Not enough water on spa jets

[Ti3155]

I will check and see if I have pictures of the spa plumbing but I was here when they build it , I remember it was look like that (with loop)

Another thing I want you ask because I think the building mixed the air line with the jets line (just thinking about it) he marked the "air line" and the guy who ran it to the pad connect it to the blower , now let's say I drain the spa completely, then I want to fill it back (in pool mode) I only get water coming out of the "jets" very weakly, I suspect now the jets are connected to the air and the air line is connected To the water so the water comes from the top not straight from the spa , I called a friend who knows a bit and he flip the plumbing then I set in pool mode and I got very high pressure jets coming out of the jets ,like shooting water. I wasn't sure if thar was right and I flip the pipes back and leave it that way , the reason why is because once the water reach the jet line (cover them) you can't really feel them anymore ,

My question is .. is the spa jets supposed to shoot water or should act as a return ?

Look at the image maybe you understand.

The spa is currently filling very weak but again if I change the pipe back it'll shoot the water again but it doesn't improve the jets,

If you think this is one of the problems I'll change it I just wasn't sure how the spa supposed to work , also one of the reasons I did that is bc I think the blower stopped working several times because it was over heating could be due to water in the pipe so that why I belived the water coming from the water line so I swap it

 

[Ti3155]

I also went to my friend's house who building a spa now with a named contractor and his plumbing looks exactly like mine (similar to the picture) with the loop , the only thing he uses 2.5" pipes so I compared it to my plumbing and it looks about the same

 

[Ti3155]

This is what I think is in my case now , maybe that's where my gpm and headl loss is ? Maybe I just needed to replace the nozzle (not the nuzzle) lol

 

[Ti3155]

I have another idea , how about if I leave the 2" return line , I'll downgrade the pipe from 2" from the spa air line to 1" and ill run it about 10' away from the spa , direct it up by 2' above the spa water line and use it as an air for the jets , then I'll cap it with a small valve or something so I can control the amount of air or I should simply leave it open ?

I'd love to use 1" bc I want to attach it to my fence and paint the pipe black so no one see it , I prefer simulation of air and water than bouncing water over the spa coping , then I will see more action in the spa without running the blower .

I wad thinking about it because that will give me an open spot on my psl4 becsuse i will remove the blower , then i can do the bypass for the heater and use the open port with another actuator, i read about connecting 2 actuators to one port it can cause damge to the board.

whats your thoughts,?



See my diagrame thanks

 

[mas985]

This is what I think is in my case now , maybe that's where my gpm and headl loss is ? Maybe I just needed to replace the nozzle (not the nuzzle) lol

That is certainly possible if the PB does not know what they are doing. But it would also mean the venturi tees would need to be replumbed.

You remember. My blower is 100+ feet away at the pad , do you mean simply removing the blower from top of the 2" pipe and leave it open just like that? No special cap or anything ?

You would put 2 90's on the air line so the opening is pointing downwards so that nothing can fall into the line. You can also put a screen over the end of the open pipe to prevent critters from entering.

I have another idea , how about if I leave the 2" return line , I'll downgrade the pipe from 2" from the spa air line to 1" and ill run it about 10' away from the spa , direct it up by 2' above the spa water line and use it as an air for the jets , then I'll cap it with a small valve or something so I can control the amount of air or I should simply leave it open ?

Bad idea. Air lines need to be large to prevent any restriction.

But before going down this route, we really need to figure out what the problem is. The pump measurements will really help with that.

The VS pump should display, GPM and pump pressure. So please post GPM, pump pressure and filter pressure for the follow scenarios ALL at full speed:

Pool Only Mode
Spa Spillover Mode
Spa Only Mode

 

[mas985]

Here is another way to do the spa air line.

 

[Ti3155]

Ok, great , did you read my comment on the swapped pipe? Air/water

 

[Ti3155]

Here is another way to do the spa air line.

View attachment 407016

So in this case I can't control the air that coming through the jets correct ? It'll be as is and what ever power the line has to get the air in that's what it is. I guess the only way to control the power of the jets/air with this type of air line would be by how fast I'm running the pump , is this has to be close to the spa or 100+ feet away should work bc I can do it much much closer to the spa

 

[mas985]

The power of jets has nothing to do with the air. It is all about flow rate so yes, you use the RPM of the pump to control the power. But the jets are so underpowered right now. The air simply makes the jet pulsate so either you want that or you don't. If you don't want pulsating jets, and I don't know who doesn't, then you can use a valve to shut off the air.

As for the distance, it really depends on if the spa has a Hartford loop installed in the air line and if the pump is uphill from spa. This will determine how much water gets in the air line and how hard it is to evacuate with the venturi's. This is the reason most PBs use blowers because they don't have to think about the hydraulics that way.

Ok, great , did you read my comment on the swapped pipe? Air/water

Yes, that is why I responded:

That is certainly possible if the PB does not know what they are doing. But it would also mean the venturi tees would need to be replumbed.

Third attempt:

The VS pump should display, GPM and pump pressure. So please post GPM, pump pressure and filter pressure for the follow scenarios ALL at full speed:

Pool Only Mode
Spa Spillover Mode
Spa Only Mode

 

[Ti3155]

I have the loop, and the swap pipe is under the grass I think the air is going to the water line (from the blower) instead of to the air line and the water are coming from the loop .

I was asking if the jets need to "shoot the water) or should comes out as a return ? Bc I had this in the past and I swapped it

 

[mas985]

Water should come out of the nozzle at high velocity. If it dribbles out, it is on the wrong pipe.

BTW, standard pool returns are similar to nozzles just not as high a velocity. But those too should shoot out when the pump is at full speed.

Exactly how are you swapping the air and water lines? This is not a normal capability.

 

[Ti3155]

So , what happened the pool builder played games and I fired him , so I start sub each phase , one of the contractors who built the spa make me feel like he's doing me a favor took his $ and I fired him as well , so I had to hire another contractor for the plumbing ,

I called the contractor who built the spa and asking him to mark the airline so I know where to connect the air so I connect it where he marked the air.

Then I had a guy who did my pool equipment at the pad , we see the water very weak from the spa , he found out that the airline is switched and switched it back .

Time pass and I still didn't have enough pressure so I decide to run the 2" lines to blower and jets and see no improvement, so I decided to switch it back to the marked pipe , since then I'm struggle on how its supposed to be that's why I want to switch it back bc you mentioned it's should shoot the water out , and I'll cut the blower by exposing the pipe up on the ground so I get air closer to the spa ,

One more thing, let's say if I do the airline for the spa with 2" pipe as you mentions, adding 3 way valve , the reason for the 3 way valve is to change the direction where the air is coming from , I want to keep the blower just in case so that way I can change it between air from earth or air from the blower , is that possible ?

I just hired the wrong person and I had to deal with stupid people so I'm trying to solve everything myself bc im tired of "professionals" lol

 

[Ti3155]

Water should come out of the nozzle at high velocity. If it dribbles out, it is on the wrong pipe.

BTW, standard pool returns are similar to nozzles just not as high a velocity. But those too should shoot out when the pump is at full speed.

Exactly how are you swapping the air and water lines? This is not a normal capability.

As for the returns in the pool I can feel the difference, I can also see the water movement by changing the direction of the eyeball so the return are OK

 

[mas985]

I think I understand a little better now the situation.

One more thing, let's say if I do the airline for the spa with 2" pipe as you mentions, adding 3 way valve , the reason for the 3 way valve is to change the direction where the air is coming from , I want to keep the blower just in case so that way I can change it between air from earth or air from the blower , is that possible ?

That should work ok. The valve is going to be placed near the spa where the air vent would be?

 

[Ti3155]

I think I understand a little better now the situation.


That should work ok. The valve is going to be placed near the spa where the air vent would be?

Excellent, I'll try that after I swap the pipes and I'll add the 3 way valve

 

[Ti3155]

I think I understand a little better now the situation.


That should work ok. The valve is going to be placed near the spa where the air vent would be?

Hey , so I got the new nozzles and seems like smaller opening but bigger on the other side. Attached pics of what I had before and the new one I just got seems like will not fit , any idea what I need to look for ?

Mayne you know part # ? I can also do 1/4" but I prefer the 4" long thanks
Thanks

 

[mas985]

This is why I suggested earlier to confirm the brand of the nozzle you have. Most likely it is not a Waterway nozzle. Again, they are not all the same.

Worst case, you can fill the nozzle end with epoxy and drill a new hole.

 

[Ti3155]

Oh wow i never tough about that lol
I cant tell you if it's waterway or not but do you have an idea the size of the head I needed?

 

[Megahurtz]

Just wanted to also confirm when my spa/pool was finished the techs would empty the spa to the pool and refill. Water was spraying very hard back into the empty spa. Was splashing everywhere until it got filled up and then would bubble normally.

Here is what I have in my air line

 

[Ti3155]

Just wanted to also confirm when my spa/pool was finished the techs would empty the spa to the pool and refill. Water was spraying very hard back into the empty spa. Was splashing everywhere until it got filled up and then would bubble normally.

Here is what I have in my air line
View attachment 408415

Could you please tell me how far this pipe from your spa ?
Is it pushing air when the jets running ?
And what is the speed you running in spa mode?
Thanks