Intellicenter Experts Needed -> Solar "ERR" But Not The Sensor

[matthewsunshineflorida]

TLDR: The intellicenter sensor ports are shorted together somehow, or the software/firmware inside needs to be reset.

We came out of Ian pretty fortunate here in Tampa, so I can't complain too much. However, the 12ga exterior wire I used for my solar sensor had its insulation ripped off and wire almost cut in half by a rogue tree branch - pretty surprising that there was no other apparent roof damage.

After removing the damaged part of the wire and re-splicing in the sensor, I assumed I was getting still "ERR" because the sensor was also destroyed, so I purchased a new one. However, when testing this new sensor hardwired directly into intellicenter, I get a quickly increasing temperature starting around 600 degrees, then 700, then "ERR." As before. My multimeter correctly shows around 1.2k ohms for the new sensor, and around 4.6k for the one on the roof (110 degrees).

Just for a sanity check, I tested the known working water and air sensors in the solar terminals and get the same error. I tested the new sensor in the water and air sensor terminals and get the proper temperature. With nothing connected, intellicenter settles to believe the temperature is around 85 degrees, which would indicate about 1k ohms, meaning the issue is in the solar terminals themselves as if they are somehow very nearly shorted together (far too little resistance). The resistance should be essentially infinite or at least as high as the 670k resistance in the chart, representing -50 degrees. So by the time you add the sensor, the resistance goes way down and the temperature is seen as impossibly high. I've reset it several times to no avail. I haven't yet performed a factory reset, only because I'm not sure how that would help and I have SO many schedules set up.

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

It occurred to me that if I could use the air sensor terminals for both solar and air, my problem would be effectively solved without a new board: The solar will turn on if the roof gets hot enough, and if the roof is ever freezing, the area around the pool pump would be too and thus should turn on.

Any idea how to program Intellicenter to use that sensor for solar? Or how to possibly solder them together, while taking out whatever resistance measuring chip is not working properly?

For now, I have solar as a feature valve, and it's just scheduled to run from 11:30 to 6:30. So I wonder if the nodeJS pool controller could be programmed to turn it on/off via the "air" sensor, which I could plug the solar into? @MyAZPool - happen to know if this might be possible? I've been wanting to tackle the nodejs project for a while anyway.

 

[MyAZPool]

@matthewsunshineflorida

I don't have solar so I really don't know much about it at all.
Regarding your question as to whether njspC could do that. Not really sure.
Let's ping @rstrouse or @tagyoureit and see if they have some thoughts on the matter that may be able to assist you.
r.

 

[JamesW]

Can you show a picture of the connections?

 

[JamesW]

With nothing connected, intellicenter settles to believe the temperature is around 85 degrees, which would indicate about 1k ohms, meaning the issue is in the solar terminals themselves as if they are somehow very nearly shorted together (far too little resistance).

85 degrees Fahrenheit is 8,250 ohms.

Check the DC voltage between the connections for each sensor (air with sensor connected, water with sensor connected and solar with sensor disconnected).

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/automation/intellicenter/manuals---user-docs/intellicenter-installation-guide.pdf

 

[rstrouse]

For now, I have solar as a feature valve, and it's just scheduled to run from 11:30 to 6:30. So I wonder if the nodeJS pool controller could be programmed to turn it on/off via the "air" sensor, which I could plug the solar into? @MyAZPool - happen to know if this might be possible? I've been wanting to tackle the nodejs project for a while anyway.

Yes you can create a workflow rule in njsPC that can activate that feature circuit based on the air temp, body status, and setpoint. However, it won't override the IntelliCenter function that continues to throw the solar temp error. This means that it will not change the solar heating function of the OCP but it will still engage/disengage the solar when it is needed.

 

[1poolman1]

It occurred to me that if I could use the air sensor terminals for both solar and air, my problem would be effectively solved without a new board: The solar will turn on if the roof gets hot enough, and if the roof is ever freezing, the area around the pool pump would be too and thus should turn on.

Any idea how to program Intellicenter to use that sensor for solar? Or how to possibly solder them together, while taking out whatever resistance measuring chip is not working properly?

For now, I have solar as a feature valve, and it's just scheduled to run from 11:30 to 6:30. So I wonder if the nodeJS pool controller could be programmed to turn it on/off via the "air" sensor, which I could plug the solar into? @MyAZPool - happen to know if this might be possible? I've been wanting to tackle the nodejs project for a while anyway.

Can't do that, sorry. You need all three for proper operation. You can lose the solar sensor and only lose solar automation (generally) but will get errors if the air temp sensor is missing, damaged, incorrectly installed. On many systems, if the air temp sensor has an issue, the system will go into "freeze protection" mode just to be safe.

 

[guinness]

I haven't yet performed a factory reset, only because I'm not sure how that would help and I have SO many schedules set up.

You should be able to backup your config to a USB thumb drive.

I've been wanting to tackle the nodejs project for a while anyway.

Do you have the High Power Wireless or the EnGenius WiFi? I'm using njsPC with my IC and can give you some pointers.

 

[JamesW]

Check the front and back of the contacts to see if there is anything bridging the contacts causing a short.

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

85 degrees Fahrenheit is 8,250 ohms.

Check the DC voltage between the connections for each sensor (air with sensor connected, water with sensor connected and solar with sensor disconnected).

Check the front and back of the contacts to see if there is anything bridging the contacts causing a short.

I did confirm all sensors are working by verifying proper resistance with them disconnected and DC voltage when connected. The solar terminals have no voltage across them regardless of connection status, but the sensor wires only show resistance when not connected - both of which make sense given the terminals themselves seem to be partially shorted. The connections are made with no insulation under the screw and no excess wire outside so there is no risk of short from the wires and I'm positive it's a solid connection to the screw terminals. I did take the board off of the main one underneath it and don't see anything obvious - but I can't see inside/under the screw connector parts to see if there's something loose in that part of it. Wondering if I should use some isopropyl alcohol on the solder joints and in the screw connectors - try to get a better look inside it maybe.

Yes you can create a workflow rule in njsPC that can activate that feature circuit based on the air temp, body status, and setpoint. However, it won't override the IntelliCenter function that continues to throw the solar temp error. This means that it will not change the solar heating function of the OCP but it will still engage/disengage the solar when it is needed.

THIS seems like it would be a fully functional workaround - thank you for letting me know this is possible! This configuration seems to have no real downside other than the historical graph showing air temp instead of solar, unless I'm missing something. It would also allow me to run it in concert with the gas heater, since it's a generic valve instead of type heater. I want solar running year round whenever there's heat until it hits the set point, regardless of what other features I have on - so this could be a "set and forget" solution.

You should be able to backup your config to a USB thumb drive.


Do you have the High Power Wireless or the EnGenius WiFi? I'm using njsPC with my IC and can give you some pointers.

That's very helpful, I'll do that today and factory reset it to see if that somehow fixes the issue. No wifi - I ran two cat6 through the attic to the pad, figuring I'd eventually do a raspberry pi. I'd love any pointers you think would be helpful - node js seems like a worthwhile thing to do regardless of this issue. Does njsPC mean "PC" as opposed to running locally on the rbpi?

 

[rstrouse]

I don't have the board in front of me but the sensor connections most likely have a voltage divider circuit connected to one side of each probe pair. This consists of 10k worth of resistors. These would be the likely suspects given 0v on the solar terminal. Test each resistor value and look for one that is open. Hopefully these are easily identified from the traces on the board.

 

[guinness]

No wifi - I ran two cat6 through the attic to the pad, figuring I'd eventually do a raspberry pi. I'd love any pointers you think would be helpful - node js seems like a worthwhile thing to do regardless of this issue.

You have a couple of options if wired. You can either run the RS485 data lines over your CAT6 cable or use a RS485 to Ethernet converter which I use and documented in the following post. You can PM me for further details or questions.

Wiring Elfin-EE11 to Pentair IntelliCenter

Inspired by the post wiring Elfin-EW11 to Pentair Easytouch I'm documenting my installation of the Elfin-EE11 which is the ethernet version. I did this since the IntelliCenter came with an EnGenius ENS202EXT bridge to connect to the internet and came with a spare ethernet port. I opted to...

www.troublefreepool.com

Does njsPC mean "PC" as opposed to running locally on the rbpi?

njsPC is an abbreviation for NodeJS Pool Controller, so no "PC" required

 

[matthewsunshineflorida]

@rstrouse @guinness @tagyoureit

I'm realizing that outsourcing some logic to njspc is potentially more powerful than I knew - so I have a brain teaser for you guys... My heater is a 400k BTU natural gas unit. Because my spa is only 500-600 gallons, it heats about a degree per minute - which is fantastic when the water is cold and I want to get in quick. However, my equipment pad is around the other side of the house, so by the time the set supply temperature gets to the sensor, there's already enough heat in the return lines to go over the setpoint by around 3 degrees. This is actually pretty noticeable, especially when it's a sunny 65 and you only want the spa to 95 but it hits 98. I sometimes have to go into the app and when it gets within a few degrees, turn it off.

This effect is predictable and consistent, so I'm wondering if I could write an adjustment to the actual heating algorithm like this:

If mode = spa & (waterTemp = (Setpoint - 3))
{
Setpoint = Setpoint - 3
Wait 180000 ms
Setpoint = Setpoint + 3
}

Unfortunately, this would only address the initial heat up. When it drops a degree below the set point, it would still overheat it by a few degrees. Therefore, I'd need something else as well like:
If mode = spa & (waterTemp = (Setpoint - 1))
{
Wait 60000ms
Setpoint = Setpoint - 3
Wait 180000ms
Setpoint = Setpoint + 3
}

Is this doable? I had some landscaping projects and then we all got sick (our baby girl has RSV at 4 months old which has really been hard) so I haven't gotten around to setting up the rbpi but I have everything delivered and ready to get to work on it this week.

 

[rstrouse]

I hope you baby girl is on the mend. Yes you can make that logic work in the rules interface. Unfortunately IntelliCenter does not let you control the delta temps for short cycles. Are you using the RS485 interface for MasterTemp? If you open a discussion on the repo we can hook you up on the script to affect this rule.

 

[JamesW]

Can you put the sensor closer to the spa?