Intro/Outside Advice

LiquidFlame

Active member
Jul 1, 2023
27
Mesa, Arizona
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hello everyone,

New here, but not new to pools. I worked at a Leslies some time ago for a couple years and had a manager who actually understood water, so I had a good teacher. I purchased my first home here in Arizona last year, and it has a large pool with a diving board. Specs are down below. All equipment, including a pool resurface and new water, was installed in 2021 by the previous owners. At least that's what they told me (date on the filter is 2021).

I was confident I could handle it myself and spend the 30 minutes/week it required, especially since there's a Leslies Pro 1/2 mile away. Last summer was great, water got cloudy once or twice but nothing I couldn't handle. I was only adding a couple bags of shock and some acid every week (following weekly testing), and it saw maybe once a week use with a few parties over the course of the season. Summer came to a close and I backed off on the chems as it cooled down. I started a new job at the end of last year and admittedly got too busy to even think about the pool. So, when this summer came around, my lack of winter attention came back to haunt me via an extreme algae problem. Like, I've never seen an algae issue that bad.

With a relatively large pool at 30k gallons, it was quite a lengthy and expensive war to fight. Upwards of 30 pounds of cal hypo, a couple bottles of copper algaecide, vigorous brushing and vacuuming, needed some conditioner as well. Eventually the water turned back to blue, but was extremely cloudy. As in, maybe 1 foot visibility cloudy. I assumed it was remains of calcium due to all the shock I added and would clear up after some time running the pump at 2800rpm 24/7. Well, it didn't. I decided that it would be better to just hire a highly rated (on yelp) pool service to clear it up for me and maintain from there as I clearly don't have the attention to give it. After a month of them coming by, zero change in the clarity. I asked them about it and we decided to do a flocc treatment. I added the bottle and pump sat off for 4 days. I could very nearly see the bottom drain, as well as the caked on Crud at the bottom. Then after the pool guy came and vac'd it up, I went to about 2-3 feet visibility. Assuming during the vac process a lot of it got pushed back up into the water.

I've also noticed a lack of chlorine retention. They added 4 gal of liquid chlorine and 4lbs of trichlor yesterday morning, and this morning I'm only at 1ppm TAC. No green that I can tell. My most recent Leslies test (6/4) has my CYA at 71ppm, TDS at 2100ppm, and hardness at 344ppm. TDS maybe a bit high but nothing outrageous in my opinion. Pump currently runs for 4 hours at 2800rpm, 6 hours at 2200rpm, and 6 hours at 1300rpm.

After getting a little angry with the pool service because I told them mid last week that I have a party this weekend and it needed to be cleared up, they had the GM come out (the one who came yesterday) and added some stuff. Still no change this morning, so I emailed with some pics. They told me that my filter is "extremely undersized" and that switching to a cartridge filter would solve my problems. I think I need another flocc treatment since the first one helped a good amount, but they said that is not the right course of action.

My reason for posting here is, what do you guys think? Is my filter undersized? Do I need to swap out some water? Should I just do another flocc treatment (or two) and all will be well? This thing has been stressing me out for months, and its getting hot here in the desert, so I just want to use my pool without having to spend another $500+ on fixes or $1000+ on a new filter. I think I've provided all relevant information, but if I've forgotten something please let me know.

Thanks in advance and happy 4th weekend!
 

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A larger filter will not resolve the issues, don't waste your money on that.

You need a good test kit (see Newdude's link above) so we can see what's in the water. You may have sky high CYA and/or metals in the water from all those pool store potions that may require a partial water exchange before moving on to the
SLAM Process

Your story and how you arrived here is a common one.
 
Start with ordering a Tf-100/TF-Pro or Taylor K-2006C. We cannot advise you without accurate testing. Here is an article on the test kits Swimming Pool Test Kits Compared

For a pool your volume add 1.5 gallons of 10% LC/bleach (or the equivalent) daily until we have accurate test results back.

Everything starts with the water chemistry, and pool store or strip testing is inaccurate. Once you have solid test results we can help you get your pool clear in a matter of weeks. For the long term, without hundreds of dollars of expensive chemicals.

You’ve found a forum of top chefs ready to teach you to make gourmet meals. All you need is some good pans (test kit) and you’ll be eating the best meals for less than the McDonald’s you’ve been eating.

And sorry I’m sure the McDonald’s analogy stings a little bit since you worked at Leslie’s in the past. Not trying to offend, the pool store business model is just broken, by no fault of anyone in it unfortunately.
 
LF,

Unfortunately, your time spent as a Leslie's employee, has come back to haunt you... :mrgreen:

Almost everything that you have done, and almost all of the pool store magic chemicals that you have used, are not recommended by TFP. We just do things much differently than pool stores.

I suggest that you take a good read through our Pool School and see what we are all about.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Welcome! First step is to forget everything you learned from Leslie’s and your “pool service” company. Personally I’d fire the pool company immediately.

Unfortunately, (and obviously based on the condition of the pool) the money you spent thus far has mostly been money wasted. You’ve now found the right place to get your pool in tip-top shape.

 
Following for sure!!

Buy a test kit asap, one of the recommended ones. While you wait for it, fire pool guy. He, like a new filter, ain’t needed. Liquid chlorine additions daily as per post above until test kit arrives.

Once you post results from your test kit, you’ll get the advice you are looking for.

Welcome!! I wish my pool was 30k gal!!!
 
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Thanks for the replies/welcome everyone.

My time at Leslies was before any automated tests were implemented. Everything was done by hand and written on a sheet with a complete FAS/DPD kit. We had no magic chemicals to push on anyone, and even after reading through this forum/pool school, I still believe it was a good basis to learn from. We even had a version of SLAM that we prescribed to people with algae. Regardless, I'm sure not everything I learned/remember is perfect so I will continue reading and adjust my procedures as necessary.

I understand the current pool store hate, and I did not take part in any of their usual recommended chems. No "perfect weekly" or "algaecide maintenance," no magic chemicals. I took my water there when I need readings that my basic kit (TAC, FAC, and pH) cannot perform. I now know I should have my own test for everything and ordered a 2006C kit this morning. I never followed their recommendations either, I just got the numbers. My algae treatment was not at the recommendation of a store either. It was SLAM-adjacent, I think. I raised my TAC to ~25ppm (via cal hypo, I know...) along with an algaecide (again, I know...). I obviously didn't perform it correctly or most likely didn't maintain the level long enough. The algae went away, but the cloudiness remained.

I have also downloaded the PoolMath app and will begin to log once I receive my test kit (Thursday via Amazon). The calculator tells me I need 8 gallons of liquid (assuming my CYA is actually at 70ppm), so I'll be picking up 7 or 8 boxes of from my local Walmart. Never hurts to have extra on hand right?

As for the pool service, I think I may look into the addition of a SWG to ease my workload. I'm out of the house at 5:45am and sometimes don't get home until 8pm, so the pool falls down the to-do list most days. I definitely have the ability to maintain myself, but time/attention is my issue. Anything I can do to automate the repetitive aspects of my life is money well spent imo.

I'll report back when I have my test kit and can provide accurate results. All of the calculators are handy tools!
 
I definitely have the ability to maintain myself, but time/attention is my issue.
It takes a little bit of effort to become one with your pool, but once you know how it responds, it becomes second nature quick.
Then you'll just know what to do most days with a spot test every other day or even every 3 days.

That all said, you'd have to pry my SWG out of my cold dead hands. It currently saves me 2X to 3X the cost of liquid chlorine, but I'd *pay* 2X to 3X more for the convenience it provides.
 
You’re on the right track now that’s what matters!
As mentioned you may need to exchange some water as a slam with a cya of 70 or higher is an expensive venture.
Here’s the details on how to safely exchange water if that’s needed
(Check out the no drain exchange section 3.5)
Since you have used floc it’s possible it has gotten in your sand.
You may need to do a deep cleaning of the sand

After the slam is done a salt water chlorine generator is a great idea to relieve you of manually adding chlorine most of the time but you will still need to test & maintain all your parameters regularly. Unfortunately nothing is set it and forget it unless you don’t mind a swamp.
If you’re swg shopping you want to be sure to get one rated for at least 2x’s your pool’s volume- so that means a 60k rated system. That leaves you with pentair ic60 or one of the 60k rated circupool models as choices.
 
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Alright...
Got my test kit and tested a few things first.
FC: 1.8ppm
CC: 2.4ppm
CYA: 20ppm - The kit only goes as low as 30ppm, but I could still see the dot a bit so I'm assuming 20ppm. I did the test twice with different reagent bottles to make sure there weren't any errors. So I'm assuming that's at least part of my chlorine retention issue. I guess since I have to backwash regularly with the sand filter its just slowly creeped lower and lower since last summer?
pH: 7.6
TA: 125ppm
CH: 550ppm

My question to you guys is, should I get my CYA up to acceptable levels first and see if it clears up by just being able to hold chlorine? Or should I SLAM now while CYA is low, and then bring it up afterwards?
 
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My CYA is actually more like 20ppm. The kit only goes as low as 30ppm, but I could still see the dot a bit so I'm assuming 20ppm
20 and below is sketchy at best for the eyes to decipher so that's why the kits only go to 30 (20 for the other kit).

Add 10, give it time to register and retest. Repeat until you have a solid 30.
So I'm assuming that's at least part of my chlorine retention issue
It very well could have been all of it, which led to the algae bloom.

But no worries. With your test kit being the same as ours, it's like we are standing there beside you and we know what to do with your results. :) (I have no idea what to do with a poolstore 71 CYA. I would have told you to drain half the pool and it woulda been a big whoopsie)


Or should I SLAM now while CYA is low, and then bring it up afterwards?
SLAM needs 30 CYA to help retain more of all that chlorine you'll be adding. Get 10ppm of CYA going per PoolMath. You can count it as soon as its soaking, so your SLAM target is 12 FC.

The pool will tell you how often the FC needs replenishing. At first it has a healthy appetite so 2 to 3 hour testing is best. If it holds longer, great. If not, it will progressively hold longer as the SLAM plays out.

It's a 'process', but follow it to a T and you'll be TFP clear in no time.
SLAM Process
 
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20 and below is sketchy at best for the eyes to decipher so that's why the kits only go to 30 (20 for the other kit).

Add 10, give it time to register and retest. Repeat until you have a solid 30.

It very well could have been all of it, which led to the algae bloom.

But no worries. With your test kit being the same as ours, it's like we are standing there beside you and we know what to do with your results. :) (I have no idea what to do with a poolstore 71 CYA. I would have told you to drain half the pool and it woulda been a big whoopsie)



SLAM needs 30 CYA to help retain more of all that chlorine you'll be adding. Get 10ppm of CYA going per PoolMath. You can count it as soon as its soaking, so your SLAM target is 12 FC.

The pool will tell you how often the FC needs replenishing. At first it has a healthy appetite so 2 to 3 hour testing is best. If it holds longer, great. If not, it will progressively hold longer as the SLAM plays out.

It's a 'process', but follow it to a T and you'll be TFP clear in no time.
SLAM Process
Luckily I had an unopened bag of granular stuff in my shed, so I added half of that to hopefully bring it to just above 30. I'll let it stir up and report back tomorrow.
 
Luckily I had an unopened bag of granular stuff in my shed, so I added half of that to hopefully bring it to just above 30. I'll let it stir up and report back tomorrow.
In the meantime, lower ph to 7.2
Then dose with liquid chlorine to reach 12ppm
(Slam level for cya of 30) to begin the
SLAM Process
FC/CYA Levels
Test fc & replenish it back to 12ppm every couple hours if you can but at least 3 or 4 times a day until you pass all 3 end of slam criteria .
 
FC: 1.8ppm

I really wish Taylor would change the directions included in the K-2006. Save on your reagents: use 10mL of pool water and a heaping "spoon" of powder. 1 drop = .5 FC. For example, 10 drops = 5 FC.
 
I really wish Taylor would change the directions included in the K-2006. Save on your reagents: use 10mL of pool water and a heaping "spoon" of powder. 1 drop = .5 FC.
You're forgetting Fluidra bought them.

New directions:

Fill 5 gallon bucket.
Add shovel of power
Each drop is .001 FC.
 
Seems I was heavy handed when adding yesterday.... CYA came up to about 45ppm, which is still in perfect range for standard operating procedures. Maybe I'm a bit under 30k gallons as well. Oh well.
SLAM target is 18ppm = 5 gallons liquid. Will add shortly and test/add a few times today since its hot (high of 108F today...).
 
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