- May 3, 2007
- 17,401
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Not enough water on spa jets
- Thread starter Ti3155
- Start date
- May 3, 2007
- 17,401
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Bypass will never be on in pool mode. It will only be on in spa mode. Spa on/pool off, bypass on. Spa off/pool on, bypass off.
This is not an uncommon feature and any competent pool professional should know how to install it properly.
Last edited:
I think I'll pass on the bypass for now , I don't think it will effect the pressure in the spa (in spa mode) it would be the same, I rather go step by step starting With smaller nuzzle and if I don't see any improvement I will replace the drain with 3" and 2.5" for the return (but again , I'll go step by step , first 3" with existing 2" if not improvement I'll go with 2.5" I think that should be the best way to go from here .
- May 3, 2007
- 17,401
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Why do you think that? The filter and heater have a lot of head loss.
For 5/16" jets, each jet requires about 10 GPM or 60 GPM total. Here is the head loss for the pipe vs heater + filter:
100' of 2" Pipe: 5' of head loss @ 60 GPM
100' of 1.5" Pipe: 19' of head loss @ 60 GPM
24" Sand Filter 2" MPV: 9' of head loss @ 60 GPM
NG Heater: 7' of head loss @ 60 GPM
So the filter and heater together have 16' of head loss which is comparable to the 1.5" pipe. So not at all insignificant.
BTW, with the current jets, what is the filter pressure when operating the spa?
I did a full head loss calculation on your system and the current operating point should be around 67 GPM @ 90' of head when the pump is on full speed. This would equate to a filter pressure of around 19 PSI.
When was the filter last backwashed?
Also, the simulation predicts the pump would be in cavitation at full speed. Does the pump sound like it is pumping gravel when at full speed?
Last edited:
Pump sounds good , no cavitation .
I backwash every week
The pressure is 25psi at 3450
So you mean I'm good without the bypass ? Or I should do it anyway Id hate to mess with the system during the summer Time I don't want any surprises.
I backwash every week
The pressure is 25psi at 3450
So you mean I'm good without the bypass ? Or I should do it anyway Id hate to mess with the system during the summer Time I don't want any surprises.
So you mean in order to get 60gpm I will need to add the bypass ? Or just reduce the nuzzle for now ?
Again , my drain is 1.5 return is 2
Again , my drain is 1.5 return is 2
- May 3, 2007
- 17,401
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
If you are only getting 40 GPM, the new nozzles will not help with that. It will just make what you are getting now feel stronger. But 40 GPM is still not enough so something else will need to be done.
Right which is why I asked the question about filter pressure. You have much higher filter pressure than what I was predicting which indicates more restriction on the pressure side than what I was modeling. So there is something else causing higher head loss than what I would have expected with that setup. It could be one of several things.
-If the filter is clean, that rules out one item.
-In your pad picture, there appears to be a fitting of some sort on one of the return lines. Is that a check valve on the spa return line? If so, check valve do fail and can cause a lot of head loss when they do fail. You might want to disassemble that fitting and check to make sure it is operating properly.
-The only other possibility is that there is some blockage in that line. Has this problem always occurred since the pool/spa was built? The line may never have been cleared properly after construction.
One more question, does the filter have a 2" or 1.5" MPV?
Last edited:
the filter is clean.
-In your pad picture, there appears to be a fitting of some sort on one of the return lines. Is that a check valve on the spa return line? If so, check valve do fail and can cause a lot of head loss when they do fail. You might want to disassemble that fitting and check to make sure it is operating properly.
The check valve is in good condition
-The only other possibility is that there is some blockage in that line. Has this problem always occurred since the pool/spa was built? The line may never have been cleared properly after construction.
That’s why I wanted to change the suction line, could be something in there so I want to start fresh with new drain line.
One more question, does the filter have a 2" or 1.5" MPV
I think it’s 2” , all the plumbing coming as 1.5” and upgrade to 2” at the pad , pump , filter, heather etc...
That was from day one actually , idk how the built it , this is so stupid , the only time I can feel I’m in the spa it’s when I run the blower other than that it’s very weak even on spa mode.
That’s why I want to change it with 3” pipe on the suction to get more water to the pump , I just not sure what else to do to be honest.
-In your pad picture, there appears to be a fitting of some sort on one of the return lines. Is that a check valve on the spa return line? If so, check valve do fail and can cause a lot of head loss when they do fail. You might want to disassemble that fitting and check to make sure it is operating properly.
The check valve is in good condition
-The only other possibility is that there is some blockage in that line. Has this problem always occurred since the pool/spa was built? The line may never have been cleared properly after construction.
That’s why I wanted to change the suction line, could be something in there so I want to start fresh with new drain line.
One more question, does the filter have a 2" or 1.5" MPV
I think it’s 2” , all the plumbing coming as 1.5” and upgrade to 2” at the pad , pump , filter, heather etc...
That was from day one actually , idk how the built it , this is so stupid , the only time I can feel I’m in the spa it’s when I run the blower other than that it’s very weak even on spa mode.
That’s why I want to change it with 3” pipe on the suction to get more water to the pump , I just not sure what else to do to be honest.
I will try to give another example see what you think ..
So when I run in pool mode with spillway at 2300 , I can see and feel the returns in the pool pretty good , in 2300 I’m getting app 30gpm , the return split as the following , 1 pipe goes from the pad to 1 return and 1 pipe feeding 3 returns , in addition 1 pipe 2” is feeeding the 6 jets to the spa , so basicly what I’m saying I see good movement at the pool with only 1.5” drain , 2 skimmers that each is Plum separate , so here the main drain for the spa is closed bc it’s running as a pool mode.
So my question is , how I can see good movement in each return at the pool while it’s sending the same amount of water to the spa and I barely feel it ?
Maybe the stupid builder did not plumbed the spa currently? I remember I see how they plumbed it and it looks like other spas , with the jet , air , loop etc...
As soon as I filled the spa it hasn’t have too much pressure so I changed the air and jets with 2” but not the drain , the md for the spa have 6 90’s as far as I remember because they ran it like idiots going around big rock that was on the ground ,
But maybe I get this wrong , but what my eyes see is actually water coming out of the pool returns and barely nothing from the spa , of course there are some water going to the spa bc the spill way works and I can feel some but not even close to what I feel at the pool and the pool returns only 1.5”
Sorry but I’m so lost here , could be bc the spa have 6 jets and the returns getting the water from its own dedicated lines for the pad ? And the spa have its own dedicated line and there is enough water going to the spa but bc ipits 6 jets I don’t feel it good ?
I can tell you one thing I tried , I plugged 2 or 3 of the spa returns and touched the other that I leave open and I felt a lot of water pressure coming out of the jet is that make sense ? Maybe that’s how we know it’s not clogged and we only need to provide more water by plumb is with 3” at lease I will have better flow when I’m in spa mode and less pressure when I’m in pool mode ? Is that makes sense?
But again , let’s say I run at 3450 in pool mode , even if I close the pool returns and run the water back to the spa I can have 62 gym and still feel it very weak, I will have to try reduce the muzzle first and we will go from there.
So when I run in pool mode with spillway at 2300 , I can see and feel the returns in the pool pretty good , in 2300 I’m getting app 30gpm , the return split as the following , 1 pipe goes from the pad to 1 return and 1 pipe feeding 3 returns , in addition 1 pipe 2” is feeeding the 6 jets to the spa , so basicly what I’m saying I see good movement at the pool with only 1.5” drain , 2 skimmers that each is Plum separate , so here the main drain for the spa is closed bc it’s running as a pool mode.
So my question is , how I can see good movement in each return at the pool while it’s sending the same amount of water to the spa and I barely feel it ?
Maybe the stupid builder did not plumbed the spa currently? I remember I see how they plumbed it and it looks like other spas , with the jet , air , loop etc...
As soon as I filled the spa it hasn’t have too much pressure so I changed the air and jets with 2” but not the drain , the md for the spa have 6 90’s as far as I remember because they ran it like idiots going around big rock that was on the ground ,
But maybe I get this wrong , but what my eyes see is actually water coming out of the pool returns and barely nothing from the spa , of course there are some water going to the spa bc the spill way works and I can feel some but not even close to what I feel at the pool and the pool returns only 1.5”
Sorry but I’m so lost here , could be bc the spa have 6 jets and the returns getting the water from its own dedicated lines for the pad ? And the spa have its own dedicated line and there is enough water going to the spa but bc ipits 6 jets I don’t feel it good ?
I can tell you one thing I tried , I plugged 2 or 3 of the spa returns and touched the other that I leave open and I felt a lot of water pressure coming out of the jet is that make sense ? Maybe that’s how we know it’s not clogged and we only need to provide more water by plumb is with 3” at lease I will have better flow when I’m in spa mode and less pressure when I’m in pool mode ? Is that makes sense?
But again , let’s say I run at 3450 in pool mode , even if I close the pool returns and run the water back to the spa I can have 62 gym and still feel it very weak, I will have to try reduce the muzzle first and we will go from there.
Btw the reason why I’m getting 62gpm is because the main drain is 1.5 , one skimmer is 1.5 and one skimmer is 2” (I was able to change it myself when I fix my deck) and I believe that’s why I’m getting over 60 however , if I’m getting over 60 gpm in pool mode and let’s say close the return to the pool , reduce the spa nuzzle , I should feel much better pressure in the spa jets is that sounds right ?
Another idea of simulation of the spa , I can easily access the pipe from the blower , maybe I can in addition to reducing the nuzzle , I can cut the pipe that goes to the blower , and I can add a loop , approximately 10’ from the spa and cap it for air , so I can control the air suction , that way I can get the effect of the jets , I hate to use the blower as it’s too loud and we can barely talk in the spa , any suggestions how I can avoid using the blower and suck the air manually ? Or you think I will not have enough air suction bc the spa water flow is not the best.
- May 3, 2007
- 17,401
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I was referring to the return line, not the suction line. The suction line is definitely a problem but I also believe there is a problem on the return side of the pump as well. As I mentioned previously, my predictions are for a lower filter pressure (due to high head loss on the suction side) but you are experience the opposite which indicates higher than expect return head loss.
Remove all the jet fittings and nozzles. Run the pump and flush the lines.
Because the problem is not on the pad but somewhere after the pipe splits to the spa. More than likely, the issue is with the replaced 2" line (as well as the suction line). The only solution may be to replace both at the same time. It is expensive to rip up concrete and expose those lines so you might as well do both.
That is what I am thinking as well. It could be the lines but it also could be the plumbing around the spa and to the jets. The entire plumbing might need to be replaced.
No, as I said before, the problem is likely after the pad equipment. The pool and spa only share pad equipment and if the pool is working ok, then it is likely nothing on the pad. The only thing left is the plumbing to/from the spa and the plumbing around the spa.
That won't work because you are just forcing the water into the air lines. You cannot plug a spa jet that way. You actually have to plug the nozzle itself.
Again, I don't think replacing the nozzle will help enough. The extra head loss is still there restricting the flow rate.
If designed properly, a spa does not require a blower. My spa does not have a blower and it works just fine. More than enough bubbles. The problem is that most PBs do not understand hydraulics very well as so we see a lot of spa jet problems here. Most of the time, it is due to plumbing that is too small for the spa jet flow rates as in your case.
But if you want to operate without the blower, just remove the blower from the pipe. But again, this will not help your situation much because of the excess head loss for the wet plumbing.
Do you have pictures of the spa when they were building it? With the exposed pipe?
A couple more questions for troubleshooting.
The VS pump should display, GPM and pump pressure. So please post GPM, pump pressure and filter pressure for the follow scenarios ALL at full speed:
Pool Only Mode
Spa Spillover Mode
Spa Only Mode
Last edited:
- Jul 20, 2007
- 136
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Haha thank you I did not pay attention.
So , I personally ran the new 2" to the spa returns and it was clean and clear but I will post what you asked thanks
So , I personally ran the new 2" to the spa returns and it was clean and clear but I will post what you asked thanks
RE: Because the problem is not on the pad but somewhere after the pipe splits to the spa. More than likely, the issue is with the replaced 2" line (as well as the suction line). The only solution may be to replace both at the same time. It is expensive to rip up concrete and expose those lines so you might as well do both.
OK. so maybe I'd just run 2 new lines for that. The new return is not under the concrete its under the grass so that's an easy access. As far as the suction I will need to cut the concrete but I will only do it when I'm doing my pavers in several months.
OK. so maybe I'd just run 2 new lines for that. The new return is not under the concrete its under the grass so that's an easy access. As far as the suction I will need to cut the concrete but I will only do it when I'm doing my pavers in several months.
You remember. My blower is 100+ feet away at the pad , do you mean simply removing the blower from top of the 2" pipe and leave it open just like that? No special cap or anything ?
Am I required to build a loop close to the spa ? I can do it without a problem , the loop will be close to the spa , maybe 10' from the spa , maybe that's a better option ? So simply cut the pipe and keep it open? Then when the pump running at full speed it will suck air ? What you think ?