Iron stains AA plus Metal Magic?

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markayash said:
I have a question, to remove the iron from the water using metal remover and something like fiber filter is it best to have low chlorine or high?
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You want to have the iron in solution for it to be filtered. Chlorine level does not matter. You want lower pH as high pH causes iron to come out of solution and deposit on surfaces.

A sequestering agent may help keep iron in solution and precipate so it can be filtered.

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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ajw22 said:
You want to have the iron in solution for it to be filtered. Chlorine level does not matter. You want lower pH as high pH causes iron to come out of solution and deposit on surfaces.

A sequestering agent may help keep iron in solution and precipate so it can be filtered.

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
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Thanks, I goofed and let my PH get high which probably caused it to return. That makes sense now.
Lesson learned.
 
Hi, great timing. I was planning to update this week. I do have some very minor iron stains (haven't confirmed with aspirin but exactly the same appearance in exactly the same spots. They are much less pronounced and may not even show up in a photo very well. I did find tiny particles in the polyfil that looked like rust when magnified but didn't test to prove it. I have enough AA for another treatment so I plan to redo this exactly like before but in addition to the polyfil I will add a CUlator packet. I'm also looking into the idea of creating a bed of strong cationic resin that could be used to remove the iron once and for all. We use cationic and anionic resins in chemical plants to create super pure water for high pressure steam systems. They're also used in residential water treatment systems so this should be pretty easy to do. I know the easiest way may be to just refill but I'd like to avoid this. More to come on this resin concept later.

Chris
 
markayash said:
If I do a AA treatment and then add Metal Magic or Jacks will polyfill remove the iron? Confused it metal magic helps polyfill work or hurts it
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I think it does.. and that is what I am trying to figure out for sure. I want to get the Iron out of my pool.. not just sequester it for later. I have used polyfill to remove Iron from my water when it turned green, once. It appears AA does the best job of cleaning stains. But I've not gotten a definitive explanation of what happens to the iron that reacts with AA to clean the surface stains. Is that filterable with polyfill or something else? Does the MM react with it? It seems like everyone does everything in an attempt to cover all the bases. @setsailsoon has done the best job of documenting the process, hence the reason I am following his thread.
 
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mguzzy said:
I think it does.. and that is what I am trying to figure out for sure. I want to get the Iron out of my pool.. not just sequester it for later. I have used polyfill to remove Iron from my water when it turned green, once. It appears AA does the best job of cleaning stains. But I've not gotten a definitive explanation of what happens to the iron that reacts with AA to clean the surface stains. Is that filterable with polyfill or something else? Does the MM react with it? It seems like everyone does everything in an attempt to cover all the bases. @setsailsoon has done the best job of documenting the process, hence the I am following his thread.
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I agree, it's more than a little frustrating the way this explained on MM's website. I'm inferring they mean that as you raise pH the iron that's in solution from reaction with MM is changed back to an insoluble form that then precipitates and is then trapped in the filter. Inferring is one step away from assuming and we all know what happens with that. Sounds pretty hokey to me but who knows? Whatever happened in my case it wasn't complete. So this time I'll use the CUlator which appears to be cationic resin with a super high price tag. If that works I'll play around with the resin. I like the resin approach because non of it is soluble in water, it's actually made of plastic-like beads that don't dissolve. It just is created with strong negative charged particles that like up with the iron. In boiler feed water applications it's regenerated with strong acids and caustic solutions. For pool operations the iron levels are so low that it's more practical to just throw it out which is how the iron is ultimately removed.

Chris
 

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My pool was doing great until I let my PH go way up..GUessing it was around 8.5 or 9..
But what is strange is my cartridge filters were solid red and looked like rust. Didn't think much about it and tossed them since they were getting old..I mean the worst I had ever seen them ever.
Then I noticed Iron stains returning..

Hoping the High PH helped my filter trap more iron..My goal is the get it out of the water!

I will do another AA treatment in a few weeks and debating raising PH up when I add MM and see if the filter catchs more
 
Mark,

Your pH excursion almost certainly made things worse. For now the only thing I can suggest is to do the TFP aa treatment and use a CUlator afterwards. I hope a cationic bed will prove out to work.

Chris
 
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Also, at some level water replace is definitely better. In my situation, there appears to be low levels of iron in fill water and it seems like removal with a resin bed might actually be the best way to do this.

Chris
 
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borjis said:
I too am about to do an AA treatment, when i open in two weeks.
Trace iron in my city water, same.

Its my understanding chlorine should be low. Putting in the AA will consume some also.
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That was my experience as well. I used the TFP recommended process including the recommended algaecide to avoid algae problems. If you do this don't use any other algaecide as they can have devastating consequences Everything went smooth as silk!

Chris
 
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@JoyfulNoise ...yo Matt. I have a chem question. I too am ramping up to do a Iron treatment.. but out of all the stuff I have read here I can't figure out what happens to the Iron that is reacted with the AA? Does the AA act like a sequestrant and the Iron stays in solution until the AA breaks down? Do other products like MM pull the iron from the AA? Can the Iron in a AA treated pool be filtered out with polyfill? And what happens to the residual AA, does it eventually breakdown? Its seems like most folks just do everything at once with no consideration that one process may affect the other. If you have answered this question before I haven't found it. thx
 
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Mg,

The way I understand this is the AA is a weak acid that reacts with the insoluble iron deposited on the surfaces of the pool to make it the soluble form by exchanging an electron. This makes it soluble in water and the metal sequestrant reacts to keep it in solution. As pH increases and/or FC increases, iron tends to convert to the non-soluble form and re-plate or form little iron particles that get removed in filters. What happens at this point seems a little unclear. Some say you need to keep adding sequestrant to keep the iron in solution and some seem to think certain sequestrants will "crystalize" the iron so it can be filtered out. Based on my one episode of this I think a little of both is true. Some seems to have been filtered out and some not because it's back to a lesser degree on my plaster. I'd like to find a good safe way to remove it while still in the soluble form and I think possibly CUlator or cationic resin is my best bet for the low levels of iron I experience. I'm sure @JoyfulNoise will correct any misconceptions I have and maybe give us hope there is a better way than a refill... especially since I think my refill water has a little iron anyway.

Chris
 
That sounds like as reasonable an explanation as I have heard. And I would conjecture that pH is the factor that tips it one way or another. The other thing I noticed is the AA instructions on the site say to get your pH down to 7.2 and the instructions for MM say to get your pH above 7.5. How did you reconcile that? because if I understand that wiki correctly when the pH goes back up the AA doesn't do as good a job of holding the Fe ions.
 

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