Master Spas Design Defect?

[Methuselah]

Couple days ago we changed temperature setting from 100 to 97. It's getting some morning sun on the opposite side of the equipment cabinet and sits at 99. Filtering runs one pump for 6 hours total at 660 watts.

I'm thinking the two vents on each side of the equipment cabinet are insufficient so the motor is warming the plumbing? It's been 90 outside.

Is this typical for Master Spas or is it quality downgrades (they used to use Waterway pumps and jets until recently)?

 

[cranbiz]

While there are many pro's that don't think much about Master Spa (despite one Canadian shill), Master is seeing the same supply chain issues that all manufacturers are seeing. I know that Artesian is temporarily using LX pumps and Gecko controls in some of their lower end lines now because they can't get Waterways pumps and Balboa controls. Marquis is delaying manufacture of certain tubs due to not being able to get a constant supply of parts for MicroSilk, Bullfrog has supply issues, etc. It's all over the industry.

I'm not a fan of Master Spa but can't blame them for part shortages which are causing all manufacturers to change components mid stream or not ship product at all.

 

[RDspaguy]

Your problem is not the spa, it's the ambient temp, run time, and sunshine. This can, and does, happen with any brand.
Also, the spa has no way to cool itself other than ambient air. Once hot, it's designed to stay that way.

 

[Methuselah]

So you're suggesting the LX motor is running hotter than the Waterways would have and they just threw it in there without regard to verifying it would perform satisfactorily. Sorry to disagree with you and I hope you do not take offense (none intended, I appreciate your response) - however, if the change screws up the product I believe blame rests firmly with the company.

When I got the hot tub hooked up, I ordered two low-speed (meaning quiet), ball bearing 120V pancake fans to vent the equipment cabinet. I had seen that they went to junk motors and wanted to do something to help make them last longer, but have not gotten around to pulling the panel back off to see if there's going to be room to mount them yet. Been wiring up a gazebo over the tub, and next need to do some plumbing and add either a tank (or tankless) heater for outdoor shower first.

At least now I know what happened, perhaps it will drop and still be manageable (read sanitary) if I put the filter cycles back to 2 hours each. I don't think I can set the start times for coolest parts of the day.

Any suggestions on how to drop the temperature are welcomed!!!

 

[Methuselah]

Your problem is not the spa, it's the ambient temp, run time, and sunshine. This can, and does, happen with any brand.
Also, the spa has no way to cool itself other than ambient air. Once hot, it's designed to stay that way.

Didn't see your response until I replied on the LX motors ... suspected the situation was not unique to my unit, much appreciated

Do you think vent fans (if I have room for them) to pull air across the motors when they are running will help?

 

[RDspaguy]

So you're suggesting the LX motor is running hotter than the Waterways would have and they just threw it in there without regard to verifying it would perform satisfactorily.

No, I'm suggesting the sun is shining on the spa and causing it to overheat.

Any suggestions on how to drop the temperature are welcomed!!!

Add some water, or freeze some water bottles.

 

[Methuselah]

@RDspaguy, first comment/question was directed to @cranbiz before you entered the thread. I definitely accept your experience and reply, "Your problem is not the spa, it's the ambient temp, run time, and sunshine. This can, and does, happen with any brand."

Your suggestion to freeze some water bottles sounds good but do you think it would be an uphill battle with the heat from the motors running filter cycles? Do you think it would make any difference if I put pancake fans over the vent grates? I'm not sure there would be room to do that but perhaps Master Spas would sell me a new panel or two and I could "move" the holes?

I reckon they will be unsympathetic to a request for service over this issue - it's only been in operation 8 weeks now and it just got hot enough outside to turn it down from 100 (and thus discover the "issue").

We do keep frozen water bottles in the freezer and I will throw in one or two and see if that "fixes" it, thanks again @RDspaguy!

Methuselah

 

[Methuselah]

Went to check on it this AM, it was at the new 97 setpoint. The cabinet vent fans are still on the back burner though.

 

[cranbiz]

@RDspaguy, first comment/question was directed to @cranbiz before you entered the thread. @RDspaguy!

Nowhere in my comments did I say anything about LX pumps running hotter than Waterways pumps. I have no idea how you got that conclusion. What I said is that there is a serious supply chain shortage and that Master appears to have done what other Spa manufacturers have done, which is to substitute in available components in order to keep shipping product.

I didn't offer an opinion as to why your Spa wasn't reaching the new, lower setpoint. @RDspaguy offered an opinion, which is most likely the true cause. Chances are a Waterways pump wouldn't have changed what you experienced.

LX pumps, while a Chinese component, are actually a decent pump and used by many manufacturers.

As I said before, I'm NOT a Master Spa fan, I own an Artesian and bought it because it offered the things I felt were important as far as quality and construction. It fit my available space and passed the wet test for both my wife and myself. The Master Spa didn't. I don't generally recommend Master Spa and don't defend them however, in this case, they aren't doing anything different than everyone else.

 

[Timmbo23]

It’s called “thermal creep”…….hot tubs are designed to retain heat. It is a drawback in warmer months but saves energy which is incredibly important when meeting energy requirements this day in age.
From Vita Spa website:

Overheating Water in Your Spa​

Potential Cause: Summer temperatures could be making your hot tub water too hot
Potential Solutions: Your spa is manufactured with energy-efficient components and systems that capture heat generated by the equipment, then transfer that heat back to the spa water. In warmer weather, or in situations with extended run times, Thermal Creep may occur.

Thermal Creep: a condition whereby the actual water temperature is higher than the set temperature. To manage Thermal Creep, you can:

Vent your cover. Newer covers have removable center seal padding. To remove this padding, open the Velcro on one side of the vinyl pouch and slide out the white padding.
If your spa does not have removable center seal padding, you may instead place a folded cloth about 3/4” (2cm) thick under all four corners of the cover before you lock it down.
Open the cover at night to quickly cool down the water if needed.

FUN TIP: Fill 3 or 4 empty gallon milk jugs with water and freeze them. Place them in your hot tub a few minutes before you want to use it. This will cool it down several degrees relatively quickly. After you are done, put them back in the freezer so they are ready for your next soak.

 

[RDspaguy]

would be an uphill battle with the heat from the motors running filter cycles?

Shorter filter cycles will help, but most brands will disable filter cycles automatically if it exceeds set temp by 3 degrees or so.

Do you think it would make any difference if I put pancake fans over the vent grates?

Not much.

perhaps Master Spas would sell me a new panel

You'll never believe what they cost.

which is to substitute in available components in order to keep shipping product.

While I don't doubt this could happen, they don't need any supply chain issues to switch brands. Manufacturers do it all the time, and buy in bulk from whoever gives them the best deal.