Jandy JXI400N - Trouble Air

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Sorry to be late to this party. Read through this thread quickly and see you replaced the heat exchanger bundle and I definitely think that was wise. I've read about water in the tub causing several errors. As James pointed out the only way to get water in there is a tube leak or back flow through the vent. It's almost always a tube leak. Your tube bundle looks pretty bad. The air flow switch is difficult to bypass. The easiest way I found to do it was to jump LV to the terminal on the Fenwal after the fan starts. Of course do this only momentarily to listen for the gas valve to close. The ignition cycle requires a certain amount of time where it detects airflow through the fire box to reduce the chance of an explosive mixture so you may have to wait a few second. One thing I noticed in your video is the single flash of the fenwal occurs before the fan is shut down. I've never seen this before. Could be one of those weird things that happens with water in the firebox. Sorry this is so late of response and I hope it's helpful. To check the air switch put an ohmmeter on the contacts and gently blow on the hose. It should change state with only a slight puff across the tube. Also be sure the tube connections are not cracked or obstructed. Doesn't take much and mud-dobbers seem to like them. Lastly, on the hose that connects underneath the fan casting make sure it is connected. It's very easy to unintentionally have it pull off when you reconnect the gas union.

I feel your pain when I look at your heater all torn apart... brings back visceral feelings of "it's you against me and I'm GOING TO WIN!" I did eventually with huge help from James, Allen and others. But it was very painful. Just keep this in mind. The parts were expensive but beating it was priceless!

I hope this helps.

Chris
 
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ajw22 said:
See how it feels once it dries out. Is it firm or crumbling?

What does new insulation cost?
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It's $150 for a set. It looks fine except it is wet. I am drying it now in the sun I'll see what it looks like. It's been leaking for awhile so the lower pad has been wet anyway. Didn't seem to bother it I suspect when it was running it boiled off all the water and dried the pads out.
 
PoolGate said:
Lol me too. Do you think drying out the insulation and reusing it is ok?
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You might try to bake it in an oven with door cracked open. I seem to recall it was important that it provides good insulation for the box and the area around the igniter plus the cylindrical burner tube. Don't recall that price but then again I never thought I'd pay over $90 for a sheet of plywood either!

Chris
 
When I lifted up the heat shield it broke apart. So I just went ahead and ordered a new set. So far this is costing a lot. :mad::mad:

Heat Exchanger: $860
Gasket Kit: $80
VersaFlow (upgrade): $170
Thermostat: $60
Refractory Kit (heat shields): $130
Total $1300
 
For what it's worth, I had a very costly exercise too but mine was a pre-covid lightning strike plus some additional self-inflicted damage. Total was about $1000. But the unit worked perfectly after and is still going strong. A local repair guy wouldn't touch it just wanted to replace it. So I think it was money well spent... plus I beat the $*** thing!

Chris
 

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This is exactly why no service person would do a rebuild.

You spend more than a thousand dollars on parts and 10 to 20 hours on labor chasing down parts and rebuilding all with no guarantee that the heater will actually work when you get it all together.

If it doesn’t work, the service person loses everything in parts and labor because the customer is not going to pay $3,000.00 in parts and labor for an old rebuilt heater that doesn’t even work.

Even if it does work, the customer does not want to spend $3,000.00 for an old rebuilt heater.
 
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JamesW said:
This is exactly why no service person would do a rebuild.

You spend more than a thousand dollars on parts and 10 to 20 hours on labor chasing down parts and rebuilding all with no guarantee that the heater will actually work when you get it all together.

If it doesn’t work, the service person loses everything in parts and labor because the customer is not going to pay $3,000.00 in parts and labor for an old rebuilt heater that doesn’t even work.

Even if it does work, the customer does not want to spend $3,000.00 for an old rebuilt heater.
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Yes agreed. If it was any more than I am already spending I would have just bought a new Pentair 400BTU heater. Not Jandy since they won't sell to me. But we are still talking $3500 for a new unit. This one looks great other than the heat exchanger. All parts look new and no signs of any issues. No corrosion at all on anything. I sure hope it stays that way!

I think conventional wisdom says if the repair is more than 40% of the new price, buy a new one. I am still below that. (the VersaFlow doesn't count as it is an upgrade that I don't really need). I also just cut the price in half for the refractory since I went ahead and just ordered the generic sheets for $75.
 
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PoolGate said:
I think conventional wisdom says if the repair is more than 40% of the new price, buy a new one.
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A service person has to charge at least $100.00 per hour to remain profitable.

This includes travel time to and from the job, time ordering parts, time travelling to go get ordered parts etc.

However, it is difficult to tell a customer that you are charging $800.00 for the eight hours you spent researching the parts, ordering the parts, waiting for them to come in etc. and for the 3 trips back and forth to get everything put together.

If the customer does not see you on their property actually working, they don’t think they should pay you for your time.

For example, if the service person has to drive to a supply place and it takes 1.5 hours, will the customer be ok being invoiced for the time?

For your time, you have to decide how much your time is worth.

If you did an accurate accounting of exactly how much time you spend on the rebuild, most people will significantly underestimate the actual time.
 
PoolGate said:
I think conventional wisdom says if the repair is more than 40% of the new price, buy a new one.
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My conventional wisdom does not apply to a leaking gas heater exchanger. I agree with JamwsW.

Leaking heat exchanger = new heater.

I hope your heater gives you another 5 years when you get the parts in.
 
ajw22 said:
My conventional wisdom does not apply to a leaking gas heater exchanger. I agree with JamwsW.

Leaking heat exchanger = new heater.

I hope your heater gives you another 5 years when you get the parts in.
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The heat exchanger is readily available and not hard to replace. You could do it start to finish in 2 hours. Maybe less. It is $2500 less than a new heater.
 
PoolGate said:
You could do it start to finish in 2 hours.
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Does that include all of the time doing research and ordering parts and supplies?

Maybe someone who has done it before and who has all of the parts, tools, supplies etc. could do it in 2 hours, but a first time person is going to take a lot longer than 2 hours.

If a service person does the rebuild, then the customer is going to expect a warranty or guaranty of at least 6 months.

Any problems in the first six months, the customer is going to call and complain that they just spent $3,000.00 on the rebuild and now the heater is not working correctly and you need to come out and fix it for free.

It does not matter if the problem is unrelated to the rebuild, the customer still expects a warranty regardless of if you promised a warranty or not.

It does not matter is the problem is due to low gas pressure or a defective part that was not even touched.
 
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It’s true, there isn’t any money replacing a heat exchanger. You also don’t know what else you’ll find when you start tearing into it, and the customer will call with any little problem unrelated to the replacement. It would take 30 mins to replace the heater with the same unit. But if it was my heater and I knew the history of it, I would grab some beer and change heat exchanger.
 
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JamesW said:
Does that include all of the time doing research and ordering parts and supplies?

Maybe someone who has done it before and who has all of the parts, tools, supplies etc. could do it in 2 hours, but a first time person is going to take a lot longer than 2 hours.
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I am talking about a professional. Not me. A professional should know what he needs and how much. But I am not saying this is worth getting done professionally. If I was unable to do this myself, I would most likely get a new heater. This is $1k all day long for labor making this job at least $2500.
 
At the end of the day, it's a judgment call on doing what one feels is the best choice.

Different reasonable people will have different opinions.

Only when the heater is actually up and running can you really decide if it was worth doing or not.

You still do not know if it is going to fire up and work correctly when you get it all put together.
 

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