Newbie to the Pool world, bought a house that has a pool.

[tk3000]

Bleach is fine, but make sure it has no additives. No scents, no splash-less, no nothing. Just sodium hypochlorite. And water of course, and they may list lye from the manufacturing process.

Yeah, it is basic bleach; no additives, nothing else. But the chlorine content of the liquid bleach I am using is rather low, at about 3.5%.

All tests done (with the taylor too) suggest that even after having added 4 lbs of stabilizer, the CYA is still rather low. Looks like there is a need for much more CYA.

Is it ok to add different chemicals (stabilizer, pH up, sodium bicarbonate, chlorine) during the same day?

 

[PoolStored]

The best place for you to buy liquid chlorine is Menards. Second best is "Pool Essentials liquid chlorine" at Walmart.

You can add chemicals the same day. Space chlorine and muriatic acid by about 15 minutes and make sure to brush around where you poured.

 

[tk3000]

The best place for you to buy liquid chlorine is Menards. Second best is "Pool Essentials liquid chlorine" at Walmart.

You can add chemicals the same day. Space chlorine and muriatic acid by about 15 minutes and make sure to brush around where you poured.

Once upon a time, I bought two jugs of chlorine at a local Menards. Its concentration of calcium hypochlorite was higher than most, at about 12.5%.

The rebates at Meanrds though are useless for me. Who has time, patience and willingness to fill out the small forms and then drive to a USPS place/box; all for a few dollars that you can only spend at Menards.

At first, the 1 gallon jugs of bleach I bought at rural king were fairly cheap (at $2 a jug). But noticing that they have only a 3% concentration of calcium hypochlorite, that deal does not sound good. I will use liquid chlorine the next time, and when things are more less ideal in order to proceed with the shock/slam.

The pool has an oblong shape and has roughly 25000 gallons of water (used a laser distance measuring device to measure distance between points and a long pole to measure the depth of the water). So far, added 10lbs of CYA and it made very little difference in the CYA measurement.

I did backwashed the sand filter (backwashed and rinse) several times and the pressure is still high, at 19PSI. To make matters worse the underground black corrugated pipe to which the backwashed water goes is totally clogged, and much of the water is going to the sidewalk outside the house even though I point the hose mostly to my front yard.

 

[mgtfp]

Once upon a time, I bought two jugs of chlorine at a local Menards. Its concentration of calcium hypochlorite was higher than most, at about 12.5%.

Just for the record: Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Calcium hypochlorite is a form of powdered chlorine that needs to be used with care because it keeps adding calcium.

All tests done (with the taylor too) suggest that even after having added 4 lbs of stabilizer, the CYA is still rather low. Looks like there is a need for much more CYA.

Is it ok to add different chemicals (stabilizer, pH up, sodium bicarbonate, chlorine) during the same day?

Maybe post your test results here and we go through them before adding stuff. PoolMath just tells you what to add to get to "ideal" levels, but there's no point in following that blindly.

 

[tk3000]

Just for the record: Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Calcium hypochlorite is a form of powdered chlorine that needs to be used with care because it keeps adding calcium.




Maybe post your test results here and we go through them before adding stuff. PoolMath just tells you what to add to get to "ideal" levels, but there's no point in following that blindly.

"Just for the record: Bleach is sodium hypochlorite. Calcium hypochlorite is a form of powdered chlorine that needs to be used with care because it keeps adding calcium."

My bad, I got things mixed up in my mind when typing.

I did test with the strips, another liquid test kit, taylor test kit and (for the pH) two different pH electronic test probes. They all more or less match. pH is with range (on the high side) between 7.6 and 7.9. Total Alkalinity is between 80 and 120, closer to a 120 (maybe 110).

In the day that I happen to add chlorine (larger amount [from time to time] or a single jug), few hours after having added it both the free chlorine and combine chlorine get fairly high. The chlorine is never high enough to shock the pool though (about 5ppm, not above 10ppm). About 24 hours afterwards, the combine chlorine is high (5ppm) and the free chlorine is rather low (.05ppm). That seems to indicate that the pool needs to be superchlorinated.

Is is an oblong pool. It may have 24,000 to 25,000 gallons capacity. So, if the CYA was extremely low (which it seems that it was based on two types of tests, since it could not even be detected); it would stand for a reason that it needs a large amount of CYA to even make a dent on the test. That would explain why by even adding 10lbs, it did not make much of a difference. Everything else looks good at this point.

 

[mgtfp]

I am starting to wonder if you had (or still have) ammonia. There is a certain type of bacteria that feeds on CYA, turning it into ammonia, which then creates a massive chlorine demand and creates large amounts of CC. pH also tends to be low.

Have a read through this article:

Ammonia - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

To confirm if you still have ammonia, add 10ppm worth of chlorine, keep the pump running, and test FC 30min later.

 

[Darin]

If you have test strips and a test kit, please throw the strips away so you wont feel the urge to use them.
Menard's will be the best place for you to get pool bleach (12.5%) and muratic acid. Walmart for CYA. Too bad Blains Farm & Fleet is not in Indiana, as they are the best this spring for pool bleach, $3.83 per gallon of 12.5%. Keep in mind the walmart bleach is not a very good deal because it is 10%.

And slow down just put in bleach and get your pool cleared up. If you chlorine gets below 10 ppm then you can get an accurate pH as 10 or above interference comes into play.

Follow the basic plan that is written out in this blog and you will me ok just quit putting in stuff other than bleach and muratic acid until you get handle on the pool.

 

[Badpoolmom]

Rural king(I’m in indiana too) has cases of 10% on sale for a few more days. 4 gallons just under $15

 

[tk3000]

Rural king(I’m in indiana too) has cases of 10% on sale for a few more days. 4 gallons just under $15

Yeah, I know. There is a Rural King about 1.5 miles from where I live, so I tend to go there often to stock on chlorine.

 

[tk3000]

I am starting to wonder if you had (or still have) ammonia. There is a certain type of bacteria that feeds on CYA, turning it into ammonia, which then creates a massive chlorine demand and creates large amounts of CC. pH also tends to be low.

Have a read through this article:

Ammonia - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

To confirm if you still have ammonia, add 10ppm worth of chlorine, keep the pump running, and test FC 30min later.

The pool is still green (but not as dark) and overall better than before. I can see the white outline of the underwater pool walls.

During the day today, if the pump was turned on, about 10% of the water would be covered with some fragments of thin smooth white-greyish stuff. If the pump was turned off, after one hour or so, the vast majority of that stuff would disappear.

Previous to superchlorinationg, with the pump running:



Later, in the evening, I did superchlorinated it (6 jugs). Afterwards (half-one hour or so), tested the water and the chlorine level was very high at over 10ppm (both free and combined chlorine, using two different type of tests). Previous to superchlorinating it, the pH was ok (more on the high side though, likely between 7.7 and 7.9). But once I superchlorinated it, the pH went up (at about 8.3), so I had the urge to use a “pH down”, and once I added the ‘pH Down’ product and most of the surface of the pool water got covered with some smooth thin mostly continuously white-greyish stuff. I read that superchlorinating the pool can throw the pH out of balance (maybe should not have added ‘pH Down’?).


I also brushed part of the pool floor in order to spread things at the bottom, so that the chlorine could more easily act on them.

Thanks for any input and insights.

 

[PoolStored]

I think we need to reset this thread.

You need to get a proper test kit. You will spend way more $$ and time (you and us) without it. Without it, we can't help you. Tough Love.

Order a K-2006CSalt or TF-100 Salt or TF-Pro salt now. Link-->Test Kits Compared

You are not following the SLAM process. You are fighting ghosts in the dark without a proper test kit and following the SLAM process. Please, print these instructions out, read them three times, and keep them with you and follow them. Link-->SLAM Process

 

[mgtfp]

I think we need to reset this thread.

You need to get a proper test kit. You will spend way more $$ and time (you and us) without it. Without it, we can't help you. Tough Love.

Order a K-2006CSalt or TF-100 Salt or TF-Pro salt now. Link-->Test Kits Compared

You are not following the SLAM process. You are fighting ghosts in the dark without a proper test kit and following the SLAM process. Please, print these instructions out, read them three times, and keep them with you and follow them. Link-->SLAM Process

tk3000 has the K-1005 which is fine apart from the missing FAS/DPD, no need to order a complete TF-Kit now, just the FAS/DPD add-on. Already provided the link to that above.

@tk3000, I really recommend that you order that add-on now to be able to follow the SLAM process. Read the the article linked above, and follow the process.

 

[tk3000]

If you have test strips and a test kit, please throw the strips away so you wont feel the urge to use them.
Menard's will be the best place for you to get pool bleach (12.5%) and muratic acid. Walmart for CYA. Too bad Blains Farm & Fleet is not in Indiana, as they are the best this spring for pool bleach, $3.83 per gallon of 12.5%. Keep in mind the walmart bleach is not a very good deal because it is 10%.

And slow down just put in bleach and get your pool cleared up. If you chlorine gets below 10 ppm then you can get an accurate pH as 10 or above interference comes into play.

Follow the basic plan that is written out in this blog and you will me ok just quit putting in stuff other than bleach and muratic acid until you get handle on the pool.

I don’t rely only on test strips, but I do use test strips in a cinch because they are easy and quick to deploy. I double check with other test methods from time to time. For instance, I do have two different types of pH electronic test probes that more or less calibrated, also have other liquid test kit, and the K-1005 DPD.

I used the K-1005 DPD in order to check the CYA: looking at a dot at the end of a vial, and the dot was always completely visible. It confirmed that the CYA was rather low. It could be the case that the CYA was so ultra-low that even the 12lbs that I added wasn’t enough to make much of a dent (the pool may have approximately 25,000 gallons of water).

“And slow down just put in bleach and get your pool cleared up. If you chlorine gets below 10 ppm then you can get an accurate pH as 10 or above interference comes into play.”

=> it is good to know that. As of now, the pool has above 10ppm of free chlorine (I will test again tomorrow with the K-1005 DPD. But the thing, so far, the results of the tests with different types of tests seem to converge. The K-1005 certainly is nicer and more accurate. As of now, the free and combine chlorine is high (over 10ppm), and both the pH and Total Alkalinity is within proper range.

Recently, I bought a good quantity of “pH UP”, “pH down”, stabilizer, etc, online (amazon). Clorox is the brand, the prices there were substantially better. Liquid chlorine, I have been buying at a local Rural King (very close to my place), and they have reasonable prices for the liquid chlorine (10% hypochlorite).

Also, there is a possibility that the sand filter is not doing a proper job (sand may need to be replaced). There is a need to eliminate potential traps or single points of failure.

 

[wireform]

I don’t rely only on test strips, but I do use test strips in a cinch because they are easy and quick to deploy. I double check with other test methods from time to time. For instance, I do have two different types of pH electronic test probes that more or less calibrated, also have other liquid test kit, and the K-1005 DPD.

I used the K-1005 DPD in order to check the CYA: looking at a dot at the end of a vial, and the dot was always completely visible. It confirmed that the CYA was rather low. It could be the case that the CYA was so ultra-low that even the 12lbs that I added wasn’t enough to make much of a dent (the pool may have approximately 25,000 gallons of water).

“And slow down just put in bleach and get your pool cleared up. If you chlorine gets below 10 ppm then you can get an accurate pH as 10 or above interference comes into play.”

=> it is good to know that. As of now, the pool has above 10ppm of free chlorine (I will test again tomorrow with the K-1005 DPD. But the thing, so far, the results of the tests with different types of tests seem to converge. The K-1005 certainly is nicer and more accurate. As of now, the free and combine chlorine is high (over 10ppm), and both the pH and Total Alkalinity is within proper range.

Recently, I bought a good quantity of “pH UP”, “pH down”, stabilizer, etc, online (amazon). Clorox is the brand, the prices there were substantially better. Liquid chlorine, I have been buying at a local Rural King (very close to my place), and they have reasonable prices for the liquid chlorine (10% hypochlorite).

Also, there is a possibility that the sand filter is not doing a proper job (sand may need to be replaced). There is a need to eliminate potential traps or single points of failure.

You really need to follow the advice given to you.
The link below is a pool the I turned in 8 days but protocol needs to be followed otherwise it just won't move along. Test strips are pure garbage and toss them. The kit is the best money you can spend.
How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Only Please).

 

[tk3000]

You really need to follow the advice given to you.
The link below is a pool the I turned in 8 days but protocol needs to be followed otherwise it just won't move along. Test strips are pure garbage and toss them. The kit is the best money you can spend.
How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Only Please).

It can be claimed that the test strip are not as reliable as other test methods and they should not be used as a single test resource, and in some situations the strips may be problematic. But the claim that they are completely useless does not add up. Many of the tests I made so far with the strips more or less match other test methods (electronic probes, other vial block+solutions kits, and the t-1005).

It also may be the case that the sand (grade silica) in my sand filter needs to be replace. With the pump off, today the water looks much better; more bluish than green (before it was a dark murky green). Most certainly not there yet, but a big improvement.

 

[Texas Splash]

I would offer a couple items following your recent post:
1 - At TFP we find test strips to be inferior. The wide "ranges" of readings on strips is not only unreliable, but leaves too much room for error when trying to employ pinpoint/accurate results. We remind members that using one of the recommend test kits is to their own benefit, and while we recommend the TF-100/Pro Series kits or the Taylor K-2006C, it is not important to us where an owner purchase the kit so long as they have one for use. They are just too important for accurate chemistry.
2 - Unless an owner added floc, clarifier, or some other product that might have compromised the sand, it should not go bad or require changing. At most, if the pump motor is not adequate enough to stir-up the sand during backwash, perhaps a sand deep cleaning might be in order. If you wish to change the sand, you certainly can, but we try to put everything into perspective for the homeowner and hopefully save them some money.

 

[tk3000]

I would offer a couple items following your recent post:
1 - At TFP we find test strips to be inferior. The wide "ranges" of readings on strips is not only unreliable, but leaves too much room for error when trying to employ pinpoint/accurate results. We remind members that using one of the recommend test kits is to their own benefit, and while we recommend the TF-100/Pro Series kits or the Taylor K-2006C, it is not important to us where an owner purchase the kit so long as they have one for use. They are just too important for accurate chemistry.
2 - Unless an owner added floc, clarifier, or some other product that might have compromised the sand, it should not go bad or require changing. At most, if the pump motor is not adequate enough to stir-up the sand during backwash, perhaps a sand deep cleaning might be in order. If you wish to change the sand, you certainly can, but we try to put everything into perspective for the homeowner and hopefully save them some money.

The main hindrance right now is the sand filter. I shocked the pool with about 6 jugs of liquid chlorine and keep on adding a jug of chlorine every other day or so in order to keep the chlorine level and the algae and bacteria at bay. Both combined and free chlorine are kept high. Also, making sure that the pH and Total Alkalinity is optimum. I added about 10 lbs of CYA about two weeks ago, but it did not make much of a dent in the readings (but at least it is not as low as before). I want address the sand filter situation before adding more expensive chemicals and superchlorinating the pool again.

As pointed out in a previous post, whenever I turn the pump on the surface of the water gets full of thin dark grey spots. I backwashed and rinsed the sand filter several times to no avail. Yesterday, I added a quart of “Pool Mate Filter Cleaner” to the basket in the pump and turned the pump on for about 10 seconds and then off, left the pump off for about 20 hours, then turned it back on in backwashing mode for about 3 minutes and nothing – still plenty of dark grey thin spots on the surface of the pool water when I turn the pump on in filter mode. I made a mistake by not turning the main drain off during the process of adding the cleaner to the filter (according to the instruction the main drain should be off during the 10 or 12 seconds the pump was on in order to soak the sand inside the filter); so, will repeat the process tonight. Hopefully, that will do it, and I don’t need to replace the sand in the filter.

The only thing I added to the pool skimmer that wen to the pump and thus sand filter was CYA. I added CYA directly to the basket of the skimmer and on another time added CYA to the skimmer using a type skimmer sock in order to allow the CYA pellets to dissolved gradually.

From time to time I do check the pool water with the taylor kit in order double check the measurements. Also, electronic probes seem useful to check the pH and things like ORP (Oxidation Reduction Potential).

If the pump is not running the thin dark grey spots on the surface of the water dissipates and disappears after a few hours. Also, the gauge gives constant readings of about 19PSI whenever the pump is running. I replaced the gauge and added a washer to the sight glass (washer was missing); but, still, whenever I backwash the sand filter water squirts and leaks out of the sight glass.

 

[Texas Splash]

Well, we seem to have different opinions on the water situation, at least from a TFP perspective. While I can't say for sure what these gray spots are from, we can't rule out chemistry 100% just yet. But based on your last reply, I will offer you the following info for consideration:
- "Both combined and free chlorine are kept high". That's not good (CC) and questionable (FC). CCs should never be elevated over 0.5. If they are there's an organic overload or oxidation problem. As for FC being high, how high exactly? And compared to what CYA at the moment. If your CYA happened to be 40 for example, you could easily have an FC of 16 with no problem (SLAM level). See the FC/CYA Levels for the FC to CYA relationship.
- "Also, making sure that the pH and Total Alkalinity is optimum". What numbers exactly? Probably has no bearing on these gray spots, but the exact pH and TA would be good to know.
- "I added a quart of “Pool Mate Filter Cleaner”. We'll need to research the SDS on that one to find out what its all about. We don't recommend adding anything to sand other than water during a deep cleaning process.
- "I added CYA directly to the basket of the skimmer". Never do that. Too acidic and can easily plug your suction line. Always pre-soak the stabilizer in a sock for about 30 min then squeeze it all out.
- "I do check the pool water with the Taylor kit". IMO, that is key right there.
- "the gauge gives constant readings of about 19PSI whenever the pump is running". That seems a bit high which would be indicative or excessive organics. What is the psi after a backwash?
- "whenever I backwash the sand filter water squirts and leaks out of the sight glass". That will need to be addressed. When the system is off, air could be pulled "IN" messing with what should be an airtight plumbing system.
- "I want address the sand filter situation before adding more expensive chemicals and superchlorinating the pool again". Certainly your choice, but remember sand doesn't go bad, so unless a bad pool store chemical was added to make it bad, there's not much to do with the sand filter other than perhaps a sand deep cleaning with water.

Looking back at this thread, several seasoned members/experts here at TFP have emphasized the importance of using a proper test kit and considering the need to perform a SLAM Process to ensure any heavy organic load is killed/removed. This is not a simple pool store term of super-chlorination, but a consistent process of maintaining the proper elevated FC level that gives the free chlorine ample time to kill and remove the algae or any other product that may be in the water. We can only advise though. We can't make anyone on TFP buy a kit or employ the advice we offer, but we certainly recommend it. Before you invest too much more time in the filter, I do think you should consider these recommendations. You might be surprised of the results.

 

[tk3000]

Well, we seem to have different opinions on the water situation, at least from a TFP perspective. While I can't say for sure what these gray spots are from, we can't rule out chemistry 100% just yet. But based on your last reply, I will offer you the following info for consideration:
- "Both combined and free chlorine are kept high". That's not good (CC) and questionable (FC). CCs should never be elevated over 0.5. If they are there's an organic overload or oxidation problem. As for FC being high, how high exactly? And compared to what CYA at the moment. If your CYA happened to be 40 for example, you could easily have an FC of 16 with no problem (SLAM level). See the FC/CYA Levels for the FC to CYA relationship.
- "Also, making sure that the pH and Total Alkalinity is optimum". What numbers exactly? Probably has no bearing on these gray spots, but the exact pH and TA would be good to know.
- "I added a quart of “Pool Mate Filter Cleaner”. We'll need to research the SDS on that one to find out what its all about. We don't recommend adding anything to sand other than water during a deep cleaning process.
- "I added CYA directly to the basket of the skimmer". Never do that. Too acidic and can easily plug your suction line. Always pre-soak the stabilizer in a sock for about 30 min then squeeze it all out.
- "I do check the pool water with the Taylor kit". IMO, that is key right there.
- "the gauge gives constant readings of about 19PSI whenever the pump is running". That seems a bit high which would be indicative or excessive organics. What is the psi after a backwash?
- "whenever I backwash the sand filter water squirts and leaks out of the sight glass". That will need to be addressed. When the system is off, air could be pulled "IN" messing with what should be an airtight plumbing system.
- "I want address the sand filter situation before adding more expensive chemicals and superchlorinating the pool again". Certainly your choice, but remember sand doesn't go bad, so unless a bad pool store chemical was added to make it bad, there's not much to do with the sand filter other than perhaps a sand deep cleaning with water.

Looking back at this thread, several seasoned members/experts here at TFP have emphasized the importance of using a proper test kit and considering the need to perform a SLAM Process to ensure any heavy organic load is killed/removed. This is not a simple pool store term of super-chlorination, but a consistent process of maintaining the proper elevated FC level that gives the free chlorine ample time to kill and remove the algae or any other product that may be in the water. We can only advise though. We can't make anyone on TFP buy a kit or employ the advice we offer, but we certainly recommend it. Before you invest too much more time in the filter, I do think you should consider these recommendations. You might be surprised of the results.

Yeah, I understand that keeping both the free and combined chlorine high is not good. Ideally, combined chlorine should be very low (.5ppm). It needs to be superchlorinated again (that pool was not taken care of for about a couple of months, previously it was winterized). At first, I was looking into having the filter situation resolved before continuing with the slam process; so, was looking into keeping the bacteria and algae at bay for the time being. You suggested that it is not necessary; so, should I go ahead and procede with another superchlorination cycle even with a problematic sand filter? By the way, I added filter cleaner a couple of days ago; yesterday I backwashed the filter again – the improvement was very minor. Even though the sand fitler is more related to the filtration and not the saniation, the filtration plays a role. So, should I go ahead and shock it again and go throug the slam process of adding more chlorine whenever it is necessary, all the while trying to resolve that filter quandary.

The thin dark grey spots I see on the surface of the pool while using the pump (once the pump is off the spots dissipates and disappeare in a few hours) kind of resemble oil in suspension in a liquid.

Before adding the CYA to the pool (added about 14lbs over the course of a few days), I read that one should use a skimmer socket, then I ordered the skimmer sockets online, etc; but the sockets took a little bit longer to arrive (already had the CYA in hand). Upon reading the instruction written at the CYA bag, it did not mention anything about the skimmer sockets and simply said to add the CYA to the skimmer in small dosages, so I assumed that it was ok to add the CYA directly to the skimmer. I never saw manufacturers of a product been so irresponsible, there should be warning about the need of using skimmer sockets, instead there was nothing, not even a mentioning of the skimmer socket.

I understand that CYA plays a crucial role in maintaining the chlorine in the long run. But once you are superchlorinating the pool, isnt most of the chlorine being used rather quickly to breakdown the organic matter present in the water? Would be ok to add CYA to a bucket of pool water and mix it vigorously with a drill bit attachment – the type that is often used to mix paint and drywall mud -- and then pour the mixture in the water?

Last time I checked, the chemical measurements were a little different. Today, I took more measurements with the Taylor Kit and the electronic probe. pH is of 7.4, Total Alkalinity is high though, at about 150ppm (seems acceptable). I did add about 3 lbs of Calcium yesterday night, given how low it was – now hardness is about 180ppm. CYA is still rather low. Below are some pics of the tests:


(chlorine test, both free chlorine and combine are above 5ppm)



pH Test, a little bit low (about 7.3), once add tap water to the pool it went up to 7.4.


Hardness of water. Low at about 160ppm.

I have not performed the CYA test because I know it is still rather low -- no need to use up the test solution.

 

[Badpoolmom]

From what I’m gathering,
The general consensus here is you need to follow the slam process. It has been suggested repeatedly. Like, broken record repeatedly
May I ask why you seem hesitant to follow?

It’s the method advised and followed here with excellent results.
Personally, I’m just a tfp member who has asked for advice, followed it and achieved balanced, ultra clear, properly sanitized water by doing so.

The volunteers offering advice here must be credited (and thanked imo)for sharing their time, knowledge, AND patience in helping us understand the how’s and why’s (for free).

But as stated, it’s ultimately the pool owners decision how to care for their pool.