Pool build details

[southbay]

After covid delays, I'm almost at the point of breaking ground on a new pool in Los Angeles. I've appreciated this forum, steering me away from UV / Ozone sanitation (thanks!)

I have a few questions and would love any feedback. Pool is 50' x 14' with 10' x 14' spa inside.

1. Designer found a gorgeous glossy bluegreen ceramic tile that's not pool certified, only bath. Designer says it'll work for pools. Tile manufacturer says not recommended but people have installed similar tiles in pools and none have reported issues. Glaze is acid sensitive. (Abrasion Class 1, chemical resistance Class A, stain resistance Class C, slip resistance < 0.42). Anyone have experience going this route, good or bad? Despite the beauty my gut says don't risk it.

2. I want a play pool with a tiny deep end for diving and have 39' of pool to work with. Proposed depth is below, half 3'6" and half 6'. I think I'd prefer something like 4' or 4.5' all the way across, with the last 5-8' at 5'5" or 6' (instead of 20' of deep end). Does that sound reasonable or does anyone have a better suggestion to get what I want? Don't want a "deep middle" to keep diving and splashing away from a seating area.


3. I'm thinking 400k BTU gas heater + hybrid electric heat pump to maintain swimming temps plus provide a spa heating boost when needed. There is an automatic cover. I hear conflicting things on if a heat pump will provide value in Los Angeles, but I'm willing to be a guinea pig. Roof solar water heater is not an option though I understand it's the most cost efficient. Will have solar power generation eventually that I would plan to leverage. Average ambient temp is 60.2 degrees, above the 50 degree minimum for heat pumps 90% of the year. Anyone else in LA try a heat pump?

4. I want the smoothest possible surface that's not plaster. I've read on here all pebble products are rough; some people get lucky; mostly it's about a good install process. Designer likes Pebble Sheen Black Onyx. I like the feel of the Finest Finish Micro Fusion sample, but their Midnight isn't dark enough to achieve the desired look. Any other suggestions?

4. Current equipment:

- 2 1/2" Pentair commercial grade skimmer
- 2" PVC vacuum line
- 3" PVC jet suction and return for spa jets
- 2" PVC for spa heating and circulation
- 2" PVC booster air blower for spa jets
- 2" overflow pipe
- Jandy RS I-Aqualink 900
- Jandy 4 function spa controller
- 5 Pentair Glow Brite low voltage color lights
- Pentair 400k BTU Mastertemp heater
- Pentair Ultratemp ETi Hybrid heat pump + gas heater
- Pentair 520 Clean & Clear cartridge filter
- Pentair variable speed Intelliflow pump
- Pentair 2 HP whisperflow jet pump
- 2 HP silencer air blower
- Pentair 1 1/2 HP water feature pump
- Pentair Intellichlor salt system

Last time someone recommended a Raypak heater so I'll look into those again. Open to any other suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

 

[mknauss]

Why do you have Jandy automation and Pentair equipment? Get the Intellicenter. Also beware of the Hybrid heater. Better off to get both a Heat Pump (which I doubt will work all that well in Los Angeles) and a gas heater. GloBrite lights fail often. Budget for failure every 2-3 years. $600+ a piece.

 

[mknauss]

Your pool is not deep enough for diving. I believe it must be 8' deep for that.

 

[ajw22]

For a diving pool it must meet ANSI/APSP/ICC-5 2011 Standard for Residential In-Ground Swimming Pools.

The minimum requirements the pool must be a minimum of 16ft wide and 32ft long and have at least an 8 ft hopper. The hopper is the area in the deep end which the water is deeper.

Building a Pool for Diving - Dive Pool Options

Building a Pool for Diving - what's involved in building a very deep inground pool for diving practice in your own backyard. Is a 1-m board even allowed?

blog.intheswim.com

https://www.srsmith.com/media/47241/06-052ansi-standard.pdf

______________________________________

Why are you getting a Jandy Aqualink automation with all Pentair equipment? Get the Pentair IntelliCenter.

How many gallons will be in the pool?

What size IntelliChlor cell?

You want an IntelliFlo VSF 011056 pump.

Get another IntelliFlo VSF pump instead of the WhisperFlo pump.

What water features will you have with the water feature pump?

A pool in the 21st century should not be built with a vacuum line. Use a robot pool cleaner.

GloBrite lights have poor reliability and use a proprietary niche. Use MicroBrite lights.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

Also, check with your insurance company if they will insure a pool with a diving board. Some folks have found their insurance company will not insure a house with a diving board.

 

[Cena_sea]

I am jealous of the length--I think it will look impressive. Width was an issue for us but we could've had more length which I nixed because it seemed long enough. While it was being built I discovered the local swim clubs start really young for the swim team--I was like, oh maybe we should've gone longer. I also didn't realize how early the kids are doing laps in their swim classes.

For your number four question, I'm surprised your designer hasn't mentioned Primera stone. It is a smoother stone premium finish.

As for the non pool rated tile, I would try to find another tile that I’d think was as awesome. I’d worry long term about how that tile would take muriatic acid or constant chlorine over time. So I'd start looking at other options from different manufacturers.

 

[southbay]

Why do you have Jandy automation and Pentair equipment? Get the Intellicenter. Also beware of the Hybrid heater. Better off to get both a Heat Pump (which I doubt will work all that well in Los Angeles) and a gas heater. GloBrite lights fail often. Budget for failure every 2-3 years. $600+ a piece.

PB specified the equipment, probably from personal preference. I will ask about Intellicenter.

I assume hybrid heater = trying to do too much in one device and harder to maintain. I was sold on the idea of 510k gas when needed, or heat pump otherwise for slow and steady.

Yikes, those lights are pricey. I'll look at Microbrite mentioned below.

 

[southbay]

Your pool is not deep enough for diving. I believe it must be 8' deep for that.

Thanks everyone who called me out on this, bad word choice. I meant to say "jumping into a deep end", not diving nor diving board. My kids always jump into the deep end of any pool, so I figure I should offer something.

 

[southbay]

Why are you getting a Jandy Aqualink automation with all Pentair equipment? Get the Pentair IntelliCenter.

Agreed with the above, thank you. Looking at notes, the intent was for the Jandy to also control landscape lighting and other features. But I'm sure IntelliCenter can do that too.

How many gallons will be in the pool?

My calculations are 15,600. I will ask PB to confirm, but it's also going to depend on my depths as I'm planning to change them as referenced above.

What size IntelliChlor cell?

That is not specified in the build of materials, I will ask.

You want an IntelliFlo VSF 011056 pump.

Get another IntelliFlo VSF pump instead of the WhisperFlo pump.

Thank you! Will look into this.

What water features will you have with the water feature pump?

My guess is that is a relic from an older config and I need to remove it. (At one time I was looking at swim jets and also the in-pool fountain jets, but decided against both).

A pool in the 21st century should not be built with a vacuum line. Use a robot pool cleaner.

OK. I had asked my PB about planning for a Dolphin and he said to use "The Pool Cleaner".


Thanks everyone for the responses, I appreciate them.

 

[southbay]

I am jealous of the length--I think it will look impressive. Width was an issue for us but we could've had more length which I nixed because it seemed long enough. While it was being built I discovered the local swim clubs start really young for the swim team--I was like, oh maybe we should've gone longer. I also didn't realize how early the kids are doing laps in their swim classes.

For your number four question, I'm surprised your designer hasn't mentioned Primera stone. It is a smoother stone premium finish.

As for the non pool rated tile, I would try to find another tile that I’d think was as awesome. I’d worry long term about how that tile would take muriatic acid or constant chlorine over time. So I'd start looking at other options from different manufacturers.

Thank you for the note - I was originally going to go shorter, but a hotel pool changed my mind.

I will look into Primera stone , haven't seen any samples of it yet.

I appreciate the tile notes. I was planning to do a muriatic acid test (let it sit on my tile samples for a week) but that's not quite the same as day in, day out pool chemical exposure.

 

[ajw22]

You do not need a Pentair 400k BTU Mastertemp heater -and a- Pentair Ultratemp ETi Hybrid heat pump + gas heater.

That is two gas heaters and a Heat Pump.

The ETI Hybrid heaters costs more then separate MasterTemp 400 and UltraTemp Heat
pump heater. And when one side breaks you can be looking at replacing both with a hybrid. Better to have individual units then a combo unit.

I suggest you leave enough room on the equipment pad for the Heat Pump and just get the gas heater. Live with it for a season or two and see if you really have a need for the HP.

 

[ajw22]

Look at Hydrazoo polished quartz finish.

 

[Cena_sea]

I would still do a muriatic acid test on a sample because if it failed then it’s an easy no. In some ways that would be easier.

I also fell for gorgeous tile that was not pool rated (marble tile). My plan is to still use it on a future bathroom remodel.

 

[kimkats]

people have installed similar tiles in pools and none have reported issues.

Says who? I would not even take the chance unless your wallet is fat enough to pay someone to come out and remove that tile and put in new tile.

 

[wireform]

The beauty of this forum is everyone chimes in where they shine and then you run with the advice given. Going against the advice will get you in trouble down the line. If I were you I'd only go with a pool rated tile and just find something close.

 

[shashivr4]

After covid delays, I'm almost at the point of breaking ground on a new pool in Los Angeles. I've appreciated this forum, steering me away from UV / Ozone sanitation (thanks!)

I have a few questions and would love any feedback. Pool is 50' x 14' with 10' x 14' spa inside.

1. Designer found a gorgeous glossy bluegreen ceramic tile that's not pool certified, only bath. Designer says it'll work for pools. Tile manufacturer says not recommended but people have installed similar tiles in pools and none have reported issues. Glaze is acid sensitive. (Abrasion Class 1, chemical resistance Class A, stain resistance Class C, slip resistance < 0.42). Anyone have experience going this route, good or bad? Despite the beauty my gut says don't risk it.

2. I want a play pool with a tiny deep end for diving and have 39' of pool to work with. Proposed depth is below, half 3'6" and half 6'. I think I'd prefer something like 4' or 4.5' all the way across, with the last 5-8' at 5'5" or 6' (instead of 20' of deep end). Does that sound reasonable or does anyone have a better suggestion to get what I want? Don't want a "deep middle" to keep diving and splashing away from a seating area.

View attachment 394694
3. I'm thinking 400k BTU gas heater + hybrid electric heat pump to maintain swimming temps plus provide a spa heating boost when needed. There is an automatic cover. I hear conflicting things on if a heat pump will provide value in Los Angeles, but I'm willing to be a guinea pig. Roof solar water heater is not an option though I understand it's the most cost efficient. Will have solar power generation eventually that I would plan to leverage. Average ambient temp is 60.2 degrees, above the 50 degree minimum for heat pumps 90% of the year. Anyone else in LA try a heat pump?

4. I want the smoothest possible surface that's not plaster. I've read on here all pebble products are rough; some people get lucky; mostly it's about a good install process. Designer likes Pebble Sheen Black Onyx. I like the feel of the Finest Finish Micro Fusion sample, but their Midnight isn't dark enough to achieve the desired look. Any other suggestions?

4. Current equipment:

- 2 1/2" Pentair commercial grade skimmer
- 2" PVC vacuum line
- 3" PVC jet suction and return for spa jets
- 2" PVC for spa heating and circulation
- 2" PVC booster air blower for spa jets
- 2" overflow pipe
- Jandy RS I-Aqualink 900
- Jandy 4 function spa controller
- 5 Pentair Glow Brite low voltage color lights
- Pentair 400k BTU Mastertemp heater
- Pentair Ultratemp ETi Hybrid heat pump + gas heater
- Pentair 520 Clean & Clear cartridge filter
- Pentair variable speed Intelliflow pump
- Pentair 2 HP whisperflow jet pump
- 2 HP silencer air blower
- Pentair 1 1/2 HP water feature pump
- Pentair Intellichlor salt system

Last time someone recommended a Raypak heater so I'll look into those again. Open to any other suggestions.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

We’re just building our first pool so def not an expert by any means. However, we also want a sports pool and have 41’ in length to work with. We are going with the following pool depths to allow plenty of 4’ space plus a 5’ section for wither activities. (dig is in-process):

 

[Gladius Nova]

Just to play the "devil's advocate", we have a neighbor who has a tile choice that is not pool rated (bath rated). He is going into his 6th season with no issues. IJS.

 

[southbay]

We’re just building our first pool so def not an expert by any means. However, we also want a sports pool and have 41’ in length to work with. We are going with the following pool depths to allow plenty of 4’ space plus a 5’ section for wither activities. (dig is in-process):

View attachment 394879

This is exactly the type of data I was looking for, thank you for sharing!

 

[southbay]

I've read through enough of the forums to know this is a personal choice, but I'm trying to come up with something that facilitates:

• lap swimming
• maximized play area
• smallest possible jumping in feet first /cannonball end

This is what I'm currently envisioning for depth:



3.5' water depth entry, 4' water depth section would be the play area for volleyball etc, 5.5' water depth end for cannonballs / feet first jumps or taller players.

The steps span half the width, so the other half is open for lap swimming. (I've read people can drag knuckles at 3.5' so we'll see if I can test somewhere first).

Does this seem like realistic expectations, or am I off somewhere? Just noticing maybe I need 6' for the 1.5' transition and not 4'. And maybe the entry steps need more room before a drop off. The last step is 6' in from the edge currently.

 

[beakerlab]

I've read through enough of the forums to know this is a personal choice, but I'm trying to come up with something that facilitates:

• lap swimming
• maximized play area
• smallest possible jumping in feet first /cannonball end

This is what I'm currently envisioning for depth:

View attachment 396208

3.5' water depth entry, 4' water depth section would be the play area for volleyball etc, 5.5' water depth end for cannonballs / feet first jumps or taller players.

The steps span half the width, so the other half is open for lap swimming. (I've read people can drag knuckles at 3.5' so we'll see if I can test somewhere first).

Does this seem like realistic expectations, or am I off somewhere? Just noticing maybe I need 6' for the 1.5' transition and not 4'. And maybe the entry steps need more room before a drop off. The last step is 6' in from the edge currently.

Similar design and intent for our pool, laps and volleyball. We're waiting on plaster. We went with a depth of 4' to 6'. Enough to flip turn in and launch.