Not enough water on spa jets

[Ti3155]

I'm just not sure what's the heater had to do with water coming back to the spa

 

[Ti3155]

I can replace the nuzzle ok (I did in the past didn't change too much ,

Don't you think I'm not pulling enough water with 1.5" to feed back 6 returns in spa ?

 

[Ti3155]

I think it's TA60

 

[Ti3155]

As my understanding the ta60 Is 60gpm , I would love to be close to it , currently I'm on 40 , its 6.5gpm for each return , it's nothing , if I can get close to 10 I think it'll be much better, so the question is if changing 2.5" pipe instead of the 1.5" will help

 

[Ti3155]

I found 5,16 nuzzle I can order and check it hope will change something,

What Is the purpose of the nuzzle anyway , my friends have regular eyeballs on their spa and seems be have better water pressure , do I really have to use a nuzzle ? Just wonder what they do ?

 

[Ti3155]

So I found this , I will replace it and see how it goes I will keep you posted , if you think I will still need to replace the pipe to 2.5" on the suction line please lmk thanks

 

[mas985]

I'm just not sure what's the heater had to do with water coming back to the spa

Every piece of plumbing adds head loss. Heaters, filters, pipe, fittings, valves and even the spa jet nozzles themselves adds head loss. The more head loss there is in a plumbing system, the less flow rate the pump can produce. For more details, you can read the Hydraulics 101 sticky in my signature.

Spa jets can and do work properly when designed properly. I have a spa with 6 x 3/8" jets which if you look at the table I posted earlier, require about 16 GPM each for a moderate strength. I have a 1 HP full rated pump as my jet pump so it can produce the appropriate flow rate. However, the spa has all 2.5" plumbing NO heater and NO filter in line with the spa jets so a smaller pump works fine in that situation.

Your situation has several factors that prevent good performance. Small pipes, heater, filter and large jets are not a good combination. As I posted earlier, 7/16" jets require 22 GPM in order to provide 15 PSI of pressure strength. This is about 35' of head loss. 6 jets at 22 GPM each is 132 GPM total. In order for the Intelliflo to produce 132 GPM, there needs to be less than 60' of total head. Since the spa jets require 35' of head, that leaves only 25' for everything else. At 132 GPM, a typical heater will have 35' of head so already too much head loss. That is the problem.

Now to the solution(s).

1) Reduce the amount of flow rate each jet needs. This can be done by reducing the jet size orifice

2) Eliminate the heater and filter from the plumbing loop. A bypass can be used for this.

3) Up size the piping.

You can do one of all of these things but it makes more sense to start with cheaper options first. So I would try each of these things in succession.

However, given you are only seeing about 40 GPM which means you have a bigger problem than I originally thought and you may need to do all of the above.

What I really need from you is a more detailed description of your setup but the DETAILS are very important if you want this to work. So please post the answer to these questions.

Make/Mode of the filter and heater
~ Length of suction and return pipes
Picture of your pad equipment

Also, did you find a part# on the jets? Are you sure the current jets are waterway jets?

Have you tried flushing the jet return lines? Remove exterior fittings plus all jet nozzles and then run the pump to flush the lines.

As for the function of a jet nozzle, water velocity is related to the diameter of the nozzle. The smaller the diameter, the higher the water velocity. The higher the water velocity, the more momentum that is stored in the water stream and the harder the water will hit your body.

As for your friend, every pool is different, if you can give the exact details of their design, we can compare as why their design works and yours does not.

 

[Ti3155]

Wow ....
Thank you so much for your time I really appreciate your comment

Please see my comments below

Thank you again

1) Reduce the amount of flow rate each jet needs. This can be done by reducing the jet size orifice -
I ordered 4" x 5/16 and one 1/4" to test them see if I get any improvement

2) Eliminate the heater and filter from the plumbing loop. A bypass can be used for this.
We only use the spa with heather so I guess I will not install bypass

3) Up size the piping.
In case reducing the nuzzle will not change anything Thats what im going to do , should I go with 3" Drain and I really want to use the 2" , I already changed it last year

You can do one of all of these things but it makes more sense to start with cheaper options first. So I would try each of these things in succession.
I will start with the nuzzle

However, given you are only seeing about 40 GPM which means you have a bigger problem than I originally thought and you may need to do all of the above.
The reasons its only 40 , 1 its far from the equipment - (At least 100'), pipe size is only 1.5" to the pump and 2" to the return

What I really need from you is a more detailed description of your setup but the DETAILS are very important if you want this to work. So please post the answer to these questions.

Make/Mode of the filter and heater
TA60 Pentair - 24"
Master Pentair- 250BTU

Picture of your pad equipment - Attached

Also, did you find a part# on the jets? Are you sure the current jets are waterway jets?
Im pretty sure , Im not sure what you mean but they came out from inside the Gunite
Im not sure if I get this questions right about the waterway ?


Have you tried flushing the jet return lines? Remove exterior fittings plus all jet nozzles and then run the pump to flush the lines.
Yes!

By the way Im getting 44GPM not 40 sorry , Idk if theres too much of a difference lol but its showing 44GPM

Thank you so much

 

[mas985]

1) Reduce the amount of flow rate each jet needs. This can be done by reducing the jet size orifice -
I ordered 4" x 5/16 and one 1/4" to test them see if I get any improvement

You need to replace all of them with the same jet or it won't work well.

2) Eliminate the heater and filter from the plumbing loop. A bypass can be used for this.
We only use the spa with heather so I guess I will not install bypass

You can still have a bypass and use the heater. The bypass just allows most of the water to bypass the heater to reduce head loss. The heater only needs about 40 GPM so a valve can be used to accommodate both.

3) Up size the piping.
In case reducing the nuzzle will not change anything Thats what im going to do , should I go with 3" Drain and I really want to use the 2" , I already changed it last year

I would go with 3" on both the suction and return lines. Both are critical.

Im pretty sure , Im not sure what you mean but they came out from inside the Gunite
Im not sure if I get this questions right about the waterway ?

Waterway is a brand of jet you planned on ordering. They are NOT all the same. Make sure you have Waterway jets before ordering.

Also, from the pictures, you are showing two pumps. Is one for the jets and the other for the pool/spa returns? If you have a separate pump for just the jets, then the jet water is not going through the filter and heater.

 

[mas985]

This is how you can plumb a bypass with an adjustable valve:

 

[Ti3155]

This is how you can plumb a bypass with an adjustable valve:

View attachment 406145

So , how do I keep the spa hot if it'd not going through the heater ? I have automation with 2 actuators .

 

[Ti3155]

You need to replace all of them with the same jet or it won't work well.


You can still have a bypass and use the heater. The bypass just allows most of the water to bypass the heater to reduce head loss. The heater only needs about 40 GPM so a valve can be used to accommodate both.


I would go with 3" on both the suction and return lines. Both are critical.


Waterway is a brand of jet you planned on ordering. They are NOT all the same. Make sure you have Waterway jets before ordering.

Also, from the pictures, you are showing two pumps. Is one for the jets and the other for the pool/spa returns? If you have a separate pump for just the jets, then the jet water is not going through the filter and heater.

No , the other pump is for the waterfall and bubblers not for spa.

The only thing I have in spa is x6 2" pipes with the nuzzle inside , that's what I'm going to replace with 5/16 or 1/4" nuzzle

 

[Ti3155]

Of cource I will replace all , i meant to say one set of 6 of 1/4" and one 5/16

 

[mas985]

Why one of 5/16"?

But you still have not answered my question regarding if those nozzles are Waterway brand or another brand. It does make a difference.

So , how do I keep the spa hot if it'd not going through the heater ? I have automation with 2 actuators .

The bypass valve also has an actuator and is in tandem with the spa valve actuator so when the spa valve turns on, the bypass valve also turns on and visa versa. The controller driver can drive more than one actuator.

 

[Ti3155]

Why one of 5/16"?

But you still have not answered my question regarding if those nozzles are Waterway brand or another brand. It does make a difference.


The bypass valve also has an actuator and is in tandem with the spa valve actuator so when the spa valve turns on, the bypass valve also turns on and visa versa. The controller driver can drive more than one actuator.

Oh I see what you mean now , so I only have 2 actuators bc my psl4 and I'm limited , so you mean .. build the bypass but install the actuator on the bypass basicly ?

About the Waterway I can't tell you bc idk. Last time I changed the nuzzle from the standard one to the 4" and it screwed in just fine. I'm not sure what's the brand no # no lable..

I will draw something with bypass tell me if it's good thanks

 

[Ti3155]

Oh I see what you mean now , so I only have 2 actuators bc my psl4 and I'm limited , so you mean .. build the bypass but install the actuator on the bypass basicly ?

About the Waterway I can't tell you bc idk. Last time I changed the nuzzle from the standard one to the 4" and it screwed in just fine. I'm not sure what's the brand no # no lable..

I will draw something with bypass tell me if it's good thanks

 

[mas985]

Nope, not what I meant. You still need an actuator on the spa/pool return valve. Do not remove any actuators that you have now. Simply ADD a new actuator to the bypass valve. This new actuator will be connected in parallel with the return spa/pool valve actuator so they both turn at the same time.

 

[Ti3155]

So can I simply connect 2 actuators together ?
Like connecting the wires to the same place ?

 

[Ti3155]

I didnt know that , but this will only cut the water flow to the heater while I'm in pool mode ?

If that's the case it will increase the flow to the spa when I'm in pool mode ?

Then I guess will still be the same , pool mode with spillway right?

Now when I will hit spa mode 3 actuators will change to spa mode and the water will go through the heater ?

I will reduce the nuzzle and try it then will try. If improved I'll leave it just like that, if not improved I'll change the drain to 3" and the return to 2.5" and ill do the bypass , you think will be better ?


I will need to call someone to do the bypass for me and the actuator anyway

Thank you so much for taking your time to respond

 

[Ti3155]

I'm sorry maybe I get this wrong , if the bypass is on with pool mode the water will not go through the filter. I think the bypass is too complicated for me at this point , I rather try reducing the nuzzle and change the plumbing to , from the pad using bigger pipes