turn upward and they used a downsizer to go down to 1.5" inch pipe for about a 1 foot. That 1.5" pipe then goes to a "T" that splits off 1.5" pipe to left side pool returns and 1.5" inch pipe to right side returns. Question is should I have them change that 1 foot long pipe that was downsized to 1.5" back to 2" and have a 2" "T" that then downsizes to each of the 1.5" returns?

2.) Since I have 3" suction coming in for my water features and then 2.5" going to my large 8' rain and 2- 36" rain waterfalls that use 2" inch pipe each, should I have the manifold be 3" pipe since I am using a Intelliflo XF pump that accepts 2.5" or 3" and then downsize after the Jandy valves?

3.) None of the waterfalls will run through the heater or filter. So should I have them install the rock catchers on the back of each waterfall?

Thanks!

 

[mas985]

1)The short length of 1.5" pipe through the pool wall is fine but everything else should be 2".

2) 2.5" is sufficient for the Manifold. However, going 3" could possibly reduce the noise some so it wouldn't hurt.

3) Rock catcher? Not sure what you mean here. The pump has a filter basket which will prevent large objects from getting through the pump.

 

[ajw22]

3.) None of the waterfalls will run through the heater or filter. So should I have them install the rock catchers on the back of each waterfall?

Thanks!

What does the waterfall installation document say about the requirement for a filter?

 

[mihzyd777]

1)The short length of 1.5" pipe through the pool wall is fine but everything else should be 2".

2) 2.5" is sufficient for the Manifold. However, going 3" could possibly reduce the noise some so it wouldn't hurt.

3) Rock catcher? Not sure what you mean here. The pump has a filter basket which will prevent large objects from getting through the pump.

@mas985
1.) So the returns that go around the pool on both side come from a 1.5" pipe that I didn't catch on time. However from where the equipment is, it starts off as 2" pipe and runs about 15' ft. the turns up towards the surface which is where they downsized it to 1.5" pipe before splitting it on a "T" to go left and right around pool that then has 1.5" return pip come through the pool wall. That 1.5' ft. long piece of pipe that goes upward and the "T" specifically is what I am wondering if it should be 2" pipe then downsize the return runs from the "T" to 1.5" pipe that continue around the pool. Hopefully I described that ok.

2.) So 3" would be better you think vs. 2.5" I won't screw anything flow rates or pressures etc... is what I basically want to be sure and if anything would make things run better?

3.) So the Pentair MagicFalls Water Effects documentation states that a rock trap should be used behind each waterfall. All I could find for now is the attached files.

 

[mihzyd777]

What does the waterfall installation document say about the requirement for a filter?

It really doesn't say but I believe @mas985 said that they shouldn't run through either the heater or filter.

 

[mas985]

1) 1.5' is not a big deal.

2) Like I said, 3" might reduce the noise some but not a big deal.

3) There won't be heavy debris.

 

[mihzyd777]

It really doesn't say but I believe @mas985 said that they shouldn't run through either the heater or filter.

It does mention use a 20 micron cartridge filter to supply filtered water but Do Not use DE or sand filter which I have a DE filter. So not sure how the 20 micron filter will connect if needed at all?

 

[ajw22]

It does mention use a 20 micron cartridge filter to supply filtered water but Do Not use DE or sand filter which I have a DE filter. So not sure how the 20 micron filter will connect if needed at all?

That is what I thought. They want you to put a cartridge filter after the pump.

They expect you to have a separate pump and loop for the waterfall.

If you will connect your waterfall to your main VS pump then you should use a cartridge filter not a DE filter. DE filters can leak DE which can get into the waterfall and clog it up. I have seen small waterfall cartridge filters that go before the waterfall to protect it from clogging.

 

[mas985]

With those flow rates, you are going to need a very big cartridge filter perhaps even two since they are rated below 150 GPM.

How large are the openings in the waterfall?

 

[JamesW]

Sheers have thin slits and they definitely should have some sort of filter to prevent debris from getting caught in the slits.

When small rocks get stuck in the slits, they can be very difficult to remove and they break up the sheet of water and ruin the sheet effect.

 

[mihzyd777]

@ajw22 I heard ya and @mas985 brings up a good point I would have a lot of flow for 2 - 36" sheer rain water falls and 1-8' ft. sheer rain waterfall. I'm thinking having the rock trap on the back of each of those will help catch rocks etc that are hard and can clog the falls. What do you all think?

Also, my pool builder called today and tried to tell me to me that I should go 24" wide sheer rain because I have a 4' ft. radius platform they will be sitting on

Sheers have thin slits and they definitely should have some sort of filter to prevent debris from getting caught in the slits.

When small rocks get stuck in the slits, they can be very difficult to remove and they break up the sheet of water and ruin the sheet effect.

Sheers have thin slits and they definitely should have some sort of filter to prevent debris from getting caught in the slits.

When small rocks get stuck in the slits, they can be very difficult to remove and they break up the sheet of water and ruin the sheet effect.

Next question @mas985ho we do I tell my pool builder they can order a Pentair Sheer Rain with a 36" radius? To fit on these pillars? I called Pentair but they weren't much help and basically said yes it can be done and you can find info in manual. So beaides pointing him to manual qhat else can be done lol.

 

[Desert Dog]

@ajw22 I heard ya and @mas985 brings up a good point I would have a lot of flow for 2 - 36" sheer rain water falls and 1-8' ft. sheer rain waterfall. I'm thinking having the rock trap on the back of each of those will help catch rocks etc that are hard and can clog the falls. What do you all think?

Also, my pool builder called today and tried to tell me to me that I should go 24" wide sheer rain because I have a 4' ft. radius platform they will be sitting on


Next question @mas985ho we do I tell my pool builder they can order a Pentair Sheer Rain with a 36" radius? To fit on these pillars? I called Pentair but they weren't much help and basically said yes it can be done and you can find info in manual. So beaides pointing him to manual qhat else can be done lol.

1)Have not followed the whole thread but if your sheer decent water goes through the filter, I dont thing a rock trap is necessary. I believe those are used if you have a separate pump for water features that do not go through the filter.

2) When you order the sheer decent, you get one with the extra long spout. After it is installed, you carefully cut it to the radius. I and others have used an angler grinder to do this. You could lay the sheer decent upside down on the ledge and trace the curve onto the decent with marker for a nice guide. If the pros are doing it, then they will know what to do.