Pool dig started Manteca, CA

[mas985]

According to the manual, you cannot field cut these sheers.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/product-related/product-manuals/pool-and-spa-equipment/magicfalls/MagicFallsWaterEffectsOwnersManualEnglish.pdf

Also, while a rock trap will trap rocks, it isn't likely that you will have large rocks in the lines if the PB is careful during the installation. The real risk is for debris smaller than the pump basket mesh that can get into the return lines. Those types of rain sheers have a finite hole diameter that may or may not be smaller than the pump basket mesh. However, I believe they come with a tool that allows you to clear them if they do clog but I am not sure you would want to rely upon that either.

Here are some posts of people that have had blockage and successfully cleared it:

Sheer Descent blockage

I have two sheer descent waterfalls. Both operate from the same pump. There's is a T-junction that controls flow to each waterfall. One of the waterfalls is no longer spewing water. Even if I set the flow to the highest level and only to this waterfall, the water just trickles down against the...

www.troublefreepool.com

Issue with sheer descent

Hello. Recently, our waterfall (sheer descent type) is not flowing out evenly with gaps of no water on 2 areas so the other areas are spraying out more water and pressure. We tried using a thin tool (like a hacksaw) to probe anything clog inside but there was no resistance that we felt. Any...

www.troublefreepool.com

Adding filters will reduce the risk but not necessarily eliminate the risk as debris can get past when cleaning the filters or when damaged. But since the water is drawn from an MD, it is less likely to get debris in the lines than a skimmer would. It just depends on if you want to take the added risk operating without filters and hoping you can clear any clogs that may occur.

 

[ajw22]

Main purpose of the rock trap is to keep construction debris left in pipes from clogging up the sheers. The pipes may get mud or rocks or plaster in them when they are laid. You often see chunks of plaster coming out of returns of a new pool. This is all after the filter. This debris can get into the sheers during the pool startup.

Once the pool is operational the pump basket and filter should catch stuff.

See the response from CMP in this thread...

Waterfalls Rock Trap

Is the CMP 25577-950-000 Rock Trap Sheer Descent Necessary if the water is filtering through the main Filter. Problem I'm having is how to install it on a bottom port feed. Thanks in advance

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Desert Dog]

Perhaps if it a rain effect, you cannot cut it. I have no experience with those but would imagine the hole cut at an angle would change the effect from hole to hole and thus be an issue. However, If you want the solid curtain of water and get the correct sheer decent you can. As a matter of fact when I ordered mine they asked if it would be installed on a radius and sent me the extra long one so it could be cut to radius. I did it (Owner Builder) and have seen it done by pool builders. Unless we are taking about different products?

 

[mihzyd777]

1)Have not followed the whole thread but if your sheer decent water goes through the filter, I dont thing a rock trap is necessary. I believe those are used if you have a separate pump for water features that do not go through the filter.

2) When you order the sheer decent, you get one with the extra long spout. After it is installed, you carefully cut it to the radius. I and others have used an angler grinder to do this. You could lay the sheer decent upside down on the ledge and trace the curve onto the decent with marker for a nice guide. If the pros are doing it, then they will know what to do.

@Desert Dog Thanks for the reply. Ya we are not going to have the water features go through the filter so that's the reason for the rock traps. The flow would be to high to feed all 3 water features to have it fo through filters.
The pool builder is ordering the sheer rains so I'll let them handle that part. They were on the phone the other day with Pentair to get that ordered correctly as I guess they just give them the radius etc and Pentair cuts it at the factory? Sound familiar? My radius is 2' ft. So can they just order any of those and then cut them?

Thanks!

 

[Desert Dog]

@Desert Dog Thanks for the reply. Ya we are not going to have the water features go through the filter so that's the reason for the rock traps. The flow would be to high to feed all 3 water features to have it fo through filters.
The pool builder is ordering the sheer rains so I'll let them handle that part. They were on the phone the other day with Pentair to get that ordered correctly as I guess they just give them the radius etc and Pentair cuts it at the factory? Sound familiar? My radius is 2' ft. So can they just order any of those and then cut them?

Thanks!

I'm not aware that Pentair offers a cutting service. I was involved with only two sheer decent installs. One on my current home and one on my prior. I only ordered the width I needed and the extra long spout. Then cut the radius needed. It does not look sloppy. Looks factory cut. And the water feature comes with a rock trap. I had it on a raised bond beam with the rear section of the beam visible with a walkway behind it. No room to put a rock trap, but since it goes through the filter, I really did not see the need. I asked or local pool plumbing company about the traps and they say they never use them when the water goes through a filter. I would, in your case install them. I think you would want to cut on sight after installing. Install the feature, tile, then cut it back. That way it does not end up too short or long.

 

[mihzyd777]

This may help on volume flow in pipes.
#1 FlexPVC®.com Water Flow Charts Based on Pipe Size (GPM/GPH) ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"
Water Flow Volume for a given pipe size based on charts, tables, formula, nomograph, & experience.

flexpvc.com

Water features do not need to go through the filter, heater, etc. as their suction is from the main pool and the flow is back to the main pool thus it is all chlorinated water. Having the 2 suction lines tie into 1 suction is normal as that is new code to prevent entrapment Also having the suction on the wall minimizes debris that is sucked into the water feature system as you only have your pump filter basket to catch it.

Having a VSP dedicated pump for your water features is good. Remember to have a valve on each return so you can independently control flow to each.

I could not tell, but are both your skimmers independently plumbed back to the equipment pad. That would be good to have if not done.

Man sorry not sure how I missed this. My pool is about 65% done. They are going to be pouring concrete this weekend coming. So to answer your last question yes both of my skimmers are independently run back using 2.5" pipe back from each to pump. The suction side for the water features is 3" pipe as I had them change it out so we are good there. Also, I ended up upgrading the pump to the Pentair XF pump for the waterfalls and left the VSF pump for filtering the pool.

So I guess question now is this:

1.) Do I need a filter or anything to prevent rock traps from getting caught in the waterfalls?
2.) Do I need to buy a Pentair Rock Trap P/N: 580004?
3.) Is the 2.5" pipe that I have going to the 8' ft. rain water fall that will be mounted to the pergola 7.5' ft up be sufficient?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

1.) Do I need a filter or anything to prevent rock traps from getting caught in the waterfalls?
2.) Do I need to buy a Pentair Rock Trap P/N: 580004?

See post #142.

Pool dig started Manteca, CA

According to the manual, you cannot field cut these sheers. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/product-related/product-manuals/pool-and-spa-equipment/magicfalls/MagicFallsWaterEffectsOwnersManualEnglish.pdf Also, while a rock trap will trap rocks, it isn't likely that you will have...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mihzyd777]

See post #142.

Pool dig started Manteca, CA

According to the manual, you cannot field cut these sheers. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/product-related/product-manuals/pool-and-spa-equipment/magicfalls/MagicFallsWaterEffectsOwnersManualEnglish.pdf Also, while a rock trap will trap rocks, it isn't likely that you will have...

www.troublefreepool.com

Hi I looked at that post and that had more to do with Sheer descents. I m doing sheer rain and it really didn't answer the question other than saying the rock traps are more useful during startup because of debris possibly in pipes. I guess what I want to know then is do I need one on there all the time is it worth even doing or should I just use a Pump basket sock?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

So see post #141.

You don’t need to do anything. If you put in the rock trap then you will not have a rock problen in your sheer rain. If you don’t put in a rock trap then you can have a rock problem. Do you feel lucky?

 

[mihzyd777]

So see post #141.

You don’t need to do anything. If you put in the rock trap then you will not have a rock problen in your sheer rain. If you don’t put in a rock trap then you can have a rock problem. Do you feel lucky?

Ok only problem now is I can't seem to find any by Pentair anywhere online? Any other idea? Will another brand work just as good you think?

 

[JamesW]

Will another brand work just as good you think?

The brand should not matter as long as it's rated for the flow rate.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Can use any brand they are just a T with a longer drop amd a filter screen in them. Make sure to blow pipes out before installing the sheer and you should be ok. The worry isnt only rocks its leaves and debris making it past the pump into the supply side. Thise oak tree helicopters are notorious for clogging sheers