New DIY Vinly Pool Build - (OH)

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driyac

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May 19, 2017
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new albany
Hey Everyone, TFP has been a major resource thus far for me in this learning process. I have completed lots of large projects, additions, etc that I am not too terribly concerned. I am starting this thread to document my process. I like many have found it hard to find great resources on exactly each process required to build. Sure there are some resources but I havent found many to be really detailed for the average DIY'r. Our build will be a 16' by 40' rectangular build with vinyl over steps with 6' of depth. We have a rather large amount of grade to rectify from our walk out to the pool itself. Thus, we will be dropping overall grade from the house to the pool deck by 12". With not being able to have the pool higher than the surrounding landscape itself, 2 large deck drains 4" wide will be going around the pool plus french drains on the concrete beam collar to alleviate any concerns of water behind the liner. We will then be building up 24" of grade to the pool deck. on the rear portion of the pool will go a 16' long 2 tier waterfall wall with 1 - 48" waterfall and 2 36" waterfalls on either side ; 6 deck jets as well . Waterfalls will be ran off a separate 1.5 HP pump with filter.

However, I have some questions that revolve around plumbing, pumps, and where to place the equipment itself. Many resources I have read say within 20' of the deep end. I would like to place it opposite the deep end which will be about 60 feet from main drains.

Anyone have any experience building a waterfall wall on Vinyl liner edge? Trying to gauge on how many piers i need to put underneath to support he concrete block wall with a veener.
 

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How did I miss this one??? That is going to be quite the project but it looks like you have really thought out some of the problems with the drainage and such. Well done!

I am going to ping a couple of people who may have some input on the waterwall feature and the equipment distance from the pool. @jimmythegreek @ajw22
 
Placing equipment 60’ away is not a problem with a VS pump and 2” pipe.
 
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Hi Fellow Columbus resident, watching this closely as I'm just dangerous enough to think that I could pull a vinyl build off on my own. I keep speccing out kits, thinking how hard can it be... then I wander down the details and get cold feet. Will be watching closely!
 
Hello everyone! This forum has been a tremendous amount of help to me and my DIY pool build. I am in some serious need of finishing up the pool and figuring out which system would work for me.
I cant decide based on my limited knowledge- what system will work for the equipment I have.

Here is what I am running.
2 - 36" waterfalls - Plumbed 2" with 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
1 - 48" waterfall - Plumbed 2" on a separate 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
1 - to be decided Pump (based on automation) variable speed to run 3 returns, 2 skimmers, and 6 deck jets on 2" pipe
You may ask why the 2 separate motors for the waterfalls - well they are located over 120 feet away from my pump. The head numbers are astronomical and felt it would be better to be cautious. This is also why i want some automation, the pumps for the waterfalls will only be on intermittently. I felt really expensive pump was a terrible way to go.
1 - Water heater to be determined - that works best with the automation system
3 - CMP LED waterfall lights
4 - CMP LED Nicheless lights in pool
1 - TBD Spa motor - this is not a spill over spa and is plumbed on its on system
1 - TBD Spa Heater - again on seperate system
1 - CMP LED Nicheless light for the SPA

I would very much like to add 2 actuators for the pool - 1 to control the deck jets - 1 to control switching the 2 of the main drains from one of the waterfall pumps to the main circulation system (this isnt 100% need because a simple valve would suffice.

With all that Said, I really appreciate any of your help. I dont fully understand what is compatible with each system (hayward, pentair, etc.)
 
You should be using larger pipe with your waterfalls and can probably run it on one pump.. Is the distance from the pump to the pool 60' or 120'?

@mas985 @JamesW

Pentair IntelliCenter is modular can can control all you have listed.

Is your spa totally isolated from the pool? No spillover?
 
How do you want your lights controlled and grouped? You need a relay and transformer for each group fo lights you want to turn on and off individually.
 

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driyac said:
2- 36" waterfalls - Plumbed 2" with 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
1 - 48" waterfall - Plumbed 2" on a separate 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
Click to expand...
For sheer descents, the flow requirements are about 9 to 20 gpm per linear foot.

(2) 36" sheers will take about 54 to 120 gpm.

(1) 48" sheer will take 36 to 80 gpm.

For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.

1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm
4”...........234.............313 gpm

You can do them on separate pumps or a single pump.

The pump needs to be a water feature pump and not a regular pump.

Or, you can use an Intelliflo XF for both.

For all 3 sheers on the same pump, use a 4" suction line. I would make sure that the main drains are rated for a total of 265 gpm.

Run a 2" line to each 36" sheer and a 2.5" line to the 48" sheer.

If you want the (2) 36" sheers on their own pump, the suction needs to be 3".

The suction for just the 48" sheer needs to be 2.5".
 
driyac said:
Here is what I am running.
2 - 36" waterfalls - Plumbed 2" with 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
1 - 48" waterfall - Plumbed 2" on a separate 2 main drains on a 2hp no name pump
1 - to be decided Pump (based on automation) variable speed to run 3 returns, 2 skimmers, and 6 deck jets on 2" pipe
You may ask why the 2 separate motors for the waterfalls - well they are located over 120 feet away from my pump. The head numbers are astronomical and felt it would be better to be cautious. This is also why i want some automation, the pumps for the waterfalls will only be on intermittently. I felt really expensive pump was a terrible way to go.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. How did you calculate the head loss? Head Loss <> Pipe Length but is related to it.

The rule of thumb for waterfalls is 5 GPM/ft so with 10' of waterfall, that is only 50 GPM. Head loss in 120' of a single 2" pipe at 50 GPM is ~4' of head. Upsize to 2.5" and the head loss drops to 1.6' of head. If you go with parallel runs, you drop it even further. Not outrageous numbers at all.
 
mas985 said:
The rule of thumb for waterfalls is 5 GPM/ft so with 10' of waterfall, that is only 50 GPM.
Click to expand...
It depends on what the waterfall is.

For sheer descents, the flow requirements are about 9 to 20 gpm per linear foot.

We really need to know exactly what the waterfalls are and what the required flow rate is.
 
ajw22 said:
You should be using larger pipe with your waterfalls and can probably run it on one pump.. Is the distance from the pump to the pool 60' or 120'?

@mas985 @JamesW

Pentair IntelliCenter is modular can can control all you have listed.

Is your spa totally isolated from the pool? No spillover?
Click to expand...
I agree, I should have. But it’s under 42” of rock now so no turning back.... the waterfalls are about 75’ of piping actually. Just counted how much I cut off the ends of the led wiring.

yes it’s still on back order. It’s a non spillover 85” cardinal spa. So we can use it comfortably all year round here in Ohio.
 
JamesW said:
It depends on what the waterfall is.

For sheer descents, the flow requirements are about 9 to 20 gpm per linear foot.

We really need to know exactly what the waterfalls are and what the required flow rate is.
Click to expand...
Yes the CMP waterfalls are 30 Gpm for 36”. I have two 36” on one pump for a total of gpm.
the 48” sheer I have is also 60gpm for it alone. So I decided to run it on a separate pump.
 
mas985 said:
Not necessarily. How did you calculate the head loss? Head Loss <> Pipe Length but is related to it.

The rule of thumb for waterfalls is 5 GPM/ft so with 10' of waterfall, that is only 50 GPM. Head loss in 120' of a single 2" pipe at 50 GPM is ~4' of head. Upsize to 2.5" and the head loss drops to 1.6' of head. If you go with parallel runs, you drop it even further. Not outrageous numbers at all.
Click to expand...
My biggest issue is the pump is located about 5’ higher than the top of the pool due to the backyard slope. Pulling the water is going to be my largest issue rather than pushing it.
 
The waterfall guide suggests 1 gpm per inch.

That's 120 gpm total.

I would tie both lines together and run on one pump.

It's important that you don't use a single speed high head pump.

If you go with a single speed pump, use a water feature pump.

www.pentair.com

WaterFall Specialty Pumps

The Pentair Waterfall Specialty Pool Water Features Pump has a closed impeller, low-head pump ideal for water features such as fountains, waterfalls and other special pool features.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

I would suggest that you use an Intelliflo XF.

I would run 2" pipe to each sheer individually.

It's too late now, but you should have used at least 3" pipe for the suction for all 3.

Due to the higher elevation, I would have gone to 4" pipe for the suction.
 
JamesW said:
The waterfall guide suggests 1 gpm per inch.

That's 120 gpm total.

I would tie both lines together and run on one pump.

It's important that you don't use a single speed high head pump.

If you go with a single speed pump, use a water feature pump.

www.pentair.com

WaterFall Specialty Pumps

The Pentair Waterfall Specialty Pool Water Features Pump has a closed impeller, low-head pump ideal for water features such as fountains, waterfalls and other special pool features.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

I would suggest that you use an Intelliflo XF.

I would run 2" pipe to each sheer individually.

It's too late now, but you should have used at least 3" pipe for the suction for all 3.

Due to the higher elevation, I would have gone to 4" pipe for the suction.
Click to expand...
So I did run a 2” pipe ran to each sheer individually already. The bigger issue is the suction. I have 4 main drains on 2” pipe. Could I combine the suction at the pump?
 
Do you have 2 separate 2" pipes that are connected to 2 separate sets of 2 main drains?

If yes, I would combine them at the pump.

The 5' elevation adds 5 feet of head loss to the suction.

For (2) 2" pipes combined carrying 120 gpm, the dynamic head loss is about 7.5 feet.

So, that's 12.5 feet total head loss for the suction.

I would use an Intelliflo XF for both sets of sheers.
 

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