Newbie to the Pool world, bought a house that has a pool.

[tk3000]

Hello Folks,

About a month ago, I bought a house in Fort Wayne, IN, and the house came with an in-ground swimming pool. It was not my intention to buy a house with a pool – I bought mostly due to the location. The pool was closed due to the winter -- it was winterized with anti-freeze, etc --, so the machinery was turned off and disconnected. Don’t know much about pools in general (besides the very basics), but I have a background in engineering and have many different interest (plumbing, mechanics, etc). Did not have much time to do anything with the pool, beside skimming every other day (when I am in town) and pouring a jug of chlorine in it a few times a week to minimize the problem. As of now, the pool situation is bleak and it is green and it is dirty (it gets dirty every day given that there is no circulation and filtration and also due to the fact that there are lots of trees and plants nearby). Probably has lots of stuff accumulated on the floor of the pool. Looking at the city website for permits, it shows that the pool was built in 1996 and is 21'x35' and its deep sideis probably around 8 ft deep.

It is more than time to tackle that situation with the pool, so I developed a plan of action based on some research, etc. But there are some uncertainties and doubts, and I have a few questions and doubts:

<>Firstly, the chemical test strip results (will redo it soon in better conditions):

Total Hardness ppm => seems to be low or very low (difficult to distinguish by the color), but more likely low

Free Chlorine => seems to be 1 (which according to the chart is ok). Due to the poor conditions of the pool water, I have been pouring 1 jug of chlorine around the pool about 3 times a week.
Ph is rather low: the strips indicates 6.2 or 6.8. An electronic probe device used to measure the Ph shows it as been around 6.5.

Cyanuric Acid seems to be close to 0.

Alkalinity on the other hand looks rather high at about 180. Alkalinity keeps the Ph in check (help maintains and keep the Ph level).

=> To be more effective, the chlorine needs a balanced Ph, so the goal is to increase the Ph and then superchlorinate the pool with the pump running. Then, brush the walls and floor. Next day would vaccum the floor of the pool.

Below is a pic of the pool:




<> Checked the basket inside the pump and the skimmer.

Previously, the skimmer had some anti-freeze jugs jammed into it, due to winterization -- I guess. Removed the jugs, found out the skimmer basket in a garage's closet with other pool related things. The skimmer basket seems to come along with an insert that may go inside it – heard that it act as a door for the skimmer (replacing the flap door thing). The pic below depicts the situation:




(Plastic insert thing that floats inside the skimmer and above the skimmer basket)



(Previous situation, with jugs jammed inside the skimmer)

The basket is not shown in the pics above, bu it is in good shape.

The pump had its basket removed, cleaned and reinstalled. No water in the pump as is to be expected, so it should need to be primed. Can the pump be run without any water just to test it?


Also, the connection between the main pump body and the pump multi-port valve next to the pump body (as shown in the pic above) seems to be made by some type of epoxy and resin? Is that properly done. Looks kind of flimsy.

And to make things difficult, there is not labeling in the pipes going underground from the pump. The arrows point to them. Which likely would be the drain and which would be for the skimmer?

Previous all equipment was disconnected and some of parts (skimmer basket, plugs, o-rings, etc) were stored in a closet in the garage. Below is a pic depicting the situation before all connections, etc, were done:




Today, I managed to reconnected everything. Lube all the o-rings and put all plugs in place. Once upon opening the pipes protruding from the ground, I noticed some anti-freeze still present. Could the residual anti-freeze be a problem? Below is a pic of the whole thing assembled:



Basically, the idea is to bring the Ph back to normal levels in order to maximize the effects of the chlorine (liquid chlorine jugs with 10% chlorine content). I plan on using 3 or 4 jugs of chlorine after the Ph is at a proper level. Brush the walls and floor of the pool manually. All that should be done when the pump and filter is running.

Also, threaded two small black plugs on the side of the heater (assumed it is necessary to have them once the thing is running). I was wondering if there is way, besides installing new plumbing, valves and fittings, to bypass the heater? Does the heater has the internal capability (through solenoids) to internally be bypassed?

Thanks any input.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! As a new pool owner, let's be sure to take this in some simple steps:
1 - Get yourself a TF-Series (or Taylor K-2006C) test kit. I have the TF-100, but any of the TF-Series kits are great. See my signature for a link. Speaking of which, your signature is blank. If you're on a portable device, turn it sideways to see what I mean. But you MUST have one of those test kits. Take the test strips and toss them in the trash. Also avoid the pool store like the plague. Bad advice and wayyyyyyy over-priced.
2. The residual antifreeze won't hurt anything.
3. Be sure to have all the plumbing reconnected and any drain plugs re-installed. Those suction pipes coming up from the ground have unions so that they can be screwed & unscrewed as needed which is good.
4. Once you think you have everything reconnected, you should be able to use a bucket of water to fill the pump pot and try to prime it (turn it on) and see if it remains full. If not, turn off power and look around to ensure no winterizing plugs or products are still in equipment or the return jets. Also make sure the filter is set to FILTER and that any 3-way valves are set to open.
5. Once the system is operating, allow the water to mix freely and add a couple gallons of liquid chlorine. From than point on, just add ONE gallon of liquid chlorine to the water each day until you get one of those test kit.
6. Once you get the test kit, post a full set of water test results. Then we can get accurate on the chemistry. No guesswork.
7. Have some muriatic acid available (store outside away from everything and other chemicals) to control the pH later.
8. You will need to read the SLAM Process to remove the algae. Start stocking-up on liquid chlorine. You'll go through several gallons once your test kit arrives to perform the SLAM.
9. Bookmark our Pool Care Basics. It has LOTS of great info.
10. Download the PoolMath APP. It's a great tool to assist.

Oh, and TA is usually very high in your area. Don't worry about it at the moment. We can address that much later. For now, get the test kit and we'll watch for good numbers.

 

[tk3000]

Welcome to TFP! As a new pool owner, let's be sure to take this in some simple steps:
1 - Get yourself a TF-Series (or Taylor K-2006C) test kit. I have the TF-100, but any of the TF-Series kits are great. See my signature for a link. Speaking of which, your signature is blank. If you're on a portable device, turn it sideways to see what I mean. But you MUST have one of those test kits. Take the test strips and toss them in the trash. Also avoid the pool store like the plague. Bad advice and wayyyyyyy over-priced.
2. The residual antifreeze won't hurt anything.
3. Be sure to have all the plumbing reconnected and any drain plugs re-installed. Those suction pipes coming up from the ground have unions so that they can be screwed & unscrewed as needed which is good.
4. Once you think you have everything reconnected, you should be able to use a bucket of water to fill the pump pot and try to prime it (turn it on) and see if it remains full. If not, turn off power and look around to ensure no winterizing plugs or products are still in equipment or the return jets. Also make sure the filter is set to FILTER and that any 3-way valves are set to open.
5. Once the system is operating, allow the water to mix freely and add a couple gallons of liquid chlorine. From than point on, just add ONE gallon of liquid chlorine to the water each day until you get one of those test kit.
6. Once you get the test kit, post a full set of water test results. Then we can get accurate on the chemistry. No guesswork.
7. Have some muriatic acid available (store outside away from everything and other chemicals) to control the pH later.
8. You will need to read the SLAM Process to remove the algae. Start stocking-up on liquid chlorine. You'll go through several gallons once your test kit arrives to perform the SLAM.
9. Bookmark our Pool Care Basics. It has LOTS of great info.
10. Download the PoolMath APP. It's a great tool to assist.

Oh, and TA is usually very high in your area. Don't worry about it at the moment. We can address that much later. For now, get the test kit and we'll watch for good numbers.

Thanks for the welcome and all the links! Yeah, I will look into buy the Taylor K-2006C soon. I will also add some info about my pool and myself to my signature soon. But, right now, I have a test strip kit that is somehow reliable (I don´t need super precise info now, just enough to get things going), and the Ph results are more or less matched by two pH electronic probe testes.

That, then, bring my next quandary. Before superchlorinate and the turn he equipment on, it seemed to be a good idea to increase the pH in order for the chlorine to be more effective.

Previously, the pH level were rather low at about 6.5. So, yesterday night I got 4.5 pounds of pH increase (at a local menards), the following:

Utikem® AlkaPlus Pool Treatment - 4.5 lbs.

I proceeded by adding about 1 pound of pH increaser at a time, waiting about 20 min and testing. Did that about 5 or 6 times. At the end of the night, the pH was still low, but much better than before at about 7.

Today afternoon, I went to the pH and it seems very high; at about 8.7. The alkalinity that previously was very high (at 180ppm) now is close to zero. It somehow made sense to add 4.5 pounds of pH increase considering how low the pH was, and now (several hour afterwards) it is super high.

I also added a gallon of chlorine to keeps the bacteria in check yesterday night, one hour or so after applying all the pH increaser. The water is dirty, so there may be other type of chemical interactions. The goal, for the first day, is to get pH about right so that the chlorine will be more effective -- superchlorinate and then try to turn the equipment on in order to circulate and filter the water.

 

[Texas Splash]

This is the time as a new TFP member I would encourage you to take a breath and really go over some of our Pool Care Basics articles. Items like recommended chemicals, levels, and others. Right now you're focusing a lot on pH and TA when in actuality it is your CYA and FC that will be most important to begin the SLAM Process and kill the algae. Don't worry about the effectiveness of the chlorine with a certain pH level. You noted the TA crashed to zero which is another problem with the current process. If it is indeed low (below 50), then slowly increase it with baking soda. Go in stages until it's about 50-60.

Unfortunately, the test strips won't do you any good in this process and "close enough" will have you very frustrated. We see it time & time again. The pH increaser was not really needed either as there are other ways to manipulate the pH (and TA for that matter). Even with the best of intentions, if you are relying on test strips to manipulate your levels, it will lead to disappointment.

So once you have the system running, with a proper test kit, it's simple:
1 - Adjust pH to around 7.2 (If high, use muriatic acid; if low, aerate the water and/or raise the TA some more)
2 - Verify the CYA level (needs to be at least 30 ppm and not too high over that)
3 - Adjust the FC to elevated "SLAM FC level that corresponds to the current CYA
4 - Perform the SLAM Process until all 3 criteria have passed.

After you pass the SLAM criteria, you can then allow the FC to fall back down and adjust all other chemical levels.

 

[tk3000]

This is the time as a new TFP member I would encourage you to take a breath and really go over some of our Pool Care Basics articles. Items like recommended chemicals, levels, and others. Right now you're focusing a lot on pH and TA when in actuality it is your CYA and FC that will be most important to begin the SLAM Process and kill the algae. Don't worry about the effectiveness of the chlorine with a certain pH level. You noted the TA crashed to zero which is another problem with the current process. If it is indeed low (below 50), then slowly increase it with baking soda. Go in stages until it's about 50-60.

Unfortunately, the test strips won't do you any good in this process and "close enough" will have you very frustrated. We see it time & time again. The pH increaser was not really needed either as there are other ways to manipulate the pH (and TA for that matter). Even with the best of intentions, if you are relying on test strips to manipulate your levels, it will lead to disappointment.

So once you have the system running, with a proper test kit, it's simple:
1 - Adjust pH to around 7.2 (If high, use muriatic acid; if low, aerate the water and/or raise the TA some more)
2 - Verify the CYA level (needs to be at least 30 ppm and not too high over that)
3 - Adjust the FC to elevated "SLAM FC level that corresponds to the current CYA
4 - Perform the SLAM Process until all 3 criteria have passed.

After you pass the SLAM criteria, you can then allow the FC to fall back down and adjust all other chemical levels.

Thanks for all the info. I am reading through it. In the past, I read that the balance of the pH and Alkaline playes a pivotal role in the effectiveness of the chlorine. I usually pour the chlorine in the pool water at night since it seems to loose its properties faster due to the incidence of sun light. But now, it seems clear that cyanuric acid plays a very important role as well.

After pouring some pounds of baking soda over time – testing in-between – the Alkalinity level now is hovering around 90. The pH is still higher (baking soda probably increase it as well by a small degree), pH is about 8.5 to 9.0. CYA level is very low though, close to zero.

Tonight, I poured about 4 gallons of chlorine (10% hypochlorite), even though I know it is not going to be as effective due to the chemical imbalance in the water. But, I have to try to keep the bacteria and algae in check in the meantime.

I will get muriatic acid today in order decrease the level of CYA and will also add some stabilizer product to bring the CYA level up. And when the pH, Alkaline and CYA are at acceptable levels, I wil add large quantities of liquid chlorine on a schedule (like the one mentioned in your first post).

The previous owner left behind some pool products. One being “hth stabilizer and conditioner”, it is 15oz content and it seems to be in the form of small white pellets. I have not turned the pump and pool equipment on yet. The instructions says that it should be add in small amounts to the skimmer. Would it be ok to spread small amount of it around the pool water?

The labels of the multi-port valve for the sand filter is mostly missing. I believe it is Pentair D60 sand filter. Comparing it with images online, I manage to figure out the missing label (I hope). The following image shows:


Does it sound correct? When I turn the equipment for the first during superchlorination (hopefully it all will work), the valve should be in filter position -- I assume.

Also, there is one pipe coming from the ground that does not seem to connect to anything. The one pointed by an arrow in the pic below:


Sorry for the delay in following up. I was away for some time and doing some other things. I have ordered a taylor test kit, but it will take some days to arrive; and in the meantime, I got another test kit in form of liquids and a block of vials.

 

[Texas Splash]

Now that you have provided a bit more info, let me go over some of your latest notes:
- Don't add anything to the water until the water is circulating. That is very important.
- The concerns you have expressed for the effectiveness of chlorine in relation to pH/TA are relatively minor in our residential pool community. It's not as significant as you might expect which is why I recommend not getting too concerned about that relationship at this time. We will provide guidance on recommended levels for all of them and the rest will take care of itself.
- I think you had a typo above about using muriatic acid to lower CYA, when in fact it's to lower the pH and/or TA. Probably just a typo.
- How are you testing? Did you get a TF-Series test kit (or Taylor K-2006C) yet? If not, please do not try to manipulate the levels based on test strips or anything else. You'll end-up playing a yo-yo game of ups & down with levels and they'll never really be accurate. This is for your own good believe me.
- Speaking of yo-yos, I see the TA went a bit high (if testing is accurate). Yes, that causes the pH to also rise quicker. Typically a good place for TA is between 50-70. That seems to be a good buffer zone while not allowing the pH to rise too quickly. Don't worry about the TA at this time though, pH is more important. Not because of the chlorine, but the potential for scale.

Once you have one of those good teat kits, you'll be ready to do the following:
1 - Lower the pH to about 7.2 with acid.
2 - (This next process is only because your pool has been unattended for some time): Don't add stabilizer just yet. First, use liquid chlorine to increase the FC to "10" ppm. Check it in 10 minutes (no later). If it crashed below 5 ppm, increase it back to 10 ppm and test again in 10 min. Repeat this process until you are sure the FC is starting to hold anywhere between 6-10 ppm for at least 10 min. Then go to Step 3.
3 - Now you can add 30 ppm worth of stabilizer. Do NOT pour it in the skimmer! Pour the required amount in a white sock or nylon and let it soak in the water for 30 min. I place my sock in the skimmer, but anywhere is fine. Just don't let it rest against the side of the pool. After that time, take the sock over to the return jets and squeeze the stabilizer (mush) all out. It should only take a few minutes - done.
4 - Once the stabilizer is in the water, increase (and maintain) an FC of "12" which is your new SLAM FC level. Maintain that and follow the SLAM Process until you pass all 3 SLAM criteria.

Follow that path and you'll do well. But seriously, you must have one of those test kits to begin any of this. If you don't have a kit yet, don't try any of it.

 

[Texas Splash]

Does it sound correct? When I turn the equipment for the first during superchlorination (hopefully it all will work), the valve should be in filter position -- I assume.

Yes, the MPV should be in the FILTER position when you begin the SLAM Process.

Also, there is one pipe coming from the ground that does not seem to connect to anything. The one pointed by an arrow in the pic below:

Yeah, I'm not sure. Your filter is connected (In, Out, & Waste) and all the other lines make sense. Perhaps this was an old abandoned line for something? We can come back to that a bit later.

 

[tk3000]

Yes, the MPV should be in the FILTER position when you begin the SLAM Process.


Yeah, I'm not sure. Your filter is connected (In, Out, & Waste) and all the other lines make sense. Perhaps this was an old abandoned line for something? We can come back to that a bit later.

Yeah, it was a typo of sorts! I meant "cyanuric acid" (in order to raise the CYA).

Today, I was able to turn the pump and equipment on. I don’t know if everything is in working order and to add to the confusion many things are missing labels (as is the case of the sand filter); so, I am not sure if the port (notch) on the sand fiter that I labeled “FILTER” is really the filter port.

Once I turned the pool equipment on (previously I added water to the pump to prime it, don’t know how to purge air from it), it all came alive. At first there was water splashing coming from the back port of the of the sand filter (the one that goes to the heater), so I turned everything off, retightened it and properly positioned the o-ring, and the splash was gone. The water that did splash from the connection fitting was green (like the current water in the pool).



Regarding the pump valve, I don’t know which is for the skimmer and which one is for the jets. By trial and error, at first I noticed air and bubbles coming from the jets only and nothing inside the skimmer. Then, I tried a different position on the valve and the water inside the skimmer started to swirl. If the valve is in the middle position, does both the jets and skimmer works at the same time (but with less power)?

Not only I am newbie, but don’t know anything about the state of the equipment. The pump seems to be working as expected, but I don’t know about the condition of the sand filter (maybe it needs to be backwashed, have its sand replaced, etc). One thing I noticed is that the pressure gauge reads dead at zero with the equipment running – probably the gauge is bad.

I did add a small amount of pool stabilizer (since it was too low) and pH reducer. Upon testing later, pH seems to be back to normal and the Alkanity is within range; but, the CYA is still too low.

I ordered the following test kit: Taylor K-1005 DPD, 9-in-1 Pool Test Kit. It should arrive on Thursday, so I will have more precise measurements then.

Thanks!

 

[Flying Tivo]

Taylor K-1005 DPD, 9-in-1 Pool Test Ki

This test kit is still missing an important component FAS/DPD to mesure CL above 5ppm, which you will need for a proper SLAM Process. Also the kit comes with small bottles .75oz which will run you out very fast in the SLAM. That is why the Taylor K-2006C was the kit recommended a few post back. It would look like you were saving money with this kit but on the long run it will not. Here are the recommended Test Kits Compared.

 

[Texas Splash]

Along with what Felipe mentioned, please do not add any chemicals to the water until you can test it properly. You could end-up causing more work for yourself later once you do a proper water test.

 

[mgtfp]

Previously, the pH level were rather low at about 6.5. So, yesterday night I got 4.5 pounds of pH increase (at a local menards), the following:

Utikem® AlkaPlus Pool Treatment - 4.5 lbs.

I proceeded by adding about 1 pound of pH increaser at a time, waiting about 20 min and testing. Did that about 5 or 6 times. At the end of the night, the pH was still low, but much better than before at about 7.

Today afternoon, I went to the pH and it seems very high; at about 8.7. The alkalinity that previously was very high (at 180ppm) now is close to zero. It somehow made sense to add 4.5 pounds of pH increase considering how low the pH was, and now (several hour afterwards) it is super high.

This doesn't really make sense. I see no scenario where it is possible for TA to crash from 180ppm to zero by adding sodium carbonate. It is also not possible to have pH 8.7 and TA zero at the same time.

I think those strips are playing tricks with you. You really need that test kit to get your water sorted. Well done on ordering one
But please do add that FAS/DPD kit to it.

 

[mgtfp]

You can just add this to your kit:

FAS/DPD Chlorine Test Kit

tftestkits.net

You could ask tftestkits if they can leave out the R-0003 reagent as that's included in your K1005, and take a few dollars off.

 

[tk3000]

This test kit is still missing an important component FAS/DPD to mesure CL above 5ppm, which you will need for a proper SLAM Process. Also the kit comes with small bottles .75oz which will run you out very fast in the SLAM. That is why the Taylor K-2006C was the kit recommended a few post back. It would look like you were saving money with this kit but on the long run it will not. Here are the recommended Test Kits Compared.

Ok, point taken. I canceled the order for the K-1005.

Some of the kits mentioned also have a long delivery time. How about the following:

TAYLOR TECHNOLOGIES INC K-2006 TEST KIT COMP CHLORINE FAS-DPD​

It lacks the C at the end (K-2006 instead of K-2006C). What would be the difference?

 

[Flying Tivo]

It lacks the C at the end (K-2006 instead of K-2006C). What would be the difference?

You need the C which is the larger bottles. It does matter and if you can buy the speedstir which make testing easier and more fun.

 

[tk3000]

This doesn't really make sense. I see no scenario where it is possible for TA to crash from 180ppm to zero by adding sodium carbonate. It is also not possible to have pH 8.7 and TA zero at the same time.

I think those strips are playing tricks with you. You really need that test kit to get your water sorted. Well done on ordering one
But please do add that FAS/DPD kit to it.

I performed that test almost 15 days ago. Maybe the fac the pump and filter were (and ist for most part not running yet) not running for months and the pool have dirty and algae on top of it influenced the test. Still learning though, I probably should collect the not directly from the surface, but from a little (foot or so) bit deeper. It does not help that often I perform the tests in the evening and at night (using artificial light sources).

I know your guys don’t like the test strip. But, below is are example of two test taken within one or two days in-between:


But, now I have to make sure the equipment (mainly sand filter) is working properly.

I will be travelling beginning of next week, and it seems difficult to find the taylor 2006-c locally; and, for some reason, it would take almost a week for it to arrive. On top of that, the fact that it has such a high price point is difficult to understand.

 

[mgtfp]

The Test kits from Tftestkits are much better priced. They repackage original Taylor reagents, using larger bottles for reagents a residential pool owner needs more of, and smaller bottles where you need less of. You basically get Taylor "C" size where it makes sense, and "A" size where that's enough.

The cheapest option is the TF100:

TF-100 Test Kit

tftestkits.net

The TF-Pro is a bit more expensive, but comes in a nice case and a magnetic stirrer (that I wouldn't want to miss anymore):

TF-Pro

tftestkits.net

 

[mgtfp]

The price for a good test kit is nothing compared to what you will be saving by not having to rely on bogus store recommendations. Their "free" testing is only free because they expect you to leave the store with a wheelbarrow full of chemicals that you actually don't need.

Your pool will be properly looked after, and it's in your hand to prevent costly damage down the road.

 

[tk3000]

The Test kits from Tftestkits are much better priced. They repackage original Taylor reagents, using larger bottles for reagents a residential pool owner needs more of, and smaller bottles where you need less of. You basically get Taylor "C" size where it makes sense, and "A" size where that's enough.

The cheapest option is the TF100:

TF-100 Test Kit

tftestkits.net

The TF-Pro is a bit more expensive, but comes in a nice case and a magnetic stirrer (that I wouldn't want to miss anymore):

TF-Pro

tftestkits.net

The “Taylor K-1005 DPD” that ordered and tried to cancel ended up been fulfilled. So, I receive it. Since, I already have it, will use it. It should give me more accurate results – especially the CYA. Also, I will order the TF-100 soon. Too many extra expenses lately. Also, many are able to shock the pool with much cheapter testing kits.

The sand filter has some issues as well. The pressure gauge was bad (reading zero all the time with the pump running). Replaced the pressure gauge and now I have about 19psi -- which seems rather high -- whenever the pump is running. And I did backwashed and rinsed the filter a few times (to the point where water level in the pool went down). Also, the gasket for the sight glass was missing; so, whenever I do backwash water squirts from the sight glass.

I am using regular basic bleach instead of chlorine. To my surprise it seemed to have helped with algae rather quickly (still green water, but no more signs of algae showing on the surface of the water); the fact that the water is circulating probably helped.

 

[mgtfp]

The K1005 is fine, just add the FAS/DPD kit that I linked to above in post #12. The K1005 has everything else you need. Get the TF100 next season.

 

[mgtfp]

I am using regular basic bleach instead of chlorine.

Bleach is fine, but make sure it has no additives. No scents, no splash-less, no nothing. Just sodium hypochlorite. And water of course, and they may list lye from the manufacturing process.